Warning: this topic contains a spoiler (?)

#51RafedxPosted 2/6/2013 11:59:29 AM
Meteorites posted...
Are you people trolling me on purpose? As a result of extensive trolling, these results do not represent an accurate measurement of the opinion of the community.


Why the hell did you make a poll like this if you didn't care what people thought? Did you expect everyone to just jump on your side with this or something? You should have just created a poll with 2 options, both saying NO.

Anyways, spoilers are subjective. What one might think is a spoiler might not be such a big deal to someone else. Also if you intend to keep posting spoilers with no warning then don't start crying when you get modded a bunch of times for people reporting you. Thats the way GFAQS works, if enough people say its a spoiler, then guess what? No matter how hard you yell about this it won't change the way people feel about it.

The trailer examples you are giving only really work if EVERYONE has seen them, and dissected them. Truth be told I didn't even have a clue about a 4th party member until I came here and saw someone mentioned it. It spoiled a bit of the fun but nothing major, but that's my opinion. I could see how someone could get a bit more riled up about something like this.

So just keep doing what you believe in, but don't whine when you start to get modded, don't start crying foul about the other members of this site when they inevitably report you for spoilers, in future topics. All in all just put spoilers in the title of the thread and start using the spoiler tags, no harm no foul.
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#52BloodPanther0Posted 2/6/2013 4:29:48 PM
Still waiting for any indication of why Marcassin being playable or not affects the story in any way.

Marcassin does things as party of the story before and after joining and becoming playable. So everything after has no relevance, or does everything before? How many scenes only show or become different when he's in a battle or not?

My characters traveled to an island and there were Toko familiars running around. Does that affect anything? I must have missed that scene.

Now, try not to strain yourselves too hard thinking about this one: If someone asks you how many party members are in the game, what do you tell them? Do you lie to them and say some number that isn't four? Or do you tell the truth and thus apparently ruin their experience with the game? It seems most likely to say something evasive to weasel out of it, because no one ever looks up information they're unsure of.
#53Thanatos2kPosted 2/6/2013 4:32:23 PM
Still waiting for any indication of why Marcassin being playable or not affects the story in any way.

It means he won't die before you get him, for one.
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-Thanatos2k-
#54stephanieisitPosted 2/6/2013 4:32:44 PM
BloodPanther0 posted...
Still waiting for any indication of why Marcassin being playable or not affects the story in any way.

Marcassin does things as party of the story before and after joining and becoming playable. So everything after has no relevance, or does everything before? How many scenes only show or become different when he's in a battle or not?

My characters traveled to an island and there were Toko familiars running around. Does that affect anything? I must have missed that scene.

Now, try not to strain yourselves too hard thinking about this one: If someone asks you how many party members are in the game, what do you tell them? Do you lie to them and say some number that isn't four? Or do you tell the truth and thus apparently ruin their experience with the game? It seems most likely to say something evasive to weasel out of it, because no one ever looks up information they're unsure of.


If someone asks me, then they're clearly not bothered about spoilers. Why would they ask something that could then spoil the game, such as a question that would result in finding out about a surprise addition to your team? If I asked someone "Hey, does everyone die at the end?" I'm obviously not bothered about knowing the answer.

Getting Marcassin is a surprise, something you wouldn't expect (as evidenced by the SHOCK that the characters emote when he asks to join you). Anything that ruins a nice surprise is a spoiler. It spoils it. That is where the word comes from.
#55Cecil255Posted 2/6/2013 5:11:09 PM(edited)
For this discussion to go anywhere, there needs to be an understanding of the definition of, "spoiler". It doesn't matter where you get a piece of information or how easily available it is, it doesn't tell us anything about whether or not something constitutes a "spoiler".

So here, let's define it... according to dictionary.com:

-------------------------------
spoil·er [spoi-ler]
noun
1.
a person or thing that spoils.

