Unofficial Command and Conquer Multi-player Strategy Guide v 2.1 5-1-96 Greetings! If your are reading this document, then you have some questions about playing against other people in Westwood's newest release: Command and Conquer. For those who have never played, c&c, as most call it, is a real-time strategy game that can support up to four players across a network. The game is similar to Dune II and Warcraft or Warcraft II if you have played them. Yes, I am already at version 2.1. My original intention was to wait until C&C:Red Alert came out and release another version after playing it some, but alas, it has been pushed back to some time this fall, so I am putting this out now. -Greg Lindsley email@example.com Revision History: [1.0] first version [1.1] minor corrections [2.0] new strategy, damage table [2.1] more minor corrections Note: this document looks best in 10 point font Contents Part I: Getting Started [1.1.0] Introduction 1.1 Why does this document exist? 1.2 Why just 'multi-player' instead of the solo game? 1.3 Subjective introduction [1.2.0] Introduction to C&C 2.1 Introduction to MultiPlay 2.2 Playing by Kali or modem [1.3.0] Multi-player Options 3.1 Tech Levels and building tree 3.2 Number of Units 3.3 Crates 3.4 Tiberium Growth 3.5 Computer AI/Capture the Flag Part II: The Pieces of War [2.1.0] GDI Base Structures [2.2.0] NOD Base Structures [2.3.0] GDI Units [2.4.0] NOD Units [2.5.0] Weapon Damage Table Part III: Hitting the Turf [3.1.0] Starting Primary Objectives [3.2.0] Ideas for GDI Base Defense [3.3.0] Ideas for NOD Base Defense Part IV: General Tactics [4.1.0] Universally good things to know [4.2.0] GDI [4.3.0] NOD Part V: Questions/Answers Part VI: Conclusion PART I: GETTING STARTED [1.1.0] Introduction [1.1.1] Why does this document exist? This writing exists because there is a dimension in playing against another human that simply doesn't exist when playing the computer. The computer doesn't learn from its mistakes, or adapts to yours. People do. [1.1.2] Why just 'multi-player' instead of the solo game? Simple. I am trying to fill a specific need. There is already one official FAQ, one unofficial one (kudos to Roger Wong) if not more, and an official guide by Brady Games. To put out *yet* another general guide seemed silly. [1.1.3] Subjective Introduction I feel this is necessary to avoid confusion later on. Everything in this guide is based on my experience and the experience of six other game players in the St. Louis area totaling several hundred hours of gameplay. I have also gone through both the GDI and NOD solo storylines. I can really only talk about what I have seen and done, and I freely admit that there are many things I haven't tried. So, a little later on I might say something like: "GDI Humvees are pretty much useless." This is *my opinion*and nothing else. I am sure there may be someone out there that uses nothing but Humvees and kicks butt. All I am saying is that Humvees didn't work when *I* tried them. If you have something that works, then stick with it, and *tell me*. I would love to hear about it. [1.2.0] INTRODUCTION TO C&C [1.2.1] Introduction to Multiplay Multi-player C&C is what the game was designed for, in my opinion. Instead of a computer that thinks one way, you have a human at the other end. Anything is possible, from perfectly executed attacks to the most comical blunders. A devastating attack one game will find its counter the next. You can have teammates as well as enemies. No longer is the fight against GDI or NOD a lonely one. You mopped the floor with the computer AI? Just wait... It supports up to 4 players across an IPX network or modem line. It is supported by Kali, so finding people to game with is not too tough. [1.2.2] Playing by Kali or modem Actually, I can't help much in this department. Anything I could say about Kali is better said by the Kali FAQ, which you can find at http://www.duke.edu/~pbg/kalifaq.htm As for modems: to be honest, I have never played over a modem. I was never happy with the connection, so I always hauled my computer over to that person's house and slapped in a network card. I don't want to steer anybody wrong, so I will keep quiet. [1.3.0] MULTI-PLAYER OPTIONS [1.3.1] Tech Levels and building tree This setting affects what units are available during the game. Units listed for a given level are in addition to units on previous levels. Structures Units TL 1: Construction Yard Minigunner Tiberium Refinery Grenadier(GDI) Power Plant Flame-thrower(NOD) Silo Barracks (GDI) Hand of NOD(NOD) TL 2: Turrets Bazooka Infantry Comm. center Harvester Weap. Factory(GDI) Buggy(NOD) Airstrip(NOD) Humvee(GDI) Sandbag walls Recon Bike(NOD) TL 3: None Engineer Light Tank(NOD) TL 4: Obelisk of Light(NOD) APC Adv. Guard Tower(GDI) Med. Tank(GDI) Flame Tank(NOD) TL 5: Adv. Power