Submission FAQ by iamthedave

Version: 1.2 | Updated: 12/11/03 | Printable Version

Submission FAQ for HCTP  Version 1.2



I) Introduction/Notes

II) Version History

III) List of Submissions by position

IV) List of Submissions by target area

V) General Strategy

VI) Thanks and Contact Details

VII) Copyright information



The new Submission system in HCTP is one of the much-hyped additions to Yuke's
record-smashing formula, and its one of the areas of the game that has come
under the most criticism for being straight out too difficult. Well, the point
of this FAQ is to help you create better submission wrestlers and to get the
most out of the system.

Below you'll find the list of every 'escape' submission in the game, divided in
different ways for your viewing and using pleasure. I'm going to be using the
letter 'R' to indicate those submissions which use the second part of the new
system, that being crawling to the ropes. I'll also use the letter 'F' to
indicate finisher-only submissions. So, here's the little key I'm using:

F: Finisher-Only
R: The submission uses or can use the green 'I'm at the ropes now so please
make him stop hurting me' triangle

Also note that while this system has been added, the old one is firmly in place
and is just as open to abuse. However its possible to get a far quicker
submission using the new system.

Also in this section I introduce the simple guide to how damage affects your
submission stamina. The 'Chances of Submission' column below takes into account
your relative submission stats. If you have a Submission rating of 10 and they
have a rating of 1, you will slaughter them for two reasons. One, you get to
hold the submission on for 10 seconds, giving you a long period to get that bar
empty. Two, your button presses MEAN more than theirs. Essentially, they
will have to be pressing their buttons about ten times faster than you in order
to avoid tapping. Since the computer 'presses' at a steady rate, a submission
is therefore guaranteed. Against a human opponent, their wrists will likely get
tired before yours do :). As a final addition to this, the individual power of
a move seems to have some bearing on the submission bar. Not a massive amount,
but a little. Anyway, here's the table:

Body Part Is         Submission Bar Starts At        Chances of Submission
------------         ------------------------        --------------------
Blue                 Almost full, far to the right   Almost nil
Yellow               Roughly around the centre       Unlikely
Orange               3/4s empty                      Highly likely
Red                  Almost empty, far to left       Almost certain*

*Exception to this rule is the dreaded Smackdown! Difficulty problem. On The
highest setting, it is functionally impossible to get characters with a
submission rating of 9 or 10 to submit. SOME people say they can do it, and I
think I may have at some point, but it is extraordinarily unlikely. Hence,
don't build your submission wrestlers do be JUST that. Take a page of out of
Angle's book and learn some slams.



1.0: All the info!

1.1: Corrected the margins, added a little more data on the auto-tap outs,
tidied some things up, fixed some grammar. Added this section.

1.2: Corrected the margins AGAIN, added a few new auto-tap submissions,
slightly restructured the columns of submissions.



This list is the simplest, most utilitarian, and least useful. It doesn't tell
you much about the moves, just where they're done from. Still, it helps to
know. Here you go.

Front Grapples                      Back Grapples
--------------                      ---------------
Standing Crossface 2                Dragon Sleeper 2
Snapmare and Necklock               Blackout
Trailer Hitch                       Octopus Stretch 2
Bearhug 3                           Back Tazzmission 2
Crippler Crossface (F/R)            Million Dollar Dream (F)
Torture Rack                        Back Tazzmission 1
Walls of Jericho 1 (F/R)            Sleeper Hold 3
                                    Full Nelson          (F)

Leg Ground Grapples                Head Ground Grapples
---------------------              --------------------
Triple H Deathlock                 Headlock 3
Deathlock with Bridge              Dragon Sleeper 3
Edgecator               (R)        Camel Clutch 3
STF                     (R)        Neck Lock
Sharpshooter 1          (R)        Reverse Chin Lock 2
Sharpshooter 2          (R)        Sleeper Hold and Scissors
Deathlock STF           (F)        Mexican Armbreaker         (F)
Single Leg Crab 1                  Ground Tazzmission         (F)
Single Leg Crab 2                  SGT Cobra Clutch           (F)
Single Leg Crab 3                  Angle Lock 2               (F/R)
The Rock Sharpshooter   (R)
Haas of Pain            (F)
Regal Stretch           (F)
Steiner Recliner        (F)
El Paso 2               (F)



Right, this is a TEENY bit more complicated than the previous list, because
there are two parts to each submission.

You will notice that in matches such as, say, escape only cage matches that you
can't actually hold people in submissions. This doesn't mean that no damage is
done, though. The reason for this is that the button mashing frenzy has no
effect whatsoever on damage, even though damage does affect the stamina of an
opponent. So, each submission listed in this FAQ has two bits to them, a
'damage' stage, and a 'button mashing' stage. Easy, right? Yes, except for the
fact that in some cases the two stages are different.

What I mean by that is that there are some submissions where the area they
damage is NOT the area they base the stamina for the button mashing bar from.

Example: Single Leg Crab 1 is a back-based submission, in that it checks the
state of the opponent's back to determine where it sets the submission bar.
However, it deals its actual DAMAGE to the legs.

