is this the new ff7?

#91BrightShield786Posted 1/29/2013 1:59:00 AM
I didn't say word one about the quality of Final Fantasy VII. I just said it was a phenomenon, which is true no matter how you slice it. You correctly said that I had forgotten Pokemon, which was also true and I acknowledged that. How was I being hypocritical? Like it or not, they're both a huge part of popular conciousness, and yes, sales are a big part of what determines that.

How were you being hypocritical? By the way you described FF7 and Pokemon. FF7 was a phenomenon and legendary, while Pokemon was merely a super fad. Despite the fact that Pokemon has sold far more than FF7(the entire FF7 compilation cannot even match Pokemon Generation 1 sales O_o), and has maintained a much more loyal fan base than FF7(with every other game/movie in the compilation combined not even coming close to FF7's sales). So yeah, if anything FF7 was the fad. That's all I'm saying.


Where did I say that sales equal quality?

You stated this.

Uh... you just let me know when this game becomes universally loved enough to sell 10 million copies worldwide and then we'll talk.

Ni no Kuni is a good game, but Final Fantasy VII was a phenomenon. We will never see anything that big in gaming, where RPGs are concerned, ever again. Sorry to be the barer of bad news.


And then this.

I'll grant you Pokemon; despite the fact that I still have no idea, to this day, why it's so ridiculously popular. I keep expecting it be like Pogs, or friendship bracelets and have its popularity die off, but it's like some kind of super-fad. God, I hate Pokemon.


You placed FF7 on some type of pedestal because it sold so well. However, you didn't give equal respect to Pokemon. In short, you basically said that FF7 deserved it's status while Pokemon didn't.



Stop getting so blasted defensive and show it to me.

Defensive about what? I'm not really taking a side in this debate.


Point is, Ni no Kuni is still pretty far under the radar, which will keep it from really entering the pop culture lexicon in the way FFVII and Pokemon have.

When did I ever compare FF7 and Ni No Kuni?
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#92DragoonGriffithPosted 1/29/2013 2:04:51 AM
I think a good number of JRPGs are better than FFVII.

FFVII is pretty good, but not the end all-be all some people were trying to make it out to be since it came out.
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#93Rydiafan013Posted 1/29/2013 4:27:09 AM
Rydiafan013 posted...
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]


What did i say that was wrong ??
#94hyperknees91Posted 1/29/2013 4:38:28 AM
Sinstro posted...
FFvii was good for its time just as NNK is good for its time, but.....

NNK story >>> FFvii story
NNK graphics/style(for this gen) >>> FFvii graphic/style(for its gen)
NNK gameplay >>> FFvii gameplay


I am having way more fun playing NNK than i ever did FFvii and im hoping they make a NNK2


I'll have to disagree with the graphics for its gen part. No jrpg even looked remotely as good as FF7 when it first came out (hell hardly any rpg did). While Ni No Kuni isn't even the best graphic'd jrpg of this gen. Don't get me wrong I prefer art direction as well, but that's far more subjective than polygon count.

But seriously, with the way Bandai-Namco has marketed this game, it's kind of hard to believe it will even reach a tenth of the status of FF7.
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#95ObsidusPosted 1/29/2013 5:25:15 AM
NewMoonShadow posted...
Obsidus posted...
FF7 is probably the most overrated game of all time, on any console. The game had a decent combat system, Materia was awesome, the Limit Breaks were cool, and it wowed people and stuck in their memories at the time due to the groundbreaking FMVs. However, it has some of the poorest stories/charatcers/dialogue ever in a game, in fact the story and the characters are so bad, it literally boggles my mind how the game has been able to rest on rose colored glasses and nostalgia SO much for so long. It's one of those games where people are incapable of being objective about it, because it is too close to their hearts, which is fine; but objectively the game was mediocre to bad in some ways and doesn't deserve the long standing hype and accolades it gets.

I got it the day it came out, and for a handful of years thought it was the greatest game ever. But maturity, objectivity and hindsight have revealed all its flaws to me, and I'm now able to see it for what it is, and isn't. And no, no matter how famous or popular it is, that doesn't mean squat when it comes to its flaws; it just means a whole lot of people are not very discerning, critical, or objective. FF7 is basically the Lady Gaga of the RPG world in that sense.


There is such a thing as rose-colored glasses making things seem better than they are.

