I just don't get the hype...

#21HayateTokidoki(Topic Creator)Posted 4/16/2014 1:35:08 AM
Nice to see someone bring up Rule of Rose though! There's an interesting game, and a game that I like despite it's pretty awkward gameplay.


Rule of Rose is probably my second favorite game on PS2 (Odin Sphere being number 1). The atmosphere was amazing, the soundtrack was perfect, the story was excellent and had a number of deeper layers to it if you cared to explore and really dig into the meaning of some of the events (not to mention the huge implications of the game's last 5-10 minutes on the rest of the game's events).

And while the gameplay was very, very rough, I felt like the devs somewhat unintentionally got it just right. Considering the story and the character you played as (she would obviously be completely inept when it came to fighting), the crappy controls and awkward movements made it feel like a more realistic portrayal. Again, I think that was completely unintentional, but it happened to be the right aspect of the game to do poorly.
#22Hotel_SecurityPosted 4/17/2014 2:57:23 PM
for someone who finds the game so boring he does seem to enjoy talking about it.

Eh, it’s a classic case on Gamefaqs. Guy hears hype about a game and despite not researching what it’s like, just picks it up and plays it. He dislikes the game and he’s angry with himself that he was fooled by the hype but he, of course, can’t blame himself for the mistake...he has to blame the game. So he decides that he needs to “get back” at the game and thus targets the fanbase…so he picks a message board and just makes sure to remind folks that he hates the game in EVERY post. Because, to him, annoying the fanbase is the only way he can get some sort of retribution for him not liking the game. He makes some excuse on how he’s “warning other people about it” but everyone knows that’s BS and he ends up just being a troll. Seen it before, will see it again.

Talking about it is a hell of a lot more interesting than playing it.

I’ve seen your posts. This is a lie.

I've articulated my points just fine. A refresher:

Yes, and I shot down many of these poor points earlier in the thread. Despite you seemingly accepting that, yes, you don’t get the game, you still linger on here to continue to rip on it and question those who like it.

This is funny because in my VERY first response to you, I posted this:

“This is because you dislike the game and don’t get it and it often drives people nuts when they dislike a game and see a bunch of other people who do like it. In fact, I’ve seen a number of these types of “explain to me why this game is good” posts and they’re often disguised as someone actually wanting answers but it’s usually the TC just being frustrated that they bought a game they disliked and wanting to rip on it. I fail to see why this post is anything else.”

It’s fun being right.

-It is visually dull for the most part.

This is completely subjective and a stupid argument because you’re rambling about graphics. Either way, the game looks fine. You’re either blind or looking for things to nitpick.

-The gameplay is incredibly dull.

You don’t get it.

You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it.

You don’t get it.

-There is no challenge

Oh, get the hell out of here. You seriously expected ANY challenge from this game? This is like watching Care Bears and complaining that there’s not enough violence. What an awful gripe. You really ARE gripping to find issues with this game.

-This isn't a big deal since you can just play offline, but the multiplayer was pointless in my opinion.

You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it. You don’t get it.

-There is no compelling reason to continue.

Awwww, does Haya need a nice shiny platinum trophy to get him to do things in a game? Or perhaps have gold pieces laying around to collect? Maybe find neat armor in a cave? Classic comment of an RPG casual. Can’t do anything in a game without the game giving you a reward?

I literally fell asleep while in the middle of playing this game. It was the middle of the afternoon.

I’d recommend laying off the drugs when you play video games. These things happen.
#23Hotel_SecurityPosted 4/17/2014 2:58:34 PM
So, what makes games enjoyable? Gameplay, visuals, audio, atmosphere, story, challenge...

Your definition of games is very limited in scope and this affects everything you say about this game. In other words, you don’t get it.

But it has to do more than just make you play it.

No, it bloody doesn’t have to do crap. Many gamers aren’t OCD kids with no attention spans who needs some fancy bell or whistle to be rewarded for them to accomplish anything in a game. It’s like playing the hardest mode on a game…there’s no reward for that in most games aside from a sense of accomplishment. Apparently you can’t fathom that.

You'll recall that the purpose of my post was to state that I don't get it.

Well, now that it’s been clearly established and this has been answered, so why are you still here? Seems to me like you just want to keep complaining about the game. Which I predicted, might I add…I knew what you were about before you did. Seen you before, will see you again.

However, conventional wisdom points to a few particular things that generally lead people to enjoy a specific medium

You really think any type of “conventional” thought applies to this game? What part of “you don’t get it” don’t you understand?

Fighting games - I like the challenge of mastering characters and battle systems and competing with other players.

Sounds casual.

RPGs - I like solid stories and character development.