Another example of this is the STF, which bases its submission on the state of
the legs, but damages the head.

It is possible that I've simply misread the situation and that the moves
actually damage multiple areas, but I can only comment on what I've seen in my
research. Please contact me if you have significant evidence to the contrary.

The following list indicates ONLY the body part which the submission checks to
set the submission bar. Those moves which I know to damage an area other than
that they check for submissions I have marked with a *.

Back                            Head
----                            ----
Sharpshooter 2         (R)      Full Nelson*               (F)
The Rock Sharpshooter  (R)      Ground Tazzmission         (F)
Haas of Pain           (F)      Back Tazzmission 1
Bearhug 3                       SGT Cobra Clutch           (F)
Torture Rack                    Crippler Crossface         (F/R)
Single Leg Crab 1*              Snapmare and Necklock
Single Leg Crab 2               Neck Lock
Deathlock with Bridge*          Dragon Sleeper 3
Camel Clutch 3*                 Reverse Chin Lock 2
Octopus Stretch 2*              Headlock 3
Steiner Recliner*      (F)      Sleeper Hold and Scissors 2
Edgecator              (R)      Blackout
                                Back Tazzmission 2
                                Million Dollar Dream       (F)
                                Sleeper Hold 3

Legs                            Arms
----                            ----
Trailer Hitch                   Mexican Armbreaker* (F)
Angle Lock 2      (F/R)         Standing Crossface 2
STF*                (R)
El Paso 2*          (F)
Single Leg Crab 3
Triple H Deathlock
Regal Stretch*      (F)
Deathlock STF*      (F)
Sharpshooter 1*     (R)

Can you feel the arm love? I know I can't.

This is made slightly more complicated because the 'damage' step can cause an
auto-tap out if you've dealt enough damage to that part (i.e. made it red). The
chances of an auto-tap DO seem to be dependent upon your submission stat, and
it's definitely dependent on the strength of the move being used. The Angle
Lock 2 has proven particularly prone to doing this in my experience, though I
imagine The Steiner Recliner will also work just as well if not better.

The point is that it is worth experimenting with the moves you are using so
that you KNOW what they're doing. As the FAQ writer I really should do it for
you, but in order to write down the targeted areas of every submission in the
game I'd have to put aside several weeks of playing time. As fellow fans, I'm
sure you can see the quandry. The game wins. Sorry.

As a final note that I've recently worked out, only certain  moves can cause
auto tap-outs. Many of these moves ARE NOT listed here because they don't use
the escape system, and most of the moves that use the escape system don't cause
auto taps anyway. Again, I'm afraid you'll have to experiment with this for
yourselves. Feel free to write to me with your discoveries if you'd like this
FAQ to be updated.



This section is primarily for those who haven't built submission wrestlers
before, but hopefully veterans will at least look at what I've written and


Assuming you are attemping to build the most efficient submission wrestler
ever, you don't need or even want more than one 'escape' submission per
grapple, per back position, per ground grapple. As long as you ensure that all
of these moves target the same area, they will all be basing their position off
the same body part and you'll be able to get a tap out at any time.

Second Important point is: PICK ONE AREA

Going after multiple areas in HCTP is suicide, putting it quite simply. In
every match, to have any chance of winning you need to decide from the get go
which area you are going to target and stick to it RELENTLESSLY. I'm a fairly
relaxed player, I don't play to win and try to make my matches as good as
possible. But when an opponent is flashing your whole body red on the most
basic counter attack, you simply can't afford to mess about. Every move that
you get off has to count. On top of that, if your wrestler really is a
submission wrestler they are going to have a submission finisher, and what's
the point of working the legs if you're using the Mexican Armbreaker?

Third Important point is: MAKE EVERY MOVE COUNT

Mentioned just above. If you've played the game on Smackdown, you know how hard
it can be to get moves off on your opponents. They reverse ALL THE TIME,
especially if they have a high technical rating. Hence you need to be sure that
the moves you're getting off count and work towards your goal of getting a

Fourth important point is: USE THE GROUND TO YOUR ADVANTAGE

What I mean is, use the ground grapples to your advantage. Assuming that you're
making the atypical submission wrestler, your submission and technical ratings
will be at 10, and your endurance probably around 8. This means that you cannot
afford to take stray blows and 'hard' counters from strength 10 opponents (just
an example). The 'hard' counters I'm referring to are the knee and elbows to
the gut that are often used to counter initial grapple attempts. By contrast,
striking and ground grapple counters are 'soft' counters that can look nasty
but actually don't do much damage. The exception to the rule is the 'block your
punch and punch you back' counter which leans towards being a hard counter. In
addition to that, there are many near-safe ways to knock your opponent down,
running attacks and grapples being the big ones. When they're down there, they
only get one chance to reverse your move. If you were to pick them up for a
normal grapple as many power wrestlers MUST if they want to do full damage,
you'd be giving them no less than THREE seperate windows to counter you, and an
option on two possible hard counters. Compared to one chance for a soft
counter, it isn't hard to see why I say: The ground is your friend, so use it.

So, with the basic points out of the way, a little more detail is in order. I'm
splitting this section up by lettering so it makes for easier reading.