There's also such a thing as an overly-critical eye making something seem much worse than it is.

You can nitpick the Hell out of FF7's individual pieces all you want to, rail on the parts that don't make sense or don't hold up as well or aren't explained as clearly as others, but frankly doing that is just looking too closely at it.

The simple fact is that people tend to enjoy the game for what it is the first time they play it. Several people in this thread have said they only played it recently and still enjoyed it.

This means the game is successful in what it set out to do, no matter what flaws you can point out.

The flaws don't become glaring unless you're looking way too hard into it, putting it under a magnifying glass and LOOKING for them in every individual piece, while ignoring the ways the elements of it work together to give an overall feeling and tone that was unrivaled at the time, and is still impressive at times today.

Looking at it so closely that the mood and tone are lost in the specifics is completely ignoring the point of storytelling. You can make any story ever told look like total garbage if you try hard enough, but you're still missing the point.

TL;DR: The phrase "you can't see the forest for the trees" seems appropriate here.


Nice attempt, kudos; but no. The flaws become glaring because they ARE glaring, just because most people don't care, or are used to consuming drivel and so it doesn't stand out, doesn't change this. And I wasn't arguing about whether or not it was a success, just that it doesn't deserve to be held as the god of JRPGs like it is. And THAT is the point, being very critical is quite warranted when something is as touted as FF7 is. I played that game so much that the in game timer couldn't increase anymore, I didn't say I hated the game, and I didn't say it was complete trash, so how could I be ignoring the things that do work, and were amazing for the time? I get what you're trying to say, but again, in other circumstances I'd agree with you, but FF7 IS by leaps and bounds the most overrated game ever, and anything that is constantly called "the best, the greatest", needs to be held to a higher level of scrutiny. Best for its time? Sure. Best of all time to the point where it ALWAYS gets brought up? No.
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#96Rydis-ShikoPosted 1/29/2013 5:32:50 AM
OldSkoola001 posted...
you know, the jrpg that gets really popular. ff7 became a mainstream game, something not common for jrpg's. ni no kunni is still sold out at most places around here almost a week later, is this going to become remembered and loved like ff7 did? 20 years from now will people be asking for a ni no kunni remake?


No. If game is really sold out so many places around you its likely due to having low stock. Take disgaea 4 for example. Game stops around me didn't stock more then 2 copies after pre orders. Its a niche game..so less in stock.
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#97kyogo1Posted 1/29/2013 5:51:37 AM
Final Fantasy VI & Chrono Trigger for originality. Then a tie for Final Fantasy VII & Ni No Kuni for appeal.
#98badboyPosted 1/29/2013 6:07:01 AM
If I make a list of the best JRPGs of all time, this game will probably take the 20th spot. (I played a ton of JRPGs old and new)
#99kingofjamaicaPosted 1/29/2013 6:08:39 AM
From: XKalibur | #085
Obsidus posted...
FF7 is probably the most overrated game of all time, on any console. The game had a decent combat system, Materia was awesome, the Limit Breaks were cool, and it wowed people and stuck in their memories at the time due to the groundbreaking FMVs. However, it has some of the poorest stories/charatcers/dialogue ever in a game, in fact the story and the characters are so bad, it literally boggles my mind how the game has been able to rest on rose colored glasses and nostalgia SO much for so long. It's one of those games where people are incapable of being objective about it, because it is too close to their hearts, which is fine; but objectively the game was mediocre to bad in some ways and doesn't deserve the long standing hype and accolades it gets.

I got it the day it came out, and for a handful of years thought it was the greatest game ever. But maturity, objectivity and hindsight have revealed all its flaws to me, and I'm now able to see it for what it is, and isn't. And no, no matter how famous or popular it is, that doesn't mean squat when it comes to its flaws; it just means a whole lot of people are not very discerning, critical, or objective. FF7 is basically the Lady Gaga of the RPG world in that sense.



FF7 wished its story was as good as FFT or Xenogears.


Xenogears was originally supposed to be FFVII.
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#100kingofjamaicaPosted 1/29/2013 6:11:18 AM
From: Obsidus | #095
FF7 IS by leaps and bounds the most overrated game ever


You misspelled Ocarina of Time.
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At some point, you're going to have to talk to a tree and do what it says. - Arbor Day Rule, Grand List of RPG Cliches.