Then why would you play RPGs? RPGs generally have the most clichéd, repetitive and generally awful storylines in all games. Just because there’s lots of dialogue does NOT make for a good story. Most RPG storylines are downright insulting, full of plot holes and full of characters who do things that normal people would never do. If you want either of those things, you shouldn’t be playing video games at all and should still with books, movies or a good TV show.

And character development? There’s nothing more overrated in games. I really need to see the grizzled war vet who deep down learns to love again? Or the spunky princess rebelling against her father who learns to get along with him during the game (as the king realizes he’s “been too tough” in the same scene)? Or the great swordsman who comes to terms with some awful tragedy in his past? Or the last survivor of an ancient race who realizes she’s not alone in the world because she’s made friends. Or all of them realizing they can do anything as long as they work together. All clichés and all disguised under hollow “character development.” Screw that…give me stubborn characters who never change if only because that’s more realistic.

Survival horror - I like the atmosphere and tension

Too bad that most “survival horror” games aren’t scary anymore. So much for that. Of course, if you really loved "atmosphere" you would have liked Journey...seems like you don't know what it actually means.
#24Hotel_SecurityPosted 4/17/2014 2:58:41 PM
It's not hard. I could do the same with any individual titles I enjoy.

Gotta say that was pretty poor. So you made my point. Others here have pointed out why they liked Journey and you’ve blown off those responses and still insist that folks can’t explain it, despite many here, including myself, pointing out why I like this game.

I've certainly disagreed with some of the assertions, but I assure you, my goal wasn't to just come in here and bash the game.

And yet that’s all you’ve done since coming here. And your original query has been answered many times. Again, why are you still here?

I actually really dislike the soundtrack, but that's just me trolling.

Fixed that for you.

I forgot all about it as soon as the game was over, and that's a sign the soundtrack failed.

I do that with 99% of the games I play. Does that mean that all those soundtracks “failed?” Horrible logic. Game music is to provide a mood to a game, not to leave some deep impression. Do you watch action movies and remember all the music that was playing during the action scenes?...Of course not…it’s there to compliment the action you’re seeing. Games work the same way.

Rule of Rose is probably my second favorite game on PS2 (Odin Sphere being number 1).

Odin Sphere!? You mean you love repeating the same sections over and over, fighting the same bosses over and over (not to mention the Queen of the Dead and her wonderful slowdown), the fact that every level plays the exact same, leveling up all of the same characters in the exact same way from scratch in each chapter, or that it’s essentially the same enemies in every chapter?

The only reason you’d lift Odin Sphere so highly is because you clearly make the mistake of valuing storyline above anything else in a game. Odin Sphere does it better than most games but it can’t excuse the myriad of gameplay flaws. Clearly you didn’t like Journey because it didn’t have a storyline. That really clears things up. You’re a casual who can’t handle any game that doesn’t tell you a deep and clichéd storyline because you’re apparently not aware that other media does storyline a lot better.

And while the gameplay was very, very rough, I felt like the devs somewhat unintentionally got it just right. Considering the story and the character you played as (she would obviously be completely inept when it came to fighting), the crappy controls and awkward movements made it feel like a more realistic portrayal.

Lovely. You take a game with awful mechanics but say you love it because…wait for it…storyline. I’d say we figured you out nicely. No storyline? He hates it. Attempt at an awful, clichéd story? He loves it. You really DON’T get it.

but it happened to be the right aspect of the game to do poorly.

Oh, so the game was great despite having broken and sluggish gameplay. Lovely.
#25SohienPosted 4/18/2014 1:22:33 PM
Um, I don't really know about others, but it made me feel like I actually was the character. Somehow I just understood his feelings - it was like life itself. I was in the desert, alone, and sometimes I met others. Sometimes they were only passing by, sometimes they were with me on my whole journey. I could relate to that. Made me feel like we were insignificant beings in the desert, but at the same time we were part of it. It made me feel at peace. :)
I guess it really depends on your personality and life experiences whether you like this game or not. I can understand your opinion, one of my friends has fallen asleep while I was playing, because she found it that boring. She prefers good stories too. I thought we were similar, but looks like I'm more of an atmosphere person. :)
However, I respect you, TC, for trying to understand what others like in this game, and not just downright dismissing it as a piece of dung. ^^
#26Flipsider99Posted 4/22/2014 1:41:04 PM
Hotel_Security posted...
he has to blame the game. So he decides that he needs to “get back” at the game and thus targets the fanbase…so he picks a message board and just makes sure to remind folks that he hates the game in EVERY post.


You NEVER have the right to presume you know someone else's motivations! What you're doing here is demonizing, trying to paint an unflattering picture of someone in order to discredit someone. That's an underhanded tactic, unfair, and incredibly rude. In all honesty I am not posting here to annoy anyone. I'm aware that my opinions will annoy many people, sure, but I believe in telling the truth and I like to seek out people who agree, like Hayate. And I do genuinely enjoy talking about this game.

