Warning: this topic contains a spoiler (?)

#21kkeevvPosted 2/5/2013 2:19:14 AM
EgHeadFool posted...
Meteorites posted...
<6) Yes, the most important trailer that shows him in battle and you conveniently "can't see it." Okay, we're go with your story. But it doesn't matter whether it's Japanese or English. The plot is written the same way, and spoilers are the same for both versions except for translation errors.

I was going to answer you seriously but now you're accusing me of lying. Ask anyone in the United States if they can watch your last link. You don't deserve another second of anyone's attention and you've gone from annoying me to disgusting me.


Except the US is region blocked on that video. I'm in the US -_-.

That aside, I just watched it and DAMN IS IT FULL OF SPOILERS! Like...If I wasn't already done with post game I would have been spoiled by that video. It was most likely designed for people who played the DS version as a trailer specifically for the stuff that wasn't in said version. Which honestly makes it pretty counterproductive to your point considering that almost all of the people here didn't/couldn't play the ds version.
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#22Meteorites(Topic Creator)Posted 2/5/2013 2:25:10 AM
And if you don't want to be "spoiled" don't come to GameFAQs.
#23TerradriusPosted 2/5/2013 2:47:19 AM
Meteorites posted...
What's the point of arguing with me if that's your definition of spoiler? Anything can be a spoiler as long as people care? And I take it you haven't read any of my blackened text. I'm not sure how far you are in the story.


Yes, anything can be a spoiler if people care. However, people who would care about Swaine don't visit these boards, because for the reasons I put above, his existence and status as a party member is much less of a spoiler to the point where revealing him on a board dedicated to the game is perfectly expected and reasonable.

I have a friend who very specifically avoided the demo because she didn't want anything from it to spoil her when she got to the game itself. Most people wouldn't care about the contents of the demo, but some would, and they wouldn't come here. A certain, very small level of spoilerage is pretty much necessary on these boards - roughly, I'd state, the level of spoilerage given by the demo. For reasons I've already explained, I (and it would seem, most people on this board) feel that Swain falls into the "acceptable" level, and Marcassin does not.

And yes, I've beaten the game. I don't really see how most of your points are relevant, but I'll go through them...

Mr. Drippy is a part of the party. He even gains a skill in battle, albeit he is not playable like the others.


Yes, so theoretically Marcassin could be in a similar position, or at least in some other position of importance without being a full, playable party member. Drippy isn't a full party member, meaning evidence that includes Drippy and Marcassin together is weaker, even if there are reasons to think that he might be playable and they might be not.

This, of course, is putting aside the fact that I don't consider trailers (or the tiny bit in the intro movie) to be particularly relevant to whether something is a spoiler or not.

Pea isn't even recognized by the other characters at first, and shows no signs of being capable in battle. Also, she is of a young age.


So? Oliver's younger than the vast majority of RPG playable characters. And by all evidence, Pea would likely be extremely capable in combat, if she wanted to fight. And from the get-go, she clearly has some supernatural mojo going on. Games have had characters of similar ages as playable. Again, associating with characters that aren't fully playable weakens evidence that he is playable, even if there are (debatable) reasons to think that he might be playable and they might be not.

Marcassin isn't even in the DS version of this game. In fact...(abridged for character limit)


Any relationship to the DS game is irrelevant. Most people wouldn't have played it or read the plot points of it - I'd even argue that most didn't even know there was a DS game that this was based on, at least they didn't when the game was first released. The only things that matter are what is in the game itself.

They could have easily made Raashad playable for the brief period he joins you had they the resources. Clearly, he would've participated in battle in the story. But from a gameplay perspective, he's not because he only appears for a limited time and is too old.


Okay, so Rashaad wasn't a 100% perfect example (though I'd definitely argue that Swaine looks "too old" (and also "too ugly") to be part of the party as well - certainly no more than Pea looks "too young" or Rashaad "too old"), but the basic point remains that Marcassin spends a very long time as an NPC and this contributes to the fact that his transition to a PC is a spoiler.
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#24PaulkotsuPosted 2/5/2013 2:51:06 AM
It's a spoiler

I was actually upset when someone here mentioned it in a topic title
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#25Meteorites(Topic Creator)Posted 2/5/2013 3:07:52 AM
Terradrius posted...
...


That's an assumption on your part. And it being a spoiler just because "people care" doesn't bode well with me. Swaine is okay because "no one cares" and Marcassin is not because "people care?" That doesn't sit well with me. You assume that they care enough to know about Swaine but not enough to know about the DS game? I'd say the DS game is relevant. If they make a new edition again and this time make Raashad or Pea playable, would that be a spoiler as well? Just because "people care?"

