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    Submission FAQ by iamthedave

    Version: 1.2 | Updated: 12/11/03 | Printable Version | Search Guide | Bookmark Guide

    
    Submission FAQ for HCTP  Version 1.2
    
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    TABLE OF CONTENTS
    
    I) Introduction/Notes
    
    II) Version History
    
    III) List of Submissions by position
    
    IV) List of Submissions by target area
    
    V) General Strategy
    
    VI) Thanks and Contact Details
    
    VII) Copyright information
    
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    I) INTRODUCTION AND NOTES
    
    The new Submission system in HCTP is one of the much-hyped additions to Yuke's
    record-smashing formula, and its one of the areas of the game that has come
    under the most criticism for being straight out too difficult. Well, the point
    of this FAQ is to help you create better submission wrestlers and to get the
    most out of the system.
    
    Below you'll find the list of every 'escape' submission in the game, divided in
    different ways for your viewing and using pleasure. I'm going to be using the
    letter 'R' to indicate those submissions which use the second part of the new
    system, that being crawling to the ropes. I'll also use the letter 'F' to
    indicate finisher-only submissions. So, here's the little key I'm using:
    
    F: Finisher-Only
    R: The submission uses or can use the green 'I'm at the ropes now so please
    make him stop hurting me' triangle
    
    Also note that while this system has been added, the old one is firmly in place
    and is just as open to abuse. However its possible to get a far quicker
    submission using the new system.
    
    Also in this section I introduce the simple guide to how damage affects your
    submission stamina. The 'Chances of Submission' column below takes into account
    your relative submission stats. If you have a Submission rating of 10 and they
    have a rating of 1, you will slaughter them for two reasons. One, you get to
    hold the submission on for 10 seconds, giving you a long period to get that bar
    empty. Two, your button presses MEAN more than theirs. Essentially, they
    will have to be pressing their buttons about ten times faster than you in order
    to avoid tapping. Since the computer 'presses' at a steady rate, a submission
    is therefore guaranteed. Against a human opponent, their wrists will likely get
    tired before yours do :). As a final addition to this, the individual power of
    a move seems to have some bearing on the submission bar. Not a massive amount,
    but a little. Anyway, here's the table:
    
    Body Part Is         Submission Bar Starts At        Chances of Submission
    ------------         ------------------------        --------------------
    Blue                 Almost full, far to the right   Almost nil
    Yellow               Roughly around the centre       Unlikely
    Orange               3/4s empty                      Highly likely
    Red                  Almost empty, far to left       Almost certain*
    
    *Exception to this rule is the dreaded Smackdown! Difficulty problem. On The
    highest setting, it is functionally impossible to get characters with a
    submission rating of 9 or 10 to submit. SOME people say they can do it, and I
    think I may have at some point, but it is extraordinarily unlikely. Hence,
    don't build your submission wrestlers do be JUST that. Take a page of out of
    Angle's book and learn some slams.
    
    *******************************************************************************
    
    
    II) VERSION HISTORY
    
    1.0: All the info!
    
    1.1: Corrected the margins, added a little more data on the auto-tap outs,
    tidied some things up, fixed some grammar. Added this section.
    
    1.2: Corrected the margins AGAIN, added a few new auto-tap submissions,
    slightly restructured the columns of submissions.
    
    *******************************************************************************
    
    
    III) LIST OF SUBMISSIONS BY POSITION
    
    This list is the simplest, most utilitarian, and least useful. It doesn't tell
    you much about the moves, just where they're done from. Still, it helps to
    know. Here you go.
    
    Front Grapples                      Back Grapples
    --------------                      ---------------
    Standing Crossface 2                Dragon Sleeper 2
    Snapmare and Necklock               Blackout
    Trailer Hitch                       Octopus Stretch 2
    Bearhug 3                           Back Tazzmission 2
    Crippler Crossface (F/R)            Million Dollar Dream (F)
    Torture Rack                        Back Tazzmission 1
    Walls of Jericho 1 (F/R)            Sleeper Hold 3
                                        Full Nelson          (F)
    
    
    