And the definition of spoils is...

spoil [spoil] verb, spoiled or spoilt, spoil·ing
noun
verb (used with object)

to diminish or impair the quality of; affect detrimentally: Bad weather spoiled their vacation.
-------------------------------

Finding out that you get a 4th player impairs the quality/enjoyment of the game by taking out the surprise that yes, you get a 4th player. The fact that it's Marcassin isn't even particularly the issue, so pointing out that he's briefly shown in promotional video is a moot point.

Conclusion: Yes, finding out that Marcassin is a party member is a spoiler.
#56Meteorites(Topic Creator)Posted 2/7/2013 1:47:50 AM
Impairs the quality for whom? Everyone? No, there are a lot of people who don't care. It's not a spoiler just because the majority thinks it is. Gameplay mechanics are not spoilers. Whether he's in the party or not is irrelevant since he was accompanying them for a while before anyway.
#57Thanatos2kPosted 2/7/2013 2:33:12 AM
Impairs the quality for whom? Everyone? No, there are a lot of people who don't care.

But YOU don't get to decide who cares and who doesn't - who is and isn't hurt by your spoilers.

Close this topic and slink away, hopefully never to return.
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-Thanatos2k-
#58TerradriusPosted 2/7/2013 2:42:10 AM(edited)
Meteorites posted...
Impairs the quality for whom? Everyone? No, there are a lot of people who don't care. It's not a spoiler just because the majority thinks it is. Gameplay mechanics are not spoilers. Whether he's in the party or not is irrelevant since he was accompanying them for a while before anyway.


I repeat what I said earlier: if you deny that spoilers are subjective (IE, you reject my idea that anything beyond the basic premise can be a spoiler depending on who you're talking to), then what is your definition of a spoiler? And why can parts of the story be spoilers, and parts of the gameplay not be? Give me a better reason than "they just aren't" - both gameplay and story are integral parts of a game's experience (a game that has a story, anyway), and how both progress as you move forward through the game are very important to the player's enjoyment and overall quality of the game. What exactly is it that makes the story special, then, that it's progression can be a spoiler and that the gameplay's progression cannot? Again, more than just "it just isn't."
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#59Thanatos2kPosted 2/7/2013 2:42:00 AM(edited)
Gameplay can absolutely be spoilers, because it can feed back into the story.

For example, saying that you get an airship to fly around in a game (a gameplay mechanic) obviously spoils the story, because you're going to end up getting it via the story.

Saying Marcassin is a party member means there's no way he's going to die in the story before he joins your party.
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-Thanatos2k-
#60Meteorites(Topic Creator)Posted 2/7/2013 3:42:36 AM(edited)
In point form, my definition of a spoiler is that it must satisfy the following conditions:
1) It does not involve only gameplay; it has to be relevant to the story.
2) It is not revealed before the player establishes the basic premise, and is not part of the basic premise. (ie. if the writer decides to show you the ending first and then reveal the rest of the story via flashback, it is not a spoiler).
3) The thing being spoiled must be significant, and cannot be predicted with absolute certainty (unexpected). The audience must be able to develope an understanding of the significance of the event that is spoiled any time from after the basic premise to the ending of the story; an understanding which is not obtainable, with certainty, from the basic premise. Therefore, knowledge of the spoiler must change the audience's overall appreciation of the story as a whole, not just the event being spoiled.

The basic premise of this story is *spoiler tags just in case*:
Oliver sets out on a journey in another world to save his mother, along the way meeting friends who join him in his quest.

Marcassin joining fails 2 as it is shown in the opening trailer that he at the very least accompanies the party (which is not separate from being a playable character from a story perspective), and fails 3 because his joining is insignificant and does not affect the story as a whole. In fact, we already knew people would be joining from the basic premise, and he already accompanies the party prior to joining. How do you even discuss a game if game mechanics are spoilers? Lots of developers introduce mechanics one at a time as to keep things fresh. At this rate, we'd need to put spoiler tags on everything.