Re: autoleveling in tactics ogre

#1coineineaghPosted 12/3/2012 8:27:36 PM
With permission, I'm going to copy-paste some correspondence I had about ranking up Deflect skill, which offers a lot of useful info. At some point, I'll incorporate this into my Skill Improvement FAQ.
hey it's shinera, at one point in time I registered at gamefaqs twice and so I'm stuck with two different usernames depending whether I'm on my phone or computer

I just had a question about the xeod moors autoleveling and didn't want to hijack the other guy's topic.

I have a rank 4 and a half-ish parry on Ravness, who has maxed stats, and the chance of parrying is lower for high block characters

so in your opinion, do you think I should try getting parry to rank 8 on Ravness or start fresh with a new character (regular AVD or whatever stat contributes to block) and level up parry from scratch and scavenge to Ravness? Mainly what I'm concerned with would be if there's a significant time difference between the two.


An interesting question indeed. I haven't a clue how much longer it would take to max Parry with a high AVD character, to be honest. Rank 4 to 8 might take a whole day, but if AVD is getting in the way, it might take several hours longer. Definitely equip the Rozenzi Shield, because +2 Parry speeds up improvement.

But since you're talking about Ravness, I'd choose her rank 3 Deflect over even a rank 8 Parry. Deflect isn't possible to auto-rankup at the moment, but its usefulness outclasses Parry, because taking multiple hits from ranged attackers is a bigger threat than melee. I don't know if i mentioned it specifically in my FAQ, but you can't equip both Parry and Deflect at the same time. Try it. That should solve your conundrum.

so...I found out how to autolevel deflect, mainly based off yours or whoevers Xeod Moors method

it's basically the same setup (valkyrie, hp infusion, trap yourself etc.). However one thing I do differently from you is equip counterattack III. You mentioned not equipping it because of fear of not OHKOing the enemy, but all my hits are OHKO. So what I do is look for a bow archer to spawn (maybe crossbow, not sure if they spawn) and a melee skeleton (since the archer will be skeleton) and make sure the melee is not of the same clan. I clear the field of all other enemies. Then I trap myself in the vegetation and the melee and let the archer rain arrows on me. Contrary to leveling up parry, this time the enemy contributing to my experience never gets slain, so surviving becomes more of an issue especially getting hit by finishers once in awhile. The main purpose of counterattack is so the melee never gets to move out of the way, when he unstills he'll attack and get counterattacked and restilled.

I also like to believe that it takes less time if I kill him on a counterattack. If you want to level 1H sword, this is also preferable as you will never use a finisher and always keep the TP for healing. The main downside to this is valkyrie's can't equip the +2 deflect dread shield, so they'll have to settle for one of the +1 deflect shields.

I'm not sure how big a deal survivability is since I'm using a maxed stats character. I've come close to dying a few times but that's more of a retarded AI not healing when I've got <200/700 HP and 200 TP.
I'd recommend Fortify, Constitution, and Dodge (to minimize damage taken from the melee skeleton). So it's pretty easy to autolevel bows, augment lightning (enemy uses thunder bow), thanatology, hammer (if melee is using hammer), and of course deflect. Bear in mind the enemy will also improve in ranks (currently fighting a rank 8+1 bow user, good thing he doesn't have augment lightning :p)

Status effects arent bad for me since I had max stats and deathproof from the fire crest. With maxed stats I didnt need to babysit, but I would also suggest like you to save every so often

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine
#2coineineagh(Topic Creator)Posted 12/3/2012 8:28:35 PM
This is great information, but you needn't be so humble about it. Why don't you start a thread and copy-paste this info onto it? People can use this. I'll do the same for my replies afterwards.

Clever setup. I was considering something similar myself, but I had other ideas lined up for testing first: I want to test if a Dark mage with Drain Heart can really stay alive and improve its Meditate skill in Xeod. I also had another idea: Since Valkyrie can use the Barricade skill, it can create its own little nook anywhere on any map. I'm very interested in ranking up Herpetology skill, because Lizardmen remain very sturdy due to their high STR and VIT, which beefs up their defenses. If I set up a mix of non-OHKO melee vs. Lizardman while it gets healed by a cleric, I should be able to survive enemy 2H sword or Axe finishers (they are all lame single hitters).

Your setup is very clever; I'm glad you could figure this out. I just updated my FAQ, but next time I'll make mention of you and your setup.<continued>
Some comments: You can't fight a crossbow Archer, because Brimstone Hail will destroy the vegetation that traps you in. If you're only using Counterattack III to prevent the melee opponent from moving away from the vegetation, don't worry: For some reason it never does. Without counterattack, the melee opponent gets in 2 hits before being stilled again. This doubles Parry improvement speed, which is the slowest of the lot.

Fortify and Constitution will boost the durability of your health bar, but Dodge is a bad idea: First of all it just reduces *chances*, so getting unlucky hits successively will still amount to too much damage taken. Secondly, Dodge will boost your BLOCK chances, which is handled before the Parry skill takes effect. A high AVD stat will already improve your block chances, but in fact you'd want low blocking rates. *If* it does anything at all, Dodge will just reduce the number of successful parries, and slow down Parry skill improvement.
Finally, you confused me a bit with your talk about Bow, 1-handed Sword *and* Shield: You can only use 2. And you can also use Crossbow instead of Bow, since the terrain before you is low, and won't block your shot. If you're letting A.I. handle combat, then Bow users can't take advantage of elevation anyway: A.I. will stay within the designated range 6 of 1-handers for firing. Does the enemy Archer ever shoot at you with their 2-hander from just beyond your range?