    
    Leg Ground Grapples                Head Ground Grapples
    ---------------------              --------------------
    Triple H Deathlock                 Headlock 3
    Deathlock with Bridge              Dragon Sleeper 3
    Edgecator               (R)        Camel Clutch 3
    STF                     (R)        Neck Lock
    Sharpshooter 1          (R)        Reverse Chin Lock 2
    Sharpshooter 2          (R)        Sleeper Hold and Scissors
    Deathlock STF           (F)        Mexican Armbreaker         (F)
    Single Leg Crab 1                  Ground Tazzmission         (F)
    Single Leg Crab 2                  SGT Cobra Clutch           (F)
    Single Leg Crab 3                  Angle Lock 2               (F/R)
    The Rock Sharpshooter   (R)
    Haas of Pain            (F)
    Regal Stretch           (F)
    Steiner Recliner        (F)
    El Paso 2               (F)
    
    
    
    *******************************************************************************
    
    IV) LIST OF SUBMISSIONS BY TARGET AREA
    
    Right, this is a TEENY bit more complicated than the previous list, because
    there are two parts to each submission.
    
    You will notice that in matches such as, say, escape only cage matches that you
    can't actually hold people in submissions. This doesn't mean that no damage is
    done, though. The reason for this is that the button mashing frenzy has no
    effect whatsoever on damage, even though damage does affect the stamina of an
    opponent. So, each submission listed in this FAQ has two bits to them, a
    'damage' stage, and a 'button mashing' stage. Easy, right? Yes, except for the
    fact that in some cases the two stages are different.
    
    What I mean by that is that there are some submissions where the area they
    damage is NOT the area they base the stamina for the button mashing bar from.
    
    Example: Single Leg Crab 1 is a back-based submission, in that it checks the
    state of the opponent's back to determine where it sets the submission bar.
    However, it deals its actual DAMAGE to the legs.
    
    Another example of this is the STF, which bases its submission on the state of
    the legs, but damages the head.
    
    
    It is possible that I've simply misread the situation and that the moves
    actually damage multiple areas, but I can only comment on what I've seen in my
    research. Please contact me if you have significant evidence to the contrary.
    
    The following list indicates ONLY the body part which the submission checks to
    set the submission bar. Those moves which I know to damage an area other than
    that they check for submissions I have marked with a *.
    
    
    
    Back                            Head
    ----                            ----
    Sharpshooter 2         (R)      Full Nelson*               (F)
    The Rock Sharpshooter  (R)      Ground Tazzmission         (F)
    Haas of Pain           (F)      Back Tazzmission 1
    Bearhug 3                       SGT Cobra Clutch           (F)
    Torture Rack                    Crippler Crossface         (F/R)
    Single Leg Crab 1*              Snapmare and Necklock
    Single Leg Crab 2               Neck Lock
    Deathlock with Bridge*          Dragon Sleeper 3
    Camel Clutch 3*                 Reverse Chin Lock 2
    Octopus Stretch 2*              Headlock 3
    Steiner Recliner*      (F)      Sleeper Hold and Scissors 2
    Edgecator              (R)      Blackout
                                    Back Tazzmission 2
                                    Million Dollar Dream       (F)
                                    Sleeper Hold 3
    
    
    
    Legs                            Arms
    ----                            ----
    Trailer Hitch                   Mexican Armbreaker* (F)
    Angle Lock 2      (F/R)         Standing Crossface 2
    STF*                (R)
    El Paso 2*          (F)
    Single Leg Crab 3
    Triple H Deathlock
    Regal Stretch*      (F)
    Deathlock STF*      (F)
    Sharpshooter 1*     (R)
    
    
    
    Can you feel the arm love? I know I can't.
    
    This is made slightly more complicated because the 'damage' step can cause an
    auto-tap out if you've dealt enough damage to that part (i.e. made it red). The
    chances of an auto-tap DO seem to be dependent upon your submission stat, and
    it's definitely dependent on the strength of the move being used. The Angle
    Lock 2 has proven particularly prone to doing this in my experience, though I
    imagine The Steiner Recliner will also work just as well if not better.
    
    The point is that it is worth experimenting with the moves you are using so
    that you KNOW what they're doing. As the FAQ writer I really should do it for
    you, but in order to write down the targeted areas of every submission in the
    game I'd have to put aside several weeks of playing time. As fellow fans, I'm
    sure you can see the quandry. The game wins. Sorry.
    