And you're not looking at this from a "story" perspective. You're looking at this from a "game" perspective. I'm saying that Raashad definitely was in the party "in the story", even though he's not "in the game." Ultimately, spoilers are about the "story" and not the "game." If I describe all the game mechanic in the game, is that a spoiler as well? No, because spoilers are about the story, not the game. Following up on this, I don't see how him being playable is different from him accompanying your party for a while because he would've been in the party "in the story."
#26StrawHatLustigPosted 2/5/2013 3:15:08 AM
This topic can't be serious. I refuse to believe someone is this stubborn and dense. Please say this is some elaborate joke.
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#27Meteorites(Topic Creator)Posted 2/5/2013 3:26:01 AM
Also, if his appearance is so unexpected, then technically, everyone referring to him as the 4th are still spoiling it, since they revealed that there's another playable character.
#28tsukia8Posted 2/5/2013 3:33:30 AM
You are ignoring all arguments after getting owned. You are just trolling now. Doing a finger to the mods and everyone else by fulfilling your vengeance with this childish crusade of yours. You are pathetic.
#29TerradriusPosted 2/5/2013 4:05:03 AM(edited)
Meteorites posted...
That's an assumption on your part. And it being a spoiler just because "people care" doesn't bode well with me. Swaine is okay because "no one cares" and Marcassin is not because "people care?" That doesn't sit well with me.


If you don't feel that people's opinion is matters to whether something is or isn't a spoiler (and disagree with my definition of "anything that happens beyond the basic premise"), then what is your definition of a spoiler?

You assume that they care enough to know about Swaine but not enough to know about the DS game? I'd say the DS game is relevant. If they make a new edition again and this time make Raashad or Pea playable, would that be a spoiler as well? Just because "people care?"


The DS game came out only in Japan. Professional American reviewers had no idea if it was related to this game or not. Make a new poll and ask how many people knew that there was a DS game before they bought this one (or at least, that they knew anything more about it than "it exists, and this game is related to it in some way"). I'd be willing to bet that most people would say they did not. It's existence, and all contained within it, I feel, are irrelevant to what most people would care about in the game. Even if it had come out in America, it wouldn't technically affect what was a spoiler or wasn't for the story, but it would affect what sort of spoilers the average gameFAQ's person would care about.

And yes, those would be spoilers, though who you were talking to and how they were advertised would matter in terms of who would care about them. If, for instance, they were highly advertised features of the game and you were talking to people who had already played the first game, then they would be far less likely to care than new players

Ultimately, spoilers are about the "story" and not the "game." If I describe all the game mechanic in the game, is that a spoiler as well?... (cut for char limit)


Yes, game mechanics can be spoilers. If the game suddenly switched to a first-person shooter 3/4 of the way through (but the story remained the same), then revealing that would be a spoiler (mind you, it would also be terrible game design, but that's irrelevant). Generally speaking, they're less of spoilers, but I definitely think they count.

Also, if his appearance is so unexpected, then technically, everyone referring to him as the 4th are still spoiling it, since they revealed that there's another playable character.


Yes, I agree that there should be no un-spoiler-marked references to the fact that there is a fourth party member. The fact that there is a fourth party member is obviously less of a spoiler than that person's identity, though, and I can see how many people would disagree with me here - I'd say that they felt that the fact that there is a fourth party member fell into the "acceptable" level of spoilers for a gamefaqs board, whereas I feel it doesn't, though obviously by less than that character's identity.


Seperately, I realized that I had kind of been talking in circles here. For my own benefit more than anyone else's, I feel that whether something technically is a spoiler is irrelevant to any outside context. Whether something should be marked as a spoiler (and thus, what constitutes a spoiler for all intents and purposes beyond a textbook definition) does vary depending on context. My argument is that the context for Marcissan joining the party is such that it does constitute a spoiler (common usage) on this board.
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#30HiroshidaPosted 2/5/2013 4:32:50 AM
Meteor is still so butthurt about his topic being pointed out as spoilers by others?

I have seen you creating quite a few topics about the same issue. Why don't you give it a rest already?

Yes, some might figure out that there's a fourth party member but MOST wouldn't know from the English trailers that were released prior to it. I myself also frequent the board frequently and have watched most of the trailers that were provided for the English version.

Before getting my game from my local gameshop, I already know for a fact:

-I get three party members, being the hero, the blond girl and this grizzly looking guy.
-I get a dragon that I can use to fly about.

About the 4th party member, I was personally spoiled by IGN's video about the toko family experience trick, as it had that guy inside the party.

I got one of my replies modded before just because I answered someone's question, in which I said that Shadar is the last boss, when it was already quite clear from the trailers and in-game conversations as well.

So here's a tip: just be careful about what you post, because...

Even if you don't think it's a spoiler, it might still be considered as a spoiler to some. Not anyone have time on their hands to watch all the videos and nitpick about the in-game mechanism you know.