Plant Stealth Tank(NOD) Repair Bay Chain Link Fence TL 6: SAM Site(NOD) Transport Helicopter Helipad Orca(GDI) NOD Gunship(NOD) Artillery(NOD) TL 7: Adv. Comm. Center Commando Temple of NOD SSM/Rocket Launcher(GDI) Concrete Wall SSM(NOD) Ion Cannon Nuclear Missile BUILDING TREE What you need to build something: Note: A '*' means that you need more than one thing ex. To build and APC, you need a weapons factory AND a barracks GDI GDI GDI GDI GDI GDI GDI GDI MCV | Construction Facility | ----------------------------------------- | | Power Plant Sandbag, Chain Link Fence, Concrt. wall | -------------------------------------------------------------- | | | Adv. P. P. Repair Bay Barracks Tib. Refinery | | ------------------------------------------------- | | | | | Helipad Guard Tower APC* Minigunners, | | Grenadiers, | ---------------- Bazookas, | | | Engineers | Trans. Heli. Orca | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | | Comm. Center Tib. Silo Weapons Factory | | ----------------------- | | | Humvee, Advanced Adv. Comm. Harv., Guard Center Med. Tank Tower | Mammoth Tank | (needs RBay) --------------------------------- | | | | Ion Cannon MCV* Rocket Commando* Launcher* NOD NOD NOD NOD NOD MCV | Construction Facility | ----------------------------------------- | | Power Plant Sandbag, Chain Link Fence, Cnrt. wall | -------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | Adv. P. Plant Repair Bay Hand of Nod Tib. Refinery | | ---------------------------------------------- | | | | | | | Helipad Gun Turret SAMs APC* Minigunners, | | Flame-throwers | ---------------- Bazookas, | | | Engineers | | Trans. Heli. Gunship | | | ---------------------------------------------------------------- | | | Comm. Center Tib. Silo Airstrip | | ------------------------------------ | | | | | Buggy, Obelisk Temple Flame Stealth Harv., | | Tank* Tank* Artill., SSM* | Cycle, | Lt. Tank -------------------------------------------- | | | | | Nuclear MCV* Rocket Commando* Chemwarrior* Missile Launcher* [1.3.2] Number of units This decides how many units besides the MCV everybody starts with. Usually the smaller numbers give just lighter units while selecting 12 gives a full spread. Starting with just the MCV usually makes for an even start. [1.3.3] Crates Having crates 'on' means that little crates will show up on the field during play from time to time. They are pretty much random and by running over them with a unit (not an air unit) you can get various good or bad things: (good) (bad) 200-2000 dollars (dollar sign) napalm explosion one airstrike (white missile w/ red head) nuclear explosion one nuclear strike (white missile w/ green head) hide-all terrain one ion cannon blast (picture of the earth) visceroid one unit (random-NOD or GDI) five troops (equiv. of one unit) all-reveal terrain (dark blue sphere) heal all troops/units (orange w/ green rings) makes the pick-up unit stealth (dark sphere turning into a gridded sphere) You can also watch your opponent run over crates and see which picture appears. [1.3.4] Tiberium Growth Having this option 'on' means that tiberium next to a blossom tree (those sprouting things) will grow back very slowly. This really only means anything for longer games. Tiberium appears to grow exponentially; the more there is to start with, the faster new tiberium will grow. Thus, in a long game of attrition, it is wise to let recovering patches of Tiberium grow back a bit before harvesting again. [1.3.5] Computer AI/Capture the Flag This feature adds computer players to the game. The computer players do not build bases, so they are more annoying than anything else. Thankfully, this has been improved in C&C:Red Alert. Capture the Flag Here is a variation on the regular gameplay. In this game, each player has a flag that is part of the MCV. When you start building your base, the flag drops down in front of your construction yard. If an enemy unit drives through the little circle then it picks up the flag. If the unit makes it back to its own flag, then all of the units of the stolen flag's team gets destroyed. Mind you, when a unit picks up a flag its speed is cut in half. Also, a team cannot carry its own flag. Example: if an enemy buggy picks up my flag and I destroy it halfway back to its own base, then I must protect the flag where it falls. [1.3.6] Battle Maps Each has pluses and minuses. One Pass Fits All: a two-player only map Tiberium Garden: not as good as it sounds C&C:RA is supposed to include a terrain edior, which should make things more interesting. PART II: THE PIECES OF WAR [2.1.0] GDI Base Structures Construction Yard Power Plant Advanced Power Plant Tiberium Refinery Silo Barracks Weapons Factory Communications Center Advanced Communications Center Repair Bay Helipad Guard Tower Advanced Guard Tower Sandbag Wall Chain Fence Concrete Wall [2.2.0] NOD Base Structures Construction Yard Power Plant Advanced Power Plant Tiberium Refinery Silo Hand of Nod Airstrip Communications Center Temple of NOD Repair Bay Helipad Turret Obelisk of Light SAM site Sandbag Wall Chain Fence Concrete Wall [2.3.0] GDI Units Minigunner -cheap! -in numbers, they are quite effective against structures (and generally) Bazooka Soldier -useful for air defense (esp. important to GDI in this regard) Grenadier -roughly the equivalent of the NOD flame unit, except also useful against armor Engineer -for their cost, they can often cause the most (monetary) damage to an opponent -use only one or two at a time, five is too expensive to lose (2500) -usually not a good idea to run them over open ground Technician -pretty much useless; does almost no damage; can't even map Commando -extremely effective against other infantry -useless against vehicles -can destroy a number of buildings -big minus: when they say anything, all players hear it: at $1000, it becomes a really inviting target Humvee -good scout -ok anti-personnel unit APC -my friends call them Armored Personnel Crushers (use alt-click to force crush!) -fastest GDI ground unit -make the best scouts (that is, they have the largest map-reveal area) Medium Tank -good, balanced armor unit -a group of 3-5 is a serious threat to whatever they are pointed at Mammoth Tank -toughest unit in the game (big surprise there) -can *repair themselves* up to 50% health -slowest unit in the game -can hit air units Missile Launcher -excellent anti-personnel unit -much less useful at close range -can fire at air units -only light armor (easy pickings for grouped air units) Ion Cannon -charges 25% faster than NOD Nuclear Missile -will only charge if you have excess power -does more damage, but only 2x2 square (NOD missile is 3x3) -can destroy an Obelisk of Light in one shot -can destory a SAM site in one shot if it is "up" -very effective against grouped, landed air units Harvester -single minded AI (find the nearest tiberium); this can be very frustrating (keep track of them!) -sometimes mysteriously stalls (you must restart it)...again, keep your eye on it -the computer uses them as personnel crushers with great effectiveness Orca -more firepower than NOD Gunship -flies faster as well (the fastest unit in the game) -same armor as gunship -cannot effectively target moving APCs, Buggys, or Recon Bikes (try using ctrl-click to lead the target) -takes 3 SAM missiles or 5-6 infantry missiles to kill one -be *sure* to identify them (and all air units) as a group (ctrl- [#key]) so you can control (that is, reselect) them in midflight (see below) Transport Helicopter -light armor (a bad idea to expose to enemy fire) -can hold five units (like an APC) [2.4.0] NOD Units Minigunner See above Bazooka Soldier See above Flame-thrower -generally a bad idea to group them: the ones in back will often toast the ones in front -effective against infantry, light vehicles, and buildings -keep them apart from other infantry. They explode when they die Chem Warrior -like Flame-thrower, but more damage Engineer See above Technician See above Commando See above Recon Bike -light armor -fastest ground unit in the game -can shoot at air units -devastating in groups -from a cost-effective standpoint, one of the best units in the game (fast, hard-hitting, can attack air-units, relatively cheap) NOD Buggy -fast -good scout (especially in pairs) -ok anti-personnel unit Light Tank -balance of speed and firepower -just fast enough for on-the-move personnel crushing -2 light tanks = 1 medium tank (roughly) Flame Tank -excellent anti-personnel unit -fast enough to catch retreating infantry -effective against structures -good support unit for other armor/units -generally a bad idea to place near your own infantry -can even squish enemy personnel :) Artillery -good against personnel and soft targets (esp. non-moving) -very long range -very poor aim (be careful where they shoot!) -long reload time Missile Launcher See above SSM Launcher -longest range weapon in the game -shoots napalm missiles, does more damage than GDI launcher -cannot engage air targets -long reload time Harvester See above Apache Gunship -same armor as Orca -same machine gun as GDI Tower -better against infantry/weakly armored units -work poorly against armor (10 of them, however...) Transport Helicopter See above Nuclear Missile -charges slower than Ion Cannon -does 3x3 square of damage -obliterates infantry -good against soft targets, structures -waste of time against armor -much less powerful than in the final solo-play game Air Strike -only available via crate -very effective against infantry, soft targets, structures [2.5.0] Here is a fairly complete damage table of what does how much to what. Thanks go to Dylan Northrup for putting most of this together. Machine Gun (Infantry, Humvee, Buggy, APC) vs. (for each burst) Light Armor: 15 Medium Armor: 8 Heavy Armor: 4 Rocket (R. Infantry, Adv. Guard Tower, Recon Bike, Orca, Missle Launcher) vs. (for each) Light Armor: 8 Medium Armor: 23 Heavy Armor: 30 Sniper Rifle: vs. Infantry: 50 vs. Light: 4 vs. Medium/ Heavy: don't bother Large Machine gun (Guard Tower, Apache) insufficient information Light Tank Bullet insuff. info. Medium/Heavy Tank Bullet insuff. info Units: Minigunner/Grenadier/Flamthrower :50HP/ Light Bazooka/Engineer: 25HP/Light Commando: 50HP/Light *damage is reduced by 1/2 when crawling Technician: 5HP/Light Buggy: 140HP/Light Humvee: 150HP/Medium Recon Bike: 160HP/Medium APC: 200HP/Heavy Light Tank: 300HP/Heavy Flame Tank:300HP/Heavy Medium Tank: 400HP/Heavy Harvester: 600HP/ Medium Mammoth Tank: 600HP/Heavy don't have stats on unit speed yet PART III Hitting the Turf [3.1.0] Starting Primary Objectives -do not necessarily build your base immediately. Look for nearby choke points or natural defenses that can help you. Make sure you have room for the rest of your base (or be prepared to use sandbags to space things out) Also consider Tiberium proximity. If your opponent still has an income when you do not, you've likely already lost the war. - always find out where everyone is. Send out scouting units immediately. Find all other players in the game quickly before they build up their defenses. -Look for crates (beware of the bad ones: e.g. a nuke in close proximity to your beginning units can be catastrophic, on the other hand, we've seen a "stealth" crate effect not just the unit (units?) picking it up, but also the surrounding structures ("I don't get it, where IS the power for that Advanced Guard Tower?!") -Use units not scouting to clear away the black around your base. The only thing worse than an attack is a surprise attack. -find nearby choke points, overlooking ledges, and any natural structure than you could use or be used against you -NOD players should build as close to the lower right as possible. Why? The equipment plane has a shorter distance to travel. -if your base is lower than someone's attacking unit, you get a _slight_ range advantage because of the terrrain. No kidding. -in a game with the default number of units, NOD gets three buggies. Assign each one to a control key and send them to the corners of the map. This is very fast recon, but keep an eye on them. [3.2.0] Ideas for GDI Base Defense -start building walls as soon as you can (an APC full of engineers can't shoot through even a sandbag wall) -chances are that between the reveal-map crates, the speed of Humvees/buggies, and the existence of stealth tanks that you'll be unable to keep your base from being seen by your opponents. There's no harm in trying, however: set up a picket defense early. Use the "g" (guard) function. If you're in a one-pass accessed area, park a vehicle across the bridge. -put advanced guard towers in as well as around your base this will (to protect against engineers or commandos behind the lines and air attacks -when an attack is about to reach your base, build an Adv. Guard Tower but do not place it until the enemy pushes through the first line of defense (surprise them with a gift that says: "Hey, I care.") -have anti-armor defense: GDI doesn't have turrets so use medium/mammoth tanks (the patch evens things out a bit) -mammoth tanks are good all-around defensive units that can change facing/placement pretty easily even though they move slowly [3.3.0] Ideas for NOD Base Defense -turrets are your best friends even when they are expensive -support a turret line with flame-throwers/flame tanks -use the turrets in sets -have excess power when using an Obelisk (having excess power generally is always a good idea, actually) -when using an Obelisk as your main defense, never bunch up your power plants -SAM sites are often not very effective by themselves, they work better in sets PART IV General Tactics [4.1.0] Universally good things to know -Study the requirement tree in section 1.3.1 -keep an eye on your harvester(s)! -Keep a few units in reserve -in a team game, you may want to have some mobile units around to help your teammate -pan around the map as often as possible -when attacking with your teammate, timing is key -Never, ever forget to repair any structures/units you want to keep -Repair structures while under attack as well as after (repairing is a toggle: only click it once! If a wrench is blinking, it's working, if not then try again) -allies can share things like repair bays, helipads and tiberium refineries -if your unit is under fire, run it to an ally's base if that is closer than yours -a two-front assault is twice as hard to coordinate, but twice as hard to defend against -experiment with coordinated attacks