A: Running attacks and grapples are hardly ever reversed (and if they are you
can just reverse right back in the case of running attacks), and so they are
brilliant moves for getting your opponent on the ground. The three leg trip
moves also come highly recommended, but have the downside of being grapple
moves that put you in the line of fire for 'hard' counters. Turnbuckle attacks
that drop the opponent near to you if you hit them (Diving spear, Hurracanrana
etc) are also highly recommended. I'm not even sure if they can be reversed.

B: There is actually only a minute difference in damage terms between ground
strikes and ground grapples. Both do damage, though the latter does more than
the former. HOWEVER...the former makes it less likely that the computer will
counter. Yes, you read that right, ground stomps make the computer counter
less. I've noticed a similar phenomenon when using the grapple combo, but its a
little harder to quantify (and still doesn't get you past the hard counter
issue). BY FAR the best ground attack is the Booker T stomp. I've tagged a blue
Triple H with nine of these IN A ROW. Again, if you're being efficient, it
doesn't get better than this. If you're worried about counters, nail one-three
stomps, then go into your chosen ground grapple. Sometimes you'll get
countered, but often you won't. The opponents also hardly ever counter this
move, so just laugh as you stomp them into oblivion.

C: Its possible to lock on two successive non-escape holds in a row. My
personal favourite combo is Armlock 1 to Armlock 2, which link into each other
perfectly (One must be done with the opponent on his front, and turns them onto
their back on completion, the other must be done with them on their back and
turns them onto their front on completion). Regardless, we're talking
efficiency not aesthetics! Pick your poisons and put them to use. Whether it be
two Deathlocks in a row or whatever, this is worth abusing. It often doesn't
work, I must note. The computer will sometimes get up and sometimes counter the
second hold attempt, but when this works it can wear down a limb in no time. I
believe the damage done here comes off your character's strength, but it may
come off submission instead. You'll have to experiment for yourself to be sure.
The reason I'M not sure is that I've noticed a suspicious difference in the
damage done by submission based moves on submission-based characters. It
doesn't help that some 'submission' moves actually seem to base their damage
off your strength stat. An example of this is the ground head grapple Butterfly
Lock. If anyone can confirm or deny my suspicion feel free to e-mail me.

D: Auto-taps are the only way to overcome those annoying people who just won't
tap no matter what you do. This horribly inefficient technique involves getting
the targeted body part to red, and then continually applying your most powerful
holds and submissions on it. Finishers will often get results. Like I said,
unless you're a die-hard, this is an inadvisable approach. It CAN lead to some
truly epic matches, where your bigger, stronger opponent has you on the brink
of death while you cling to their leg like some kind of rabid limpet, but from
an efficiency point of view it sucks everything Satan has to offer. On the
other hand, this can get around the problem of people who refuse to be pinned
by anything short of a tactical nuke on a stick. It still isn't advisable, but
I'm listing it as an option. Also, only certain moves can actually GET auto-
taps. This is a list I probably won't make because it would require too much
time, but the ones I've discovered so far are: Armbar 3 (standing grapple where
you turn upside down) and its ground equivalent, Mexican Armbreaker, Angle Lock
1 and 2, all Butterfly Locks, Leg Lock 11, Cross Armbreaker 1, Sleeper hold and
scissors 1, Regal Stretch, Deathlock STF, Blackout. There are others, though,
so feel free to seek them on your own.

E: Going after the legs and arms is more grief than its worth. There isn't a
single counter in the game which targets these areas, while EVERY hard counter
targets either the body or head. Many times using my arm submission wrestler
I've had my opponent on yellow body purely through counters before I've got
them onto yellow arms, despite using nothing but armlocks. If you're a stylist
then go ahead, if you're after murderous, brutal efficiency, target the body.
They'll tap before they know what's hitting them. Note that the legs are far
easier to work than the arms, which have a remarkable lack of decent holds to
back up its pathetic roster of 'escape' submissions, which are two of the
weakest ones in the game.

F: The bittersweet payoff for going after the arms or legs is that you'll get
to see the 'ow, my arm hurts' or equivalent leg animation. Everyone knows about
the body and head ones, they rule. These don't. They suck. The body and head
ones last ages, and basically give you the time you'll need to recover and get
back to your feet if the move they did knocked you down, or just recover if it
didn't. The arm and leg hurt animations are pretty short, and really don't slow
the opponent down all that much. HOWEVER, they do occur a lot more frequently.
For example, if you've hurt the opponent's legs, the ground reversals where
they kick you off them will trigger the leg hurt animation, giving you the
chance to go back on the offense. The same is true for the arms, and so while
in general it still isn't good to go after the limbs, it can be rewarding,
especially since you'll be damaging the opponent's body through hard counters
anyway. I haven't worked out all the moves that can trigger the pain
animations, but there's loads. Maybe someone else can have a go?


VI) Thanks to: My peers on the HCTP general board who helped me with collecting
information for this FAQ, THQ for producing one of if not the best wrestling
game since No Mercy, and to everyone who reads this for, well, reading it.

My contact details are:

What, did you think I'd give my address out on THIS forum?


VII) Copyright 2003 David Rodoy

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