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When to evolve familiars

#1butterbeancdPosted 2/6/2013 10:43:09 AM
I only recently learned that familiars benefit from waiting to evolve. I had been evolving them as soon as it was possible and they had learned all their abilities.

Now that I know I should have been waiting, I'm curious about two things:

1) Is there a formula used for determining an evolved form's stats? Like is it a particular base plus a certain percentage of the unevolved form's stats?

2) How do you personally decide when to evolve them? It seems like waiting for them all to reach max level would take forever.
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"I am the last Claptrap in existence, and I AM GOING TO TEABAG YOUR CORPSE!" - Claptrap, Borderlands 2
#2AmnesiaInnocentPosted 2/6/2013 10:45:21 AM
If I'm just evolving the familiar for an errand or to have the second or third form marked as "tamed", then I evolve as early as possible.

If I plan to keep the familar and use it to fight, etc, then I always (ALWAYS) wait until the max level has been hit. No point in doing it sooner, you'd only be missing out on stats...
#3lt519Posted 2/6/2013 10:47:24 AM
From what I understand the evolution only carries over 10% of the previous stats you had. So if you wait for 10 more levels that's only going to be like 3-4 stat points max.

Honestly, I don't plan on Level 99ing all my familiars and unless you are doing that I don't see too much harm in evolving them early. But I haven't beaten it yet so I may be talkin outta my ass.
#4butterbeancd(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 10:54:46 AM
lt519 posted...
From what I understand the evolution only carries over 10% of the previous stats you had. So if you wait for 10 more levels that's only going to be like 3-4 stat points max.

Honestly, I don't plan on Level 99ing all my familiars and unless you are doing that I don't see too much harm in evolving them early. But I haven't beaten it yet so I may be talkin outta my ass.


That's how I was thinking originally, since I assumed it would be too time consuming to max level all the familiars you use. I thought you'd eventually hit a wall where each level became harder and harder to achieve.

But if you did max out the first and second forms, there would be a noticeable difference in the final form's stats. It's too late for most of the familiars I've been using, but I may try waiting with some of the new ones I just caught. We'll see how it goes, and if its too late to make a difference.
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"I am the last Claptrap in existence, and I AM GOING TO TEABAG YOUR CORPSE!" - Claptrap, Borderlands 2
#5CarpetfluffPosted 2/6/2013 10:59:51 AM
I usually wait until they hit max level for that current form, but that varies a lot between species, some top out below 30 and others you'll be waiting until you get past the 50's. I do wish the game would tell you what each variants max level was so you knew what you were aiming for - you can't even use when they learn the final special move as a guide as some will still level up 20 more levels before topping out.
#6butterbeancd(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 11:48:49 AM
Carpetfluff posted...
I usually wait until they hit max level for that current form, but that varies a lot between species, some top out below 30 and others you'll be waiting until you get past the 50's. I do wish the game would tell you what each variants max level was so you knew what you were aiming for - you can't even use when they learn the final special move as a guide as some will still level up 20 more levels before topping out.


Yeah, I was just thinking about that too. It would help the decision-making process to know how many more levels were left before they maxed out. As it is, there's just too much guess work.
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"I am the last Claptrap in existence, and I AM GOING TO TEABAG YOUR CORPSE!" - Claptrap, Borderlands 2
#7lt519Posted 2/6/2013 12:06:13 PM
butterbeancd posted...
lt519 posted...
From what I understand the evolution only carries over 10% of the previous stats you had. So if you wait for 10 more levels that's only going to be like 3-4 stat points max.

Honestly, I don't plan on Level 99ing all my familiars and unless you are doing that I don't see too much harm in evolving them early. But I haven't beaten it yet so I may be talkin outta my ass.


That's how I was thinking originally, since I assumed it would be too time consuming to max level all the familiars you use. I thought you'd eventually hit a wall where each level became harder and harder to achieve.

But if you did max out the first and second forms, there would be a noticeable difference in the final form's stats. It's too late for most of the familiars I've been using, but I may try waiting with some of the new ones I just caught. We'll see how it goes, and if its too late to make a difference.


If you are gaining a few stat points per level and don't plan on getting all the way to level 99 what is the difference? If I evolve early and that means I have to get to level 85 instead of level 80 in my final form to beat the game, that makes no difference to me. I've evolved Mitey and Sid as soon as it was available and haven't had a problem up to Yule.