    As a final note that I've recently worked out, only certain  moves can cause
    auto tap-outs. Many of these moves ARE NOT listed here because they don't use
    the escape system, and most of the moves that use the escape system don't cause
    auto taps anyway. Again, I'm afraid you'll have to experiment with this for
    yourselves. Feel free to write to me with your discoveries if you'd like this
    FAQ to be updated.
    
    
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    V) GENERAL STRATEGY
    
    This section is primarily for those who haven't built submission wrestlers
    before, but hopefully veterans will at least look at what I've written and
    agree.
    
    First important point is: YOU DO NOT NEED THAT MANY 'ESCAPE' SUBMISSIONS.
    
    Assuming you are attemping to build the most efficient submission wrestler
    ever, you don't need or even want more than one 'escape' submission per
    grapple, per back position, per ground grapple. As long as you ensure that all
    of these moves target the same area, they will all be basing their position off
    the same body part and you'll be able to get a tap out at any time.
    
    Second Important point is: PICK ONE AREA
    
    Going after multiple areas in HCTP is suicide, putting it quite simply. In
    every match, to have any chance of winning you need to decide from the get go
    which area you are going to target and stick to it RELENTLESSLY. I'm a fairly
    relaxed player, I don't play to win and try to make my matches as good as
    possible. But when an opponent is flashing your whole body red on the most
    basic counter attack, you simply can't afford to mess about. Every move that
    you get off has to count. On top of that, if your wrestler really is a
    submission wrestler they are going to have a submission finisher, and what's
    the point of working the legs if you're using the Mexican Armbreaker?
    
    Third Important point is: MAKE EVERY MOVE COUNT
    
    Mentioned just above. If you've played the game on Smackdown, you know how hard
    it can be to get moves off on your opponents. They reverse ALL THE TIME,
    especially if they have a high technical rating. Hence you need to be sure that
    the moves you're getting off count and work towards your goal of getting a
    submission.
    
    Fourth important point is: USE THE GROUND TO YOUR ADVANTAGE
    
    What I mean is, use the ground grapples to your advantage. Assuming that you're
    making the atypical submission wrestler, your submission and technical ratings
    will be at 10, and your endurance probably around 8. This means that you cannot
    afford to take stray blows and 'hard' counters from strength 10 opponents (just
    an example). The 'hard' counters I'm referring to are the knee and elbows to
    the gut that are often used to counter initial grapple attempts. By contrast,
    striking and ground grapple counters are 'soft' counters that can look nasty
    but actually don't do much damage. The exception to the rule is the 'block your
    punch and punch you back' counter which leans towards being a hard counter. In
    addition to that, there are many near-safe ways to knock your opponent down,
    running attacks and grapples being the big ones. When they're down there, they
    only get one chance to reverse your move. If you were to pick them up for a
    normal grapple as many power wrestlers MUST if they want to do full damage,
    you'd be giving them no less than THREE seperate windows to counter you, and an
    option on two possible hard counters. Compared to one chance for a soft
    counter, it isn't hard to see why I say: The ground is your friend, so use it.
    
    
    So, with the basic points out of the way, a little more detail is in order. I'm
    splitting this section up by lettering so it makes for easier reading.
    
    A: Running attacks and grapples are hardly ever reversed (and if they are you
    can just reverse right back in the case of running attacks), and so they are
    brilliant moves for getting your opponent on the ground. The three leg trip
    moves also come highly recommended, but have the downside of being grapple
    moves that put you in the line of fire for 'hard' counters. Turnbuckle attacks
    that drop the opponent near to you if you hit them (Diving spear, Hurracanrana
    etc) are also highly recommended. I'm not even sure if they can be reversed.
    
    B: There is actually only a minute difference in damage terms between ground
    strikes and ground grapples. Both do damage, though the latter does more than
    the former. HOWEVER...the former makes it less likely that the computer will
    counter. Yes, you read that right, ground stomps make the computer counter
    less. I've noticed a similar phenomenon when using the grapple combo, but its a
    little harder to quantify (and still doesn't get you past the hard counter
    issue). BY FAR the best ground attack is the Booker T stomp. I've tagged a blue
    Triple H with nine of these IN A ROW. Again, if you're being efficient, it
    doesn't get better than this. If you're worried about counters, nail one-three
    stomps, then go into your chosen ground grapple. Sometimes you'll get
    countered, but often you won't. The opponents also hardly ever counter this
    move, so just laugh as you stomp them into oblivion.
    