Uhh you must be getting confused. I recommended dodge to level up DEFLECT not parry. The dodge will reduce damage from the melee while the archer will continue raining arrows on you to deflect. And god no I wouldnt put a sidestep on that character. Equip the bow skill for the purpose of autoleveling it while you autolevel deflect. The enemy archer will level up your bow skill and augment lightning. You stick with 1h sword and deflect+1 shield. I hope that clarifies things. As for credit, it doesnt matter since Ive taken so much from these boards that its about damn time I contribute

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine
#3coineineagh(Topic Creator)Posted 12/3/2012 8:29:21 PM
Okay, you didn't make it clear that you wouldn't be using a bow yourself. And yes I got confused with Dodge and Sidestep.

You might consider using a weak crossbow yourself: You can max crossbows and bows at the same time. If the Deflect shields are out, you might as well. Then you can max 4 weapon skills in 1 session!

Archers' base damage is quite high though, not to mention the finishers that inflict Sleep and Shackled. Fortunately you can still use HP infusion. Is it feasible to just let it run, or do you need to babysit A.I.?

I was just thinking: Maybe getting rid of the melee annoyance would serve your setup better? Since you don't gain Parry, and maybe 1H swords and Hammers skill aren't that important... Why not use Rune Fencer's Barricade skill to completely wall yourself in? You'd just need to heal the damage from the enemy Archer(s). You can soak up Bows, (enemy bow's) elemental augment and Deflect skill XP. And you can use ranged magic for another elemental augment, of course. You just need to keep 1 or 2 melee units alive to keep the game from ending in the case you incap the enemy.
If you use Barricade, it's also wise to place obstacles in locations that are out of your magic's targeting range too (2 squares distance).
If it's OK with you, I'll post a summary of your skill ranking session on the board. What was the end result: Did you successfully max Deflect?

Actually that sounds like a really good idea, the barricade. Are you sure the character won't do anything to try to escape the barricade. Unfortunately the barricade will serve me no purpose because.........I'm RANK 8 PARRY AND DEFLECT THANKS TO YOU!

I'm actually liking deflect more than parry because the deflect animation is different than the block animation, whereas the parry and block animations look identical.

You can post it on the board if you want, but definitely include your idea of getting rid of that middle man (i.e. the melee dude)
sorry didn't read all your post before I responded, hate how they don't show the message you're responding to in the reply. Personally I wouldn't give the character magic, otherwise they might "still" the archer, though I was ONLY concerned with leveling deflect, whereas if others wanted to level up elements too, they could go ahead

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine
#4ACrossCountryPosted 12/4/2012 12:15:51 PM
not expecting a copy-paste, thought you'd clean it up a bit lol

if anyone figures out a feasible way to auto-level overpower, please contribute
#5coineineagh(Topic Creator)Posted 12/4/2012 6:41:26 PM
shinera, to answer your last question: A.I. never attacks obstacles, and won't even use mobility footwear. So the unit is safely locked inside.
ACrossCountry posted...
not expecting a copy-paste, thought you'd clean it up a bit lol

if anyone figures out a feasible way to auto-level overpower, please contribute

The shine job is supposed to be for the FAQ, but since you asked, here you go:

The greatest difference between the original Golborza Plains method and the
Xeod Moors method, is that Golborza battles human clerics, who must be kept
alive to sustain the battle. Xeod Moors works better if you one-hit-knock-out
(OHKO) the undead enemies instead. Of course you are able to explore
possibilities on other maps, using different combinations of weak attack or
OHKO tactics. The Barricade skill of Valkyries will literally allow you to
recreate the Xeod Moors corner on any map. These two maps and methods are not
the only possibilities out there. Use your imagination, but always look at
your and the enemy's skills carefully.

Recently shinera/ACrossCountry explained to me the method he thought of and
used for improving Deflect skill in Xeod Moors:
Together we devised an efficient strategy for this, and it is summarized as:

Rune Fencer/Valkyrie equipped with:
-Brynhildr (needs a Light weapon to defeat the unwanted opponents first)
-Spiked Shield +1 (for the +1 Deflect)
-Armour with low AVD, to reduce Block success. Since ranged block chances,
like melee blocks, are applied before a Deflect attempt, high AVD will slow
down skill improvement.
-Mobility footwear (Winged, Sidhe or Floating)
-Saint King's Choker
-Bows (gain passive skill improvement)
-Deflect (gain passive skill improvement)
-Augment [enemy bow's element; mostly Lightning] (passive skill improvement)
-[ANY] Magic (except Dark)
-Augment [ANY] (except Dark)
-Thanatology OR Daemonology (depending on the Archer's race)
-HP Infusion
-Barricade (to create your own obstacles)
That's 9 slots occupied, and better to use the last for Constitution. Since
the unit doesn't benefit from melee, it can simply wall itself in with a
Barricade. Deflect and Parry can't be equipped at the same time, so it is
more practical to avoid the melee entirely. Note the absence of Augment Light
and melee weapon skill. It can cast weak magic attacks while trapped inside
terrain. Just an Archer and two melee units are enough to keep battle going.

An untested idea of mine should be fairly easy to set up in Tyenmouth Hill:
I'm very interested in ranking up Herpetology skill, because Lizardmen remain
very sturdy due to their high STR and VIT, which beefs up their defenses. If
I set up a mix of non-OHKO melee vs. Lizardman while it gets healed by a
cleric, I should be able to survive enemy 2H sword or Axe finishers (they are
all lame single hitters).

Improving Augment Darkness remains a shortcoming of the Xeod moors method, but
as stated before, it should be feasible to use the Drain Heart spell to heal,
while also ranking up Meditate skill. With some imagination, it may be
possible to do this on other maps, and even with living units, where clerics
heal the drained damage.

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine