US does not Appreciate JRPGs

#21kamikaze135Posted 1/18/2013 10:35:43 PM
If the US didn't care, we wouldn't be getting so many JRPG games localized. Hell, even a lot of niche JRPG games get localized here.
---
This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time -Tyler Durden
#22archizzyPosted 1/18/2013 10:37:08 PM(edited)
Alltra posted...
Doesn't really change the fact that he feels embarrassed playing them. If you feel bad playing something, that means you're not enjoying it.

Yeah, that could just be all in his head, or it could be an unspoken social stigma.

Frankly though, I dunno how people can play games in public. Public is far too distracting.


I'm not focusing on his worry about being seen with one.

I'm just saying he automatically assumes people in real life are going to behave like on gamefaqs and be like

"OMG 3ds sucks so much, can't believe you play that kiddy crap lmao!"

To think that is how a typical American would respond because a few of his friends thinks some rpgs are kiddy or because of a few outspoken posters on gamefaqs is just irrational.
---
PSN ID: sled_dogs76
60" Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO151FD, Yamaha RX-V3900 A/V Receiver, Oppo DV983-H player. Coming soon: 2 Seaton Submersives from Mark Seaton
#23GrapeKiwi(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2013 10:38:00 PM
archizzy posted...
I were to walk outside playing my 3ds, I'm almost 100% sure I'd get laughed at by someone.

I want to focus on this even more than in my previous post.

This goes along with people on the Internet with anonymity will do and say things people in real life won't.

I'm quite confident you could walk outside and walk around all day and no one would hardly even notice you.

I have seen people with gaming devices walking around and they draw no more attention than any other average person who is texting on a cell phone, using an ipad, or any other electronic device.

You are relating online actions and irrational behaviour with typical day to day human interaction. The two hardly ever come close to being the same. I literally have never seen anyone act in real life towards someone the way I have been watching people act on here for almost 14 years.


That was probably an exaggeration - damn you guys are nit picking hard.
Im sure you know what I mean though. Yes, you were right - my sample size of using my friends as a comparison was skewed - thats why I posted , i was curious how it was like in other places for other people. Im sure its not like this in every state, and im sure theres tons of white people (or any people for that matter) that love JRPG's. again, sorry for all the controversy/ confusion. haha. got work early, going to sleep. leave me some loveeee
---
Hi guys! I'm an ex HoN semi-pro who streams Dota 2 and various JRPG's! Currently streaming : Tales of Graces F NG+
http://www.justin.tv/kawaiikiwix3
#24-BrokenSpiral-Posted 1/18/2013 10:51:55 PM
Alltra posted...
It's the presentation and themes.

That's what I think anyway.

I also think "Challenge" is overrated in an RPG. That's not the point. The point of an RPG has always been creating an interesting world to explore and interact with. That may be another big reason why WRPGs are standing out, they do this better than JRPGs do at this point.


You actually nailed some of the reasons, but I'll go in-depth anyway.

WARNING. WALL OF TEXT

One of the main reasons, especially nowadays, is that gamers want a game that's a game first of all. They don't want hours of dialogue or story, with most thinking "If I want that, then I'll watch a movie or read a book." Some are going to hate me for this, but this is a reason that Call of Duty is so popular. It's a game that you can immediately beginning playing, having simple controls that are fun and interaction with others.

Same thing with any game. WRPGs are popular because they don't restrict the player to a narrative, and instead let them do as they please and allow them to take breaks from the story at any time that they wish; which typically offers a plethora of things to do. The problem with JRPGs is that, while you can divert from the main game, most of these games offer so little to do as far as interaction and content goes that you must progress until well into the game for the meat of the product to open up. This is a reason Xenoblade was so popular: It allowed the player tons to do tons of things--exploring the lush areas, interacting with the NPCs, or sidequests--at any point and gave plenty to do and see.

Now the next thing someone will bring up: "But JRPG stories have WRPGs beat. That's why we play them." While it is true that JRPG stories tend to have more vibrant characters and engaging tales, the problem is that most of them are written like ****. No one's going to like me saying this, but it's true. The stories may be interesting, but they are only accessible through typically cringeworthy dialogue and interactions between trope/2-dimensional characters. WRPGs tend to have at least subpar writing (Not to say there's no bad writing) and more grounded characters that don't flaunt their quirks, which are far more relatable.

Now on the themes: It's not necessarily that, but there are plenty that will make you groan and facepalm. (Friendship and love always win, you know the nonsense) It's far more in the presentation.

I'll bring up an example. Take FFXIII. The theme of fate and "taking control of your destiny" has caused many to say the story's horrid or unbearable. The problem is in the writing and presentation.

Now let me bring up the Legacy of Kain games. They deal with the aforementioned themes of FFXIII, but why wasn't its story, which is still considered among the best-written, best acted, and best stories in gaming, panned like FFXIII? Because of the presentation. The writing is phenomenal. The characters don't spout nonsense and are not archetypical, instead letting the nooks and crannies of their personas flow naturally. The story keeps its integrity and does what it can, succeeding in making sense. This is the problem with most JRPGs: the majority do not do this or even try to do this.