On this forum, I've discussed this game with several people who disagree with me, but whom I still find to be polite, pleasant individuals. Please consider elevating your behavior up to their level, and I would gladly consider talking to you as well.
#27Hotel_SecurityPosted 4/25/2014 2:37:52 PM
You NEVER have the right to presume you know someone else's motivations!

Ooo…looks like I hit a nerve there. I assume I was pretty close with my assumption.

And, of course, I have “the right,” whatever that means. I’ve been around these boards long enough to see a ton of little trolls like you who hang around the board of games they hate just so they can harass and annoy those who like the game and to “warn” others to not play it, like you somehow believe that you convincing someone else not to play it will “hurt” the game. It’s typical buyer’s remorse…you’re angry that you were “fooled” by the hype and now you have to blame someone else for it. Heaven forbid you blame yourself, right?

There’s a very specific and exact set of traits that these people show and you fit every one of them. It’s very easy to make the conclusion I did from what I’ve observed from you here. All logical, really. No assumptions needed.

Even more evidence is me seeing you do the EXACT SAME THING on the Tomb Raider boards. You play a game, it’s not how you wanted it to be and you have to stick around and troll the game and its users and rip it in every post. So, in addition to my conclusions here, you have an obvious history of doing this before. Thank you and goodnight.

(On a side note, I caught you mentioning you never play “mainstream” games yet all I ever see you posting in are the boards of mainstream games. So silly. You try to position yourself as some gaming insider and savant and it’s all a fraud. Gotta stroke that ego, huh?)

What you're doing here is demonizing, trying to paint an unflattering picture of someone in order to discredit someone.

Unflattering? I don’t make judgment on if it’s good or bad…simply what it is. I’ll let you decide if you’re ashamed of what you are or not.

That's an underhanded tactic, unfair, and incredibly rude.

Unfair!? Bwahahaha. That’s rich. Don’t like your own medicine, sweety?

In all honesty I am not posting here to annoy anyone.

This is correct. You’re posting here to troll people. A mild difference, but noted.

I'm aware that my opinions will annoy many people, sure

Has nothing to do with your opinions since in most cases you don’t have one.

but I believe in telling the truth

(Calls it “my opinion”)
(Then claims that it’s “the truth” a sentence later)

Pick one. Only one.
#28Hotel_SecurityPosted 4/25/2014 2:37:58 PM
and I like to seek out people who agree

You like jumping on board a thread like this so you can attempt to get vindication for your awful and stupid opinions on this game and believe that pairing with someone else who also has awful and stupid opinions about this will somehow make your awful and stupid opinions more legitimate. It doesn’t. It’s also in an effort that you can spur the new user to continue to troll the game and do your work for you, also using him to align against others who may disagree with you. Typical mob mentality…seen it before, will see it again. Always cute when trolls get excited about another dissenter showing up.

And the fact that you’re acting like you’re some innocent here who’s “just stating your opinion” is laughable. You jumped into any thread here whether it was about the quality of the game at all and just HAD to get your one-line dig at the game…you do it constantly here. That’s not you just stating an opinion…that’s you needing to remind everyone in EVERY thread that you hate the game and think it sucks. It doesn’t have a place in a majority of the places you do it. That COD thread was even worse since you created a thread to troll Journey and COD at the same time (and boy, there’s nothing more tired than people ripping COD). Don’t sit here trying to play the victim.

What you do there is trolling since the ONLY reason you would do it is to annoy those who like the game. Just admit that you’re a troll and move on. Why deny what you are?

On this forum, I've discussed this game with several people who disagree with me, but whom I still find to be polite

They’re polite because they didn’t catch on to what you are and were trying to humor you. I figured you out and now you’re taking issue with me. I expected the reaction. I’m still being quite polite in everything I say here…I’m just stating how it is. Obviously I hit a kernel of truth or you wouldn’t have such a reaction.

Please consider elevating your behavior up to their level,

Oh? Should I start trolling the board to get to your level then?

and I would gladly consider talking to you as well.

Yes, because you didn’t do this at all with this post. And besides, you have nothing to say. I’ve already torn down all of your awful opinions in this thread here and you’ve had nothing to say in return. Mostly because you have nothing so you, as expected, just resorted to personal attacks. I’ve seen that a lot too.

(Of course, I assume this comment is a preemptive way for you to run away from this discussion so you’re pretending you’re doing it because I’m not polite. Nice excuse but no one will buy it. If you want to run, go ahead, but make sure you stick that tail between your legs first).
#29conduitPosted 4/26/2014 7:06:52 AM(edited)
-It is visually dull for the most part. There are parts that look nice in small doses, but the environments are incredibly bland (with the last level being the one possible exception) and the designs are simplistic.


this is a very vague subjective statement. why did you find the game visually dull or bland? what about the environments did you not like? which parts did you think looked nice in "small doses"? What to you would have made it look better? What generally are the kind of visuals you normally enjoy?