either with your own forces or between you and another player: instead of rushing in with everything, assign a mix of forces to three groups (using the control keys). Now instead of trying to control 21 units at once, you can assign a group of 7 to three targets and control them much easier -experiment with what I call 'replacement attacks' Example: You have some Orcas, some tanks, and a charged ION blast. Instead of attacking all at once, 'replace' each attack: send the tanks on there way. Once they are about halfway there, send in the Orcas to soften up defenses (concentrate on that attack). Now about the time the Orcas are running out of steam, the tanks arrive. Send the Orcas home and go to work with the tanks. Now when you finish with that and the tanks are going home, as a final insult find the most damaged building and take it out with an ION blast. This takes a while to build up, but quite a rush when pulled off correctly. -if you are playing with a teamate, it is important to note that a combined ION/Nuke or ION/ION blast can destroy any existing building. I once had no units left, but carved up an enemy base with my teammate. -if someone is shooting an ion or nuke at you, get the sell icon ready. There is actually a lag between the initial explosion and your buildings exploding and you can sell buildings before they explode. -you can use the nuke or ion to destroy tiberium fields. -use walls to protect tiberium fields you want to keep later in the game. -try to harvest far away early on and switch to closer fields when things get hairy. -place a unit on tiberium to keep it from being harvested. This will grow later. -a NOD attack force is usually more expensive than a similar GDI force. -select a group of defending units and hit the 'g' key. This will make them more alert and defend as a group. [4.2.0] GDI -never send troops after flame units. Period. -send infantry or Orcas against turrets, not armor -send 5-6 Orcas against a SAM site, unless you want to lose one -never send armor against an Obelisk unless you have already cut the power -if you have 6-8 Orcas, consider two groups of 3 instead of 1 group of 6-8 and harass continuously instead of in waves -it is easier for you to hole up a base than NOD forces -send 5-6 Orcas to attack a building in the enemy base. When they finish, if it is more than %50 damaged, an ION blast will usually take it out. -mammoth tanks against turrets is a committed attack; once it is in range and shooting, they are too slow to move out of range if you change your mind -you need about 10 infantry to take an Obelisk and you will lose 3-4 troops -it's a good idea to use a mixed force [4.3.0] NOD -never engage an Adv. Guard tower with troops alone -stealth tanks and recon bikes work well in groups -stealth tanks cannot take much punishment -stealth tanks are best used for enemy base recon -pick your attacks, make GDI come to you if you can -5 Recon Bikes make a good 'mobile' SAM site. Put them where you want them, group them tightly and hit 'g' for 'guard.' They will shoot anything that flies over and 5 missles almost gurantee an instant kill -lure mammoth tanks into a trap with a few light tanks supported by stealth tanks and recon bikes out of range, then do a combined attack when the mammoth tanks take the bait. -have a turret ready to place when you are about to capture a building. Start placing turrets and watch the fun! -recon bikes are best against harvesters, as movable SAMs, or general recon. They tend to be at a disadvange otherwise. -recon bikes are the most cost-effective units -hide stealth tanks in an area of attack beforehand. De-cloak at the best time keeping in mind their relatively weak armor -hide stealth tanks in an enemy base 10-15 min. before an attack, then attack outside as well as inside the base -fast units like recon bike gangs can be devastating against harvesters. Hit and run! -spread flame troops out to reduce friendly fire -again, use a mixed force -keep a group of 8 stealth tanks near enemy construction yard. When he attacks, attack his construction yard since he will be concentrating on attacking and not looking at his own base. PART V: Questions/Answers -Is there any way to produce a gunboat, hovercraft, or an airstrike? No. -What is the typical length of one multiplayer game. Fairly short, actually. 