In short, WRPGs have the upper hand because they are games first and foremost, while JRPGs typically try to tell a story that is shrouded in a bad narrative. The problem is that accessing the finer parts of the gameplay in JRPGs is only accessible by trudging through asinine characterisation and plot points, to which the player can only walk along the linear path. If a WRPG's narrative is lacking, then the player can diverge and partake in the gameplay and exploration whenever they want. JRPGs force the player to sit through only one option: moving forward.
---
Tales only wishes it could match Ys. - lennethsoki
#25TiaelPosted 1/18/2013 11:29:38 PM(edited)
I appreciate them, and even though I play things like Uncharted, Borderlands 2, inFamous and other games with me looking forward to The Last of Us, GTAV, Bioshock Infinite, Dead Space 3 and Sly Cooper 4, JRPGs are my main genre I play, and it always has been.

I'd rather hunker down with a new DQ, Xenoblade, TLS, Radiant Historia, SMT, NNK, Tales or other such JRPG game.

Plus Xenoblade sold nearly 400,000 in NA yet only sold around 160,000 in Japan.
---
Ni no Kuni Wizard Edition- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcEGEGpFgRU
Dragon Quest > Tales of > Final Fantasy, but I enjoy all three. Da Bears!
#26cyruscloudPosted 1/19/2013 1:07:52 AM
I am a 29 year old Caucasian male and an American and rpgs are probably my most invested genre of gaming with jrpgs being the forefront of that. Oddly enough I didn't get into them till I played Super Mario RPG at someones house as a kid though unknowing I played what some consider an rpg Legend of Zelda II as one of my first nes games but I didn't know what rpgs were back then. After playing Super Mario RPG I followed it up with chrono trigger and Final Fantasy VI and most likely spoiled myself a bit in doing so as I haven't really played as good a set of rpgs since.

Personally I believe the rocky waters around jrpgs is very much just socialism at its worst. Many self proclaimed "Gamers" today are really self absorbed in how they appear to others thus go out of their way to appear cool and mature. Guys playing COD and Madden are going to be considered cool a lot quicker than someone playing Tales of Graces or Final Fantasy its no different than dungeons and dragons being considered a geek or nerd game. Recently western Rpgs have taken a turn for the very mature putting sex and violence at the forefront and using it as a selling point thus making them more competitive to the other genres. Don't get me wrong there are great western rpgs being released these days it is just shame when things like that get used to sell them instead of the more key points like the experience of the game itself and its real story and direction.

I personally enjoy Jrpgs the most for the stories and deep character involvement and development you often get. Western rpgs place you into your own role giving you class choices and background choices,etc. Doing means things have to be open ended, you may not have the same party every time your character may not be the same personality thus a lot is left open for the imagination I feel or just generalized to work. For people that like choice this works though as it leaves that open. However for me I don't find western rpgs to typically be the games I will remember to detail years from now and play over and over, Elder Scrolls being the only exception. While the story definitely isn't strong out of the box in most any of them the experience is unmatched and modding can compensate for the story side of things for pc gamers.

I found this past year to actually be really strong for jrpgs I played Final Fantasy XIII-2, Xenoblade, Tales of Graces f and The Last Story in the past year and intend to take on Ni no Kuni next. Now out of those I already played I didn't find any really stellar or in my top jrpgs list they were still all very good even Tales of Graces f that tended to get bad reviews I found was very underrated. I will say Ni No Kuni is probably the most anticipated rpg if not game entirely for the past 15 years or for me, I don't expect it to be my favorite ever, I do expect it to be great though and may possibly be surprised a bit if it proves even better than that.

Just for completeness sake my list of favorite jrpgs fairly in order some would be a tie but just to have a list.

1: Final Fantasy VI
2. Final Fantasy X
3. Chrono Trigger
4. Super Mario RPG
5. Lost Oddyssey
6. Final Fantasy VII
7. Tales of Vesperia
8. Tales of the abyss
9. Xenoblade Chronicles
10. Blue Dragon "Underrated, simple plot but great adventure and gameplay."

There are many I still want to play just got to find the time, like Xenogears, the Golden Sun games, Final Fantasy games prior to 6, etc. Next up Ni No Kuni however, got a Wizard's Edition preordered.
#27COX-blockerPosted 1/19/2013 1:48:55 AM
GrapeKiwi posted...
(For ease of understanding Light/Dark Terminology(please don't debate on the RPG's I chose, they were just base examples to explain a point...))
Light JRPG's:(examples)
Ni No Kuni
Tales of Graces F
Eternal Sonata

