Suggestions for a Lich Build

#1Toan_SanPosted 5/13/2011 6:34:37 PM
What build will make my female lich a tad stronger? She's awfully squishy. She has Ice magic for attacking purposes and dark for support.
#2SlykykiskePosted 5/13/2011 9:21:16 PM
Get rid of ice and put on either earth or wind magic.

Imo.. Lich's are best made from a unique, their magic attack is insane and their spell selection is the best or close to. But their RT is just horrible.. I remember fighting an enemy lich and they barely got a move compared to the rest of the units. This is balanced out by any unique with decent rt... or heck just ANY unique (Byin, Sherri, Olivya, etc)

If you have to keep them generic, seriously don't dualwield staffs imo it just flat out is not worth it. The defense from shield is better.. and if you can get a shield with INT (Baldur), thats just groovy.

Be sure to craft ring of intellect/ring of intellect +1 with them, also any useful intelligence gear. Consider foregoing expand mind for field alchemy III/IV and mana seeds, that way you can equip swift foot/jump/fortify or any other useful abilities. (This is taking into account that you don't have teleport from san bronsa)

Also for any mages in general, consider getting summon or ninja scrolls to use as arcana in place of regular spells for whatever element you have as an augment. They are incredibly powerful and their base damage isn't far away from the normal spells mages get, but they can hit multiple times. (From what i've seen so far)

Anyway as far as raw damage goes, just consider crafting and buying scrolls/arcana if you have the money. Forbidden magic is nice early on but the +28 RT.. is noticeable, for a single opponent its better to use the +19 rt of a tier 1 summon spell for what can be comparable damage. If you have to use forbidden magic, make sure more than 1 enemy is in ranage to make it worth your while.
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#3Goshi3156Posted 5/14/2011 6:37:04 AM
For my mages I usually set them up like this:
<Elemental Magic>
<Secondary Magic (Dark Magic, Draconic Magic, or Necromancy)>
<Racial Skill (Usually Anatomy)>
<Augment Element>
<Spellcraft>
<Spellstrike>
<Expand Mind>
<Channeling>
<Swiftfoot>
<Meditate>

Like Slykykiske said; Ice isn't really that great of an element (Better than Water though!). It's only real niche is to use Indomitable Will to get past those pesky Rampart Aura users and Freezing Gust to stop those pesky flying units from getting past your Rampart Aura users. However there's nothing wrong with using ice spells to hurt stuff. The recommended elements are often Fire (For it's TP damaging spell), Earth (For AoE Slow and Petrify) and Air (For AoE Sleep and Bind). Lightning is not too shabby either with it's RT reset spell and long ranged Shackle.

As for it's squishiness, Sidestep can be helpful for this purpose since Archers and Fusiliers endanger mages the most. Dodge is pointless since mages shouldn't ever be in melee range in the first place. Spellward is also pointless since casters tend to be extremely resilient from magic (Hell, I don't think I've ever had my mages silenced before O_o). If you find your enemies engage your mages in melee often, you may want either use a Rampart Aura user or simply learn to position them better.
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#4Toan_San(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2011 12:39:50 PM
The reason why I have her with Ice and Dark Magic is that I have a Warlock (soon to be a Necromancer) with Fire and Earth.

There isn't really a unit who has been trained to use the Forbidden Ice Magic spell, so I thought my Lich could learn it.
#5AoENIACPosted 5/14/2011 6:12:52 PM
I don't see anything wrong with using Ice on a Lich for offense as your augmented magic.

I mean, there are certainly better choices given that Ice has arguably less useful buff/debuff/status spells than most other magics but it's certainly not unusable by a long shot.

I also see nothing wrong with using a generic. Lich is a very slow class, certainly, but you don't need a special character's recovery time in order to use them effectively. Just do the things you normally do to conserve your recovery time, only be extra thrifty with your Lich. Don't move a single square more than you have to, don't take action unless it is definitely effective, don't wear heavy equipment, don't do something that a faster unit could do for your Lich on a different turn, etc.

Speaking of not wearing heavy equipment, that probably won't help the squishiness you mentioned earlier. But there are other ways around that so I do ultimately recommend wearing lighter equipment. Just make sure it's all upgraded if possible (few armors change weight when upgraded) and take care not to move your Lich into harm's way without support (this ties in to not taking unnecessary movements to keep your RT down).

Now, in general, you want to identify what sort of units are ever going to be able to attack your Lich and what manner of attacks those units use. Ideally, you want to avoid melee enemies with your Lich and keep it in your back row behind some manner of defending unit. Surprisingly, your choice of Ice Magic actually helps out here by allowing you to keep flying melee units land-locked and caught in, say, the rampart aura of a tank unit. So if you're doing a good job of keeping your Lich behind your lines, you don't really have to worry about melee attacks so Parry and Dodge are out.
Enemy archers are going to be a huge pain, despite the fact that they are predictable due to not firing outside of range. Deflect may be worthwhile here, if you can get a high level of it transferred to your Lich perhaps. And what level of Fortitude can Lichs acquire anyway? You might also want to look into Constitution instead, a bit of extra HP can sometimes translate into another hit before incap, and more hits with a healer topping off that new HP buffer. A Lich is probably going to have pretty high magic defense already so spellward and resistance are probably not worth the slots.

I'd probably just pay attention to where I'm moving my Lich though.
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#6RiliyksPosted 5/14/2011 7:20:23 PM
Reflect damage 2 I've found pretty helpful, as it does add extra damage. ;O
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#7DoramiPosted 5/14/2011 8:04:52 PM
A lich has a class RT of 30, compared to the warlock's 26. It's hardly so large a difference that warrants being so careful with where to move the lich. In fact, it's the same gap as between a warlock and a necromancer (22). The extra RT from casting Apocryphas is likely to be the bigger factor in slowing liches, but the tier 1 Apocryphas only cost 2 more RT than tier 1 draconic magic, while the tier 2 spells cost the same RT.

Liches can use up to Fort II, the same grade as every other dedicated generic caster. And just like the other dedicated generic caster, they can't use Parry and Deflect. My experience suggests that Dodge and Sidestep are not worth taking, the former because enemies shouldn't be getting so close to the lich, and the latter because it tends to lower archer accuracy by very little. Fort II is probably your best defensive option, and it's pretty questionable because they'll be somewhat tight on slots (a secondary racial damage skill is probably better).

I prefer

Primary Element
Primary Element Augment
Secondary Element
Meditate
Spellcraft
Expand Mind
Channeling
Swiftfoot
Racial skill
Racial skill

The secondary element can be tailored to whatever you need at the moment. You aren't leveling the augment anyway.

If your primary element is lightning, you might want to consider switching a racial skill or Channeling for Spellstrike. Most status effects have high enough base accuracy that a high mnd caster like the lich doesn't need Spellstrike, but the powerful AoE RT reset spell in the lightning magic line has low enough base accuracy that you may want Spellstrike.

Apocrypha spells cost 90 for tier 1 and 140 for tier 2. The reason liches want Channeling, while most other spellcasters don't, is because the mp reduction is pretty significant for these high cost spells.
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#8DoramiPosted 5/14/2011 8:05:45 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#9AoENIACPosted 5/14/2011 8:20:26 PM
Liches can use up to Fort II, the same grade as every other dedicated generic caster. And just like the other dedicated generic caster, they can't use Parry and Deflect. My experience suggests that Dodge and Sidestep are not worth taking, the former because enemies shouldn't be getting so close to the lich, and the latter because it tends to lower archer accuracy by very little. Fort II is probably your best defensive option, and it's pretty questionable because they'll be somewhat tight on slots (a secondary racial damage skill is probably better).

I prefer

Primary Element
Primary Element Augment
Secondary Element
Meditate
Spellcraft
Expand Mind
Channeling

Swiftfoot
Racial skill
Racial skill


Ah, this is the part where we differ. I do not use three MP mitigation skills at the same time, so I have slots free for defensive skills. I find that when I don't have anything to use TP on besides Meditate, it's okay to not have Expand Mind and Channeling.
On something like Wicce where I want to use Meditate but have a TP skill that needs to be used every once in a while (Magic Time!), I generally take either Expand Mind or Channeling based on what I expect to be casting in order to keep my MP high during times when I cannot use Meditate due to lack of TP or due to using Magic Time that turn.
On something like Shaman where I want to be using Nature's Touch as often as possible, I tend to forgo Meditate entirely and have both Channeling and Expand Mind to help with MP (I do use Field Alchemy on support characters but I do not depend on it).

But I never have all 3, Meditate, Expand Mind, and Channeling. It just seems excessive.

Thanks for pointing out that casters can't normally use Parry and Deflect, that's a big derp on my point. I think Fortitude II or Constitution II (can they use that?) would be a worthwhile investment for a Lich if he's having problems with its survivability though.

I don't actually use a Lich but I was definitely considering turning Warren into one for nostalgia's sake (I always had him as a Lich in MotBQ).
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#10Goshi3156Posted 5/14/2011 9:13:35 PM(edited)
The reason why I have her with Ice and Dark Magic is that I have a Warlock (soon to be a Necromancer) with Fire and Earth.

You may want to keep your Warlock as a Warlock. I find that the Draconic spells are much more useful than the Necromancy spells. Banish and Tainted Love are the only ones I really find useful >_>

Of course, there's nothing wrong with having a mage with an awesome looking mask!
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