30-90 minutes. -Is there any way to speed up the recharge of the Ion Cannon or Nuclear Missile? No. -Do you think either side has an advantage? The consensus is that NOD has the advantage between its rather effective turrets and flame units. On the other hand, a fleet of orcas can be devastating if allowed to be built up -Help! My troops seem to sit there while the guy next to them gets wasted! Ah, yes. the 'my buddy is cleaning his gun while I'm dying' problem It seems each unit has a range that an attacking unit needs to be at to 'come alive.' If you have units on guard duty, select them as a group and hit the 'g' key for 'guard.' This does two things: 1) they seem to be more alert and come alive faster 2) if any unit in the group is attacked, they all move to return fire -Is there any way to heal troops? No. There was in the beta test (the hospital building seen in some solo missions), but it was removed in the final version. There is a crate that will do that a one-shot heal-all, though (orange with green rings). -How does one control air units? Group one or more by selecting them via box drag or shift clicking, then use Ctrl + 0-9 to assign them to group '3' or whatever, then just type the group number to select them in flight. Use alt + group# to center on units. -Is there air-to-air combat? Not really. If you tell your air units to destroy another air unit on the ground and the unit takes off, then your units will pursue it into the air a bit, but there is no way to target enemy units in the air. -Is there any way to shoot down the NOD equipment plane? Nope. -What the heck is that little red blob that comes out of a crate and attacks things? That is a visceroid. It was a plot element that got dropped for the game and will be picked up in C&C2 as far as I know. -Can I sell vehicles? Yes. Move them onto the Repair Bay and click on it with the 'sell' symbol. You get about 1/2 its value back. (Notice the green dollar sign instead of the normal, slightly larger yellow one.) See also the next question. -Can I sell infantry? Yes. There is a glitch that allows you to sell infantry (and other units): make a section of sandbag wall. Move the unit next to the wall and then move the sell symbol as close to the unit as you can while still keeping it spinning and click. This may take a few tries. -How can I keep my units from shooting my ally? Click on one of your ally's units or structures and type 'a'. He must do the same to keep from shooting your units. Repeat to declare war. -Someone said there is a way to play with all the units in Multiplayer? Huh? Interestingly enough, there is: Edit the file conquer.ini Go to the [Multiplayer] section and make it 'side=3' Go back in and don't select GDI or NOD when starting a game -Are there ways to cheat? Yes, but in the interest of fair gaming, my lips are sealed. -What is the point of the 1.19 patch? -fixes a few modem compatability problems -makes NOD turrets cost $600 (a bit too much, I think) -fixes the nuke bug in the single player NOD game -What should I expect in C&C2: Tiberian Sun? -It will be in SVGA (finally) -new units will include submarines, destroyers, and missle crusiers -bigger maps -should have TCP/IP support -will be out after C&C:RA Coming soon: C&C: Red Alert -due sometime late summer, fall (Q3) 1996 -prequel to C&C (circa WW II technology) -all new units -more specialized units -better movement interface -better AI -sea units -6 player networking -larger maps look for preview in the April issue of Strategy Games Guide Plus PART VI: Conclusion This covers most of it until the next game release. I will keep my eyes open over the summer. If you have problems, suggestions, or corrections please feel free to email me at firstname.lastname@example.org. Heck, if you just wanted to say 'thank you' I would really appreciate it. This thing took a lot of time and effort. One thing: if there is a flaw or if you have a criticism, please be constructive. To just write me and say 'this sucks' doesn't help me improve the next version. Questions, comments, corrections, additions, and anything else: email@example.com No copy requests, please. I will post this more than once, but I tend to honor such requests anyway. :-) Finally: big thanks go to Andy Ellsworth for his building tree chart and tech levels. A lot of his advice can already be found on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic. Thanks to Darrell (firstname.lastname@example.org) for his editing skills and to the C&C group in general: Micah Conner, Luke Duff, Andy Ellsworth, Darrell Gentry, Dylan Northrup (who now is in Florida), and Dan Pinkard. And I also must thank everone for the feedback. Many have brought new tactics to my attention and some just dropped a note to say 'hi.' I really appreciate it. It really makes all of this time well spent. I am sorry if I cannot give credit to everyone who turns in an idea, but I know who you are since I keep all of the email on this filed away. Thanks for your input. If you have some good stories, I like exchanging war stories as much as the next person, so write me about them if you get the chance. Have a good summer all and enjoy. Anxiously awaiting Red Alert. And still waiting... Dum de dum. Dum da da de dum. Just waitin' here. Any time now....yep. :-) FIGHT, WIN, PREVAIL!