Personally I loved the environments in the game and have always enjoyed natural, organic landscapes, but I also enjoyed the juxtaposition between the natural landscapes and the monuments and ruins left by the white cloths. I felt the visuals were aesthetically amazing, varied and diverse, atmospheric, inspiring, and really combined to convey the development of the story.
right from the beginning with the barren, inhospitable sand dunes littered with cemeteries, and ancient ruins and skeletons jutting out of the sand, you start in the middle of nowhere until each setting brings you gradually closer and closer to the heart of the lost civilisation and the root of their power, the natural landcsapes giving way to more artificial creations, the ruins progressing from blocks of jagged concrete and broken bridges, to the dark and imposing machine factories, to the grand cathedral of light. then you're told that you're on your own from now on and cast back out into frozen inhospitable wilderness to make the last effort to the peak of the mountain, the symbolic death/rebirth and then of course the part you mentioned at the end which is like a kind of paradise compared to everything else you've seen, a sanctuary.
I found each of the environments unique and interesting in their own way, each area providing clues to the origins of the white cloths and a sense of the past.



-The gameplay is incredibly dull. The puzzles are not the slightest bit challenging and don't make up for that lack of challenge with anything to make them fun. Doing nothing but running and jumping gets old really, really quickly.


Why is the gameplay dull? The "puzzles" you talk about are not really puzzles at all, nor are they supposed to be. And if all you did was run and jump then no wonder you found it dull.

Personally I love the flight motion, I find it quite graceful and enjoyable, and fun to play around with. Its even better when synchronised with another player and you can call to each other to keep your scarves charged and maintain quite long distances, even competing to see who can stay in the air longest. I liked surfing along the flowing currents of sand in the bridge level, and sliding down the huge mountain through the ruins until you eventually drop into the deep underbelly of the ancient city, those are some of the more fun aspects of the gameplay. but the more subtle aspects of the gameplay to me involve interracting with both the cloth creatures and other players. The way the carpet monsters react and respond to you when they're trying to get you to follow them or dancing around you, or when the little "shoals" of cloth follow and respond to you movement such that you can guide them around.
as for interracting with other players, that of course adds a bit more curiosity and unpredictability, given that your actions are limited you can only try to work out what kind of player they are by observing their behaviour and trying to communicate with gestures while testing and judging their responses, but thats almost like a game within itself and adds to the variation and replayability.
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~we are a part of the process, not instigators of its progress~
#30conduitPosted 4/26/2014 7:11:40 AM(edited)
-There is no compelling reason to continue. There is virtually no story ('based on some optional cave drawings, use your imagination to create the story the devs forgot to include' doesn't cut it). There's no incentive for the player to continue progressing.



There is an extremely rich and grand story, most of which is contained in the cutscenes and is relayed to you via the White Cloths who communicate their history and guide you on your journey - the journey they made a long time ago for reasons that eventually become clear (or not, if you're not that interested). The story is also contained in the environments themselves, the structures, and of course the ocasional wall murals that you can find which provide clues.

For me the story was compelling because of the themes that it entertained, the type of concepts and ideas that I've always found fascinating. But also because I like thinking about stuff, so the creative interpretation involved in deciphering the story was also one of the most rewarding aspects of the game to me, the challenge and satisfaction of trying to figure out what was going and why, but also the open-ended nature of the plot and the unanswered questions which the game posed. Its a game that makes you think. To me thats the greatest "puzzle" the game has to offer, and it seems its a puzzle that went over your head or it simply didn't interest you. I guess I don't like black and white stories that are spoon fed to me in a very literal and dictatorial way where everything is spelled out and there is no space to apply ones own creative and intellectual interpretation or artistic imagination. I also like originality.


so again my earlier point still stands I think, and your criticisms still basically boil down to this: you find the visuals "dull" but cannot explain why, you find the gameplay "dull" but you cannot adequately explain why, the story is not "compelling" enough, in fact you admit to not even seeing the story ("virtually no story"), and overall you find the game dull and boring. Am I the only one who finds this critique a little flat and uninsightful? And yet you seem to think this is a perfectly adequate articulation of your point of view.

I get that you find the game boring, thats basically all you've said, and you're not the only one either. a lot of people find this game too boring and simplistic, they want something with a bit more action, better graphics, or more competitive and challenging, or whatever, thats fine. however after all your complaints the only thing I don't understand is what attracted you to the game in the first place? I mean it looked boring to you, the gameplay was boring, why did you even bother playing the game? and I hope you didn't pay for it, otherwise I can imagine the disapointment. but normally if a game looks boring to me then I don't buy it, and don't play it.
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~we are a part of the process, not instigators of its progress~