But I'd like to see someone prove me wrong with some actual data, then I'd change my strategy. Maybe I'm hamstringing myself and a fully maxed final form Mitey at level 50 is 10s of points stronger than a quickly evolved final form Mitey at level 80.
#8butterbeancd(Topic Creator)Posted 2/6/2013 12:19:22 PM
lt519 posted...
butterbeancd posted...
lt519 posted...
From what I understand the evolution only carries over 10% of the previous stats you had. So if you wait for 10 more levels that's only going to be like 3-4 stat points max.

Honestly, I don't plan on Level 99ing all my familiars and unless you are doing that I don't see too much harm in evolving them early. But I haven't beaten it yet so I may be talkin outta my ass.


That's how I was thinking originally, since I assumed it would be too time consuming to max level all the familiars you use. I thought you'd eventually hit a wall where each level became harder and harder to achieve.

But if you did max out the first and second forms, there would be a noticeable difference in the final form's stats. It's too late for most of the familiars I've been using, but I may try waiting with some of the new ones I just caught. We'll see how it goes, and if its too late to make a difference.


If you are gaining a few stat points per level and don't plan on getting all the way to level 99 what is the difference? If I evolve early and that means I have to get to level 85 instead of level 80 in my final form to beat the game, that makes no difference to me. I've evolved Mitey and Sid as soon as it was available and haven't had a problem up to Yule.

But I'd like to see someone prove me wrong with some actual data, then I'd change my strategy. Maybe I'm hamstringing myself and a fully maxed final form Mitey at level 50 is 10s of points stronger than a quickly evolved final form Mitey at level 80.


That's the thing, not all familiars have a max level of 99. You're just, by nature, leaving out free stat points by evolving early, which I never realized because the game never said anything about that. From what I understand, there are also certain familiars who start getting larger stat increases at high levels. So you may only be getting 2-3 stat points per level at low levels, and then after the metamorphosis point start getting 4-5 points per level. 20 levels of that would make a pretty big difference.

It sounds like you don't really need those extra points to complete the storyline, since I've seen multiple reviews of this game note that you can complete the game without ever evolving any familiars. But if it makes the postgame content and Solosseum markedly harder, that will kind of suck.
---
"I am the last Claptrap in existence, and I AM GOING TO TEABAG YOUR CORPSE!" - Claptrap, Borderlands 2
#9CarpetfluffPosted 2/6/2013 1:01:30 PM
butterbeancd posted...
lt519 posted...
butterbeancd posted...
lt519 posted...
From what I understand the evolution only carries over 10% of the previous stats you had. So if you wait for 10 more levels that's only going to be like 3-4 stat points max.

Honestly, I don't plan on Level 99ing all my familiars and unless you are doing that I don't see too much harm in evolving them early. But I haven't beaten it yet so I may be talkin outta my ass.


That's how I was thinking originally, since I assumed it would be too time consuming to max level all the familiars you use. I thought you'd eventually hit a wall where each level became harder and harder to achieve.

But if you did max out the first and second forms, there would be a noticeable difference in the final form's stats. It's too late for most of the familiars I've been using, but I may try waiting with some of the new ones I just caught. We'll see how it goes, and if its too late to make a difference.


If you are gaining a few stat points per level and don't plan on getting all the way to level 99 what is the difference? If I evolve early and that means I have to get to level 85 instead of level 80 in my final form to beat the game, that makes no difference to me. I've evolved Mitey and Sid as soon as it was available and haven't had a problem up to Yule.

But I'd like to see someone prove me wrong with some actual data, then I'd change my strategy. Maybe I'm hamstringing myself and a fully maxed final form Mitey at level 50 is 10s of points stronger than a quickly evolved final form Mitey at level 80.


That's the thing, not all familiars have a max level of 99. You're just, by nature, leaving out free stat points by evolving early, which I never realized because the game never said anything about that. From what I understand, there are also certain familiars who start getting larger stat increases at high levels. So you may only be getting 2-3 stat points per level at low levels, and then after the metamorphosis point start getting 4-5 points per level. 20 levels of that would make a pretty big difference.

It sounds like you don't really need those extra points to complete the storyline, since I've seen multiple reviews of this game note that you can complete the game without ever evolving any familiars. But if it makes the postgame content and Solosseum markedly harder, that will kind of suck.


Yep, some are very low. My fully levelled third-form Griffey topped out at, if I remember correctly, level 29. I'm not even sure if you added all three forms levels together they always come to 99 in total?
#10lt519Posted 2/7/2013 7:38:09 AM
Oh so you actually cap out your familiars way earlier than I expected. To any one that has finished the game: Did you max out any familiars before completing the story and/or end-game?