Question from suicidesilence2

Toxic or Flame Orb?

What's better to use with Facade in competitive battling? Are there pros and cons to the two?

suicidesilence2 provided additional details:

Who else (who is also good) has the guts ability?

suicidesilence2 provided additional details:

Alright. So overall:
Heracross @ Toxic Orb


suicidesilence2 provided additional details:

Can I catch a wild Shroomish in Platinum?

suicidesilence2 provided additional details:

Ok, I have a Hitmonlee level 65 with 161 Attack (highest stat). Would it be good to give Facade to him?
(Limber ability).

suicidesilence2 provided additional details:

tiomasta, I meant give Facade to him with the Toxic Orb equipped.

Accepted Answer

Kraleck answered:

Toxic Orb is recommended over Flame Orb for Facade. Burns lower Attack (which is used for Facade). However, Toxic Orb will inflict Toxic Poison on your Pokemon. With Toxic Poison, you will lose 1/16 Maximum health in the first round and subsequent rounds increase the damage by another 1/16 of your Maximum health instead of a steady 1/8 Maximum health from normal Poison.

Guts Ability (Attack x1.5 when Poisoned, Paralyzed, Asleep, or Frozen, Burns will keep your Attack at the normal level) is shared by the Rattata line, Machop line, Heracross, Ursaring, Tyrogue, Larvitar, Taillow line, and Makuhita line. However, only Larvitar, Taillow, and Swellow are guaranteed to have Guts.

Shroomish appears in the Great Marsh after you have the National Dex. Shroomish/Breloom either have Effect Spore (Poison, Paralysis, or Sleep (10%) when opponent makes direct contact) or Poison Heal (recover health when Poisoned) Abilities.

A popular Breloom setup is:
Poison Heal Ability
Adamant/Careful Nature (252 Attack EVs, the rest in Defense, Sp.Def, and/or HP, never use Sp.Atk or Speed* EVs)
Toxic Orb
Spore, Focus Punch/Mach Punch, Facade, Seed Bomb

* Breloom is slow compared to many of the popular counters, so you'll need to be able to take a hit.
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gamemaster25a answered:

Toxic orb. Burn orb decreases attack, so the result is only a slightly stronger facade. Toxic works much better.
Combo swellow (or a high attack normal pokemon) with guts ability + toxic orb makes facade's power much larger.
70 x 1.5 x1.5 x2 = power 240
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gamemaster25a answered:

Well, Machamp and heracross work.
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Mudo_1 answered:

You can try
Breloom w/ toxic orb and the ability poison heal. But breloom is slow so you might wanna speed boost and U-turn into it or something.
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Kraleck answered:

If you want to give Facade to a Pokemon, use Pokemon with these recommended Abilities:
Quick Feet
Shed Skin
Marvel Scale (if you have a Physical/Mixed Attacker Milotic)
Natural Cure
Insomnia/Vital Spirit (but NOT Limber, Magma Armor, Immunity, or Water Veil)*
Poison Heal
Synchronize (if they have a usable Attack stat)
Early Bird

* If you use Rest+Sleep Talk, go ahead and use those Abilities
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tiomasta answered:

Don't use Toxic Orb. Guts ignores the Atk loss with Flame Orb, and Toxic Orb kills you faster.
Toxic Orb is only useful in Breeloom with Poison Heal.

Don't teach Facade to Hitmonlee. He's limber, so he won't be paralyzed, so Facade won't get the bonus if he would be hit with Thunderwave.
Teach Facade to someone hat holds a Toxic Orb or a Flame Orb only.
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