If you're playing this in Japanese VA, you're doing it wrong.

#101cgwhite85Posted 1/30/2013 8:51:50 AM
choobiator posted...
ZEOPOWER6 posted...
Except you can judge a performance without being fluent....

Can you? Can you judge whether an actor is using the appropriate intonation with the appropriate timing? Seems like it would be difficult unless you were a native speaker.


No you can't. Learning a second language makes this abundantly clear. As you pass beyond simple conversational levels and begin to be able to read/write and speak fluently, you start to understand how much and the way in which tone, inflection, intonation, etc change meanings and affect performances.

Its also very difficult to begin to think in additional languages. People often, especially at lower competencies with a language, tend to hear the words and then translate them to their first language rather than just knowing what is meant. This additional filter makes picking up on nuance even more challenging.

So to answer your question. It is very hard to judge without lots of practice, but enough practice will give you the knowledge necessary. To anyone who is truly interested in japanese voice actors performances or cinema, the ideal course of action would be years of study and practice.
#102choobiatorPosted 1/30/2013 8:57:11 AM
ZEOPOWER6 posted...
choobiator posted...
ZEOPOWER6 posted...
Except you can judge a performance without being fluent....

Can you? Can you judge whether an actor is using the appropriate intonation with the appropriate timing? Seems like it would be difficult unless you were a native speaker.


It's something you should be able to feel from a good performance vs. an absolute crap one. I'm pretty sure you don't have to be fluent in English to be able to tell when a performance is horrible, so I don't see why you think it has to be the case for other languages.


I'm unconvinced. I sometimes find it difficult to judge whether a performance sounds natural in a different accent to mine, let alone a different language.
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#103hyperknees91Posted 1/30/2013 9:08:24 AM
cgwhite85 posted...
choobiator posted...
ZEOPOWER6 posted...
Except you can judge a performance without being fluent....

Can you? Can you judge whether an actor is using the appropriate intonation with the appropriate timing? Seems like it would be difficult unless you were a native speaker.


No you can't. Learning a second language makes this abundantly clear. As you pass beyond simple conversational levels and begin to be able to read/write and speak fluently, you start to understand how much and the way in which tone, inflection, intonation, etc change meanings and affect performances.

Its also very difficult to begin to think in additional languages. People often, especially at lower competencies with a language, tend to hear the words and then translate them to their first language rather than just knowing what is meant. This additional filter makes picking up on nuance even more challenging.

So to answer your question. It is very hard to judge without lots of practice, but enough practice will give you the knowledge necessary. To anyone who is truly interested in japanese voice actors performances or cinema, the ideal course of action would be years of study and practice.


Not necessarily. You might not be able to understand a Russian singer, but if they were singing you could probably tell if they were a competent singer or not.

Understanding might lead to greater appreciation but saying that "Oh I can't tell if it's good singing or not because I can't understand the language" is silly, as plenty of people enjoy j-pop and euro-pop without always being able to understand it. In fact some songs don't even use a written language (like yuki kajiura) and some characters don't speak in a written language (like elves in lord of the rings) but it should be pretty obvious if you have an ear for those things whether or not the singing or acting is still good.
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#104ZEOPOWER6Posted 1/30/2013 9:13:54 AM(edited)
Honestly, I feel like if you analyze everything (about a game/show/anime/cartoon/whatever) on a basis of understanding in such depth, you're completely sucking out any possible enjoyment that you could potentially have in it. I say lighten up, like what you like (but don't be snooty about Japanese/English/Spanish/whatever over another), and don't let anyone tell you that liking something despite not being fluent/highly studied/whatever in it is 'bad'.

I'd say most people fluent in English decide whether or not they like -insert dub here- by how it sounds, really. They're not looking for 'tonal differences' or 'subtle nuances' to the performances, if they like it, they like it, regardless of fluency or whatever's being thrown around.
#105darkgara(Topic Creator)Posted 1/30/2013 10:29:08 AM
CBrate posted...
Isn't that kinda the point of options?
You can pick one or the other.

And the trend in voice acting in western markets is to pick people who can act rather than those with a good voice. Reason being they want someone who can create a character. And all the Nolan Norths, John Dimaggios and Tara Strongs are usually busy with more permanent gigs.