    C: Its possible to lock on two successive non-escape holds in a row. My
    personal favourite combo is Armlock 1 to Armlock 2, which link into each other
    perfectly (One must be done with the opponent on his front, and turns them onto
    their back on completion, the other must be done with them on their back and
    turns them onto their front on completion). Regardless, we're talking
    efficiency not aesthetics! Pick your poisons and put them to use. Whether it be
    two Deathlocks in a row or whatever, this is worth abusing. It often doesn't
    work, I must note. The computer will sometimes get up and sometimes counter the
    second hold attempt, but when this works it can wear down a limb in no time. I
    believe the damage done here comes off your character's strength, but it may
    come off submission instead. You'll have to experiment for yourself to be sure.
    The reason I'M not sure is that I've noticed a suspicious difference in the
    damage done by submission based moves on submission-based characters. It
    doesn't help that some 'submission' moves actually seem to base their damage
    off your strength stat. An example of this is the ground head grapple Butterfly
    Lock. If anyone can confirm or deny my suspicion feel free to e-mail me.
    
    D: Auto-taps are the only way to overcome those annoying people who just won't
    tap no matter what you do. This horribly inefficient technique involves getting
    the targeted body part to red, and then continually applying your most powerful
    holds and submissions on it. Finishers will often get results. Like I said,
    unless you're a die-hard, this is an inadvisable approach. It CAN lead to some
    truly epic matches, where your bigger, stronger opponent has you on the brink
    of death while you cling to their leg like some kind of rabid limpet, but from
    an efficiency point of view it sucks everything Satan has to offer. On the
    other hand, this can get around the problem of people who refuse to be pinned
    by anything short of a tactical nuke on a stick. It still isn't advisable, but
    I'm listing it as an option. Also, only certain moves can actually GET auto-
    taps. This is a list I probably won't make because it would require too much
    time, but the ones I've discovered so far are: Armbar 3 (standing grapple where
    you turn upside down) and its ground equivalent, Mexican Armbreaker, Angle Lock
    1 and 2, all Butterfly Locks, Leg Lock 11, Cross Armbreaker 1, Sleeper hold and
    scissors 1, Regal Stretch, Deathlock STF, Blackout. There are others, though,
    so feel free to seek them on your own.
    
    E: Going after the legs and arms is more grief than its worth. There isn't a
    single counter in the game which targets these areas, while EVERY hard counter
    targets either the body or head. Many times using my arm submission wrestler
    I've had my opponent on yellow body purely through counters before I've got
    them onto yellow arms, despite using nothing but armlocks. If you're a stylist
    then go ahead, if you're after murderous, brutal efficiency, target the body.
    They'll tap before they know what's hitting them. Note that the legs are far
    easier to work than the arms, which have a remarkable lack of decent holds to
    back up its pathetic roster of 'escape' submissions, which are two of the
    weakest ones in the game.
    
    F: The bittersweet payoff for going after the arms or legs is that you'll get
    to see the 'ow, my arm hurts' or equivalent leg animation. Everyone knows about
    the body and head ones, they rule. These don't. They suck. The body and head
    ones last ages, and basically give you the time you'll need to recover and get
    back to your feet if the move they did knocked you down, or just recover if it
    didn't. The arm and leg hurt animations are pretty short, and really don't slow
    the opponent down all that much. HOWEVER, they do occur a lot more frequently.
    For example, if you've hurt the opponent's legs, the ground reversals where
    they kick you off them will trigger the leg hurt animation, giving you the
    chance to go back on the offense. The same is true for the arms, and so while
    in general it still isn't good to go after the limbs, it can be rewarding,
    especially since you'll be damaging the opponent's body through hard counters
    anyway. I haven't worked out all the moves that can trigger the pain
    animations, but there's loads. Maybe someone else can have a go?
    
    *******************************************************************************
    
    
    VI) Thanks to: My peers on the HCTP general board who helped me with collecting
    information for this FAQ, THQ for producing one of if not the best wrestling
    game since No Mercy, and to everyone who reads this for, well, reading it.
    
    My contact details are: edge_braak@yahoo.co.uk
    
    What, did you think I'd give my address out on THIS forum?
    
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    VII) Copyright 2003 David Rodoy
    
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