Dark JRPGs:
Shin Megami Tensei
Persona 4
Final Fantasy Crisis Core

Hi there. I'm sure you've seen me bashing KH3DDD and various other light JRPG's (of course I played them) so I wont make judgement on this game until I've tried it (I'm very impressed with this game, can't wait to play it) But what I've noticed is
a great deal of my US friends(White) do not appreciate JRPG's, and judge solely based on the looks (It LOOKS like a childs game) and I'm not just talking about this game -
I'm talking about Tales of Graces, this, Eternal Sonata, Etc.
Some even had the audacity to call the gameplay boring and terrible (though thats their opinions, I can respect that)
while on the other hand, my other US Friends(non-white)/ South American Friends/ Australian/Euro Friends seem to have a different mentality in general when it comes to things - They give the games a chance, and don't judge the game by its cover - or opening scene. I could recommend one of them easily a JRPG to try, and they'll try it and come back with good things to say. while I'll recommend one of my other friends (not trying to be racist guys) numerous JRPG's (the top ones on most console) and its too childish, too boring, too "gay". Now like I said before, this might not be just restricted to race - I actually think it has to do with the US culture - and the reason my certain US friends who aren't white are more appreciative is because they aren't as americanized as the typical white person is.
Again, I'd like to keep this conversation focused on the games and culture, not trying to be racist - this is just what I've seen from the majority of my friends.

Though, I will say this - I DO appreciate Darker JRPG's > Lighter JRPG's, even though I happen to only own Light RPG's right now... (tales of abyss 3ds, KH3DDD, Tales of Graces..) But that doesn't mean I judge a book by its cover. I always try to give a game a chance, even if going in im skeptical. Do you guys ever think like this? How do your friends view JRPG's?
Does anyone own Graces for PS3? would your friends ever sit down and do a run with you / have you ever tried to get them to play with you?
Do any of your friends own Ni No Kuni? would you say Ni No Kuni has a better storyline then Persona 4 Golden? better gameplay? If no - then is it better then Graces? from what I see, it doesn't look better then either of these games (not hating, just based on my american perspective ) and if I didn't like graces, I won't like this. Though, taking it a step further, there is an obvious reason this game is getting strong 9/10 reviews, and thats my favorite part. Finding out what makes a game so good when I can't see it myself. Thats probably the most joy I have in playing a game. I didn't find it in KH3DDD. But I get a feeling this game will live up to its reviews, especailly since it reminds me of Dragon Quest ( Which I love.) Peace be with you brothers, I hope I didn't confuse you guys.

Also - you JRPG specific players... Do you play American Games? Like Call of Duty, Need for Speed... all of that jazz? The only reason I own them to be honest is when my friends come over. I'd only own JRPG's but most of my friends can't stand JRPG's. only my asian friends/ non-american friends do. Now this might be stereotypical, but honestly I'm really curious to why this is. Does it really just come down to us being interested in different things? I feel like theres something deeper to it then that.


http://www.gifsforum.com/images/image/did%20not%20read/grand/did_not_read_lol.jpg
---
3ds FC: 3797-5783-3905
#28GrapeKiwi(Topic Creator)Posted 1/19/2013 5:12:07 AM(edited)
-BrokenSpiral- posted...
Alltra posted...
It's the presentation and themes.

That's what I think anyway.

I also think "Challenge" is overrated in an RPG. That's not the point. The point of an RPG has always been creating an interesting world to explore and interact with. That may be another big reason why WRPGs are standing out, they do this better than JRPGs do at this point.


You actually nailed some of the reasons, but I'll go in-depth anyway.

WARNING. WALL OF TEXT



completely agree.
but I think they could easily fix some of these things (cringeworthy dialogue, smooth stories/script/ etc.) and you could have solid JRPG's that even westerners appreciate (And there have been some). Is Ni No Kuni one of those games? you got it yet?

edit: FF13 is extremely linear - its obvious JRPG players prefer immense, "World map" exploration type games where they have a bit more freedom/ choice. The game is just battle/ cutscene/ forced battle/ cutscene/ forced battle/ cutscene. so cookie cutter, might as well be a movie.
---
Hi guys! I'm an ex HoN semi-pro who streams Dota 2 and various JRPG's! Currently streaming : Tales of Graces F NG+
http://www.justin.tv/kawaiikiwix3
#29PhadinPosted 1/19/2013 6:35:24 AM
I think culture has a lot to do with it, though not necessarily about the gameplay. The gameplay attracts a certain type of gamer, but the storyline is what attracts (or repells) a person based on their culture. Many JRPG storylines reflect the Japanese culture, particularly when compared to the storyline of anime and other Japanese media. It frequently has younger main characters and more positive storylines. US culture puts more emphasis on stronger adult characters. It also puts more emphasis on more realistic depictions then the Japanese productions.
#30-BrokenSpiral-Posted 1/19/2013 10:12:50 AM
GrapeKiwi posted...
Is Ni No Kuni one of those games? you got it yet?


I bought it when it first released over here. Or was it early 2012? Can't remember. I thought it was charming and surprisingly decent. To this day, the only JRPGs that I've played that have had solid writing have been the Sora/Zero/Ao no Kiseki games. (First game released in the US as Trails in The Sky)
---
Tales only wishes it could match Ys. - lennethsoki