Lol what?! Where have you been in the last decade of gaming? Western games practically invented VA for games...Have you never played any Rockstar game (GTA, Red Dead, LA Noir, Max Payne)? Bioshock 1/2, Farcry 3, Fallout 3/NV, etc etc.

I mean, if you're trying to argue that it's unfair to refer to you guys as weeaboos, yet your rubric of quality consists of high pitched voice acting going "uguuuu", you are out of your minds. American gaming voice acting goes for acting over good voices LOL, wow.
#106DeadSPosted 1/30/2013 10:40:00 AM
JP dub usually gets the right fitting sound of voice for the character. It then sounds more natural (as natural as one can get) based off the looks and personality of the character. This also makes them sound natural and have good flow.

EN dub is usually some VA team, who tries to force fit their voices into the character. This often leads to high squeeky voices (sailor moon etc) or deep low voices that don't fit the look of the character, much less their personality since the VA's are trying to forcibly change their voice and often failing at it. This often leaves the viewer feeling disjointed and with the impression EN dubs suck.

I agree, EN dubs ARE getting better. Most of the time they are still terrible.

That being said, I do like Ni No Kuni's EN dub. I haven't changed to JP to listen to it yet though.
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#107Thanatos2kPosted 1/30/2013 10:46:19 AM
http://rpgfan.com/news/2013/1057.html

Sony has the right idea. Make the JP VA available as DLC, and make the fanatics pay for it.
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#108dawnsetPosted 1/30/2013 10:58:03 AM
wow,i'm glad both sides are even, unlike other games. But i prefer English because i played Warriors Orochi 3 and half the text is mistranslated (and i miss half of the lines due to the action) and that just irks me. But i really hate if someone shoves their opinion down your throat like fact.
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#109jokering12345Posted 1/30/2013 11:42:36 AM
With English as my primary choice, I concluded that both VA versions have their cons to them.

I actually do not enjoy Drippy's dialogues. Not the 'mun, 'proper, trip catchphrases that Drippy uses, but his personality really takes away from my experience of this game. I am about 20 hours in, so I have gotten used to it and slowly appreciating it evermore but having to hear Drippy's dialogue in Japanese really helped me get through it since I could read the subs, and still implement my personal understanding of what he says.

As for the opening topic regarding how playing Ni No Kuni in Japanese VA is doing it wrong; the game downloaded successfully and I haven't had any glitches with the Japanese voice packs so I don't think I did it "wrong" at all!

Objectively speaking, the Japanese voice actors for this game did a wonderful job in conveying the messages and feelings that matched the world of Ni No Kuni. I do not recall anyone on this topic saying otherwise, but yes, people had their preferences and many chose to say that the Western dubs was the language of choice.

In a world with fantasy, magic and other science defying concepts I felt that the Western dubs wasn't as cohesively integrated as with the Japanese dubs. I want to have the most enjoyable experience with this game, and if that was the judging guideline then I would say that when I played Ni No Kuni with Western dubs, it really did not suit well because of all the widely ranging accents and character traits. Easy examples include how Oliver is set in a very particular time-line e.g. 1950s era with the obvious jeeper creepers about him, whereas Drippy is voiced with a Welsh accent I believe with his own peculiar dialogue. For me, there weren't enough supporting voices for the Western dubs to compliment all the unique voices and writing.

It's like when you read a book and you voice all the imagined characters that you see. You don't have every single character take on their own overpowering voice, as you might have a select few that stand out with the rest following in suit. That's why I prefer the Japanese dubs over the Western one because the Japanese one sets a tone that unifies the world of Ni No Kuni into a more enjoyable experience for me, whereas the Western Dub could qualify as being more realistic with its culturally diverse selection.
#110ZEOPOWER6Posted 1/30/2013 12:17:16 PM
darkgara posted...
Lol what?! Where have you been in the last decade of gaming? Western games practically invented VA for games...Have you never played any Rockstar game (GTA, Red Dead, LA Noir, Max Payne)? Bioshock 1/2, Farcry 3, Fallout 3/NV, etc etc.

I mean, if you're trying to argue that it's unfair to refer to you guys as weeaboos, yet your rubric of quality consists of high pitched voice acting going "uguuuu", you are out of your minds. American gaming voice acting goes for acting over good voices LOL, wow.


Now that's just wrong... and you've pretty much proven you don't really give a damn about what anyone says about the topic because you think everything is 'uguu and high pitched'.