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===================================================
~+~+~+~+~+ DEAD OR ALIVE 3: LS Combo FAQ +~+~+~+~+~
===================================================

by  ARdeMesa ("Raigaa")
    ardemesa@hotmail.com

"Limbo Stun" combo faq
Dead or Alive 3 (XBoX)
Version 1.40: Apr, 2002
By A.R.deMesa, ardemesa@hotmail.com


This FAQ has been happily provided to the following, and ONLY the following:

http://www.gamefaqs.com


====================================
~+~+~+~+~+ update history +~+~+~+~+~
====================================

Apr 2002 - version 1.40 
Mar 2002 - version 1.30
Mar 2002 - version 1.20
Mar 2002 - version 1.12 
Mar 2002 - version 1.10
Mar 2002 - version 1.00


===========================================
~+~+~+~+~+ copyright information +~+~+~+~+~
===========================================

All information contained in this document Copyright 2002 A.R.deMesa.
This document may be distributed freely (and ONLY freely) and electronically.  
If reproduced anywhere in whole or in part, this document may not be used for 
promotional or profitable purposes.
If placed on a webpage or website or any other public domain, this document 
must be reproduced in its entirety without alteration in any form, unless given 
written permission by this author A.R.deMesa, and this auther only.  Any 
information from this document (whether quoted or not) that is used elsewhere 
should have this author's name stated clearly in acknowledgment.

This document created by A.R.deMesa [ardemesa@hotmail.com]

Any print-based, broadcast-based, or electronic-based publishers or 
publications are expressly forbidden from usage of any information or ideas 
expressed within this document.

Dead Or Alive 3 and characters are (c) Tecmo
XBoX are (c) Microsoft
Soul Calibur and Tekken are (c) Namco
Virtua Fighter and DreamCast are (c) Sega

All copyrights and trademarks not mentioned as such are acknowledged and 
respected.  If any violation has occurred please contact the author for the 
situation to be remedied immediately.


   =======================================
1) ~+~+~+~+~+ TABLE OF CONTENTS +~+~+~+~+~
   =======================================

 1) Table of Contents
 2) Introduction
 3) FAQ Conventions

 4) "Stance" descriptions
 5) LS Combo Primer

 6) Ayane
 7) Bass
 8) Bayman
 9) Brad
10) Christie
11) Helena
12) Jann Lee
13) Zack

14) Game Engine overview

15) Revision history, Planned future updates
16) Acknowledgements


   ==================================
2) ~+~+~+~+~+ INTRODUCTION +~+~+~+~+~
   ==================================
     
     I'm a big fan of fighting games, from the good 'ol Capcom classics to the 
current 3D fighters. 
     Why this game?  Because I love it.  Have been a fan since DOA2 on the DC, 
although I did own the first DOA on the PlayStation before I got my DC.  I enjoy 
others, such as Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, and yes, even Tekken (*gasp*).  
But those games have enough faqs and fans.

     This guide only concerns a specific part of the game - combos.  AND FOR 
NOW, more specifically, "limbo stun" (LS) combos.  Some discussion on these 
"special" combos can already be found on the GameFaq DOA3 forums.  Instead of 
having to search for each post whenever someone asked:

- "What does 'closed stance' mean?"
- "what is a 'limbo stun'?"
- "How can you say this is guaranteed after the first hit?" 

I figured I'd just start a FAQ to collect what we've found so that we can direct 
these questions to one place.  I DO plan to expand this into a "general" combo 
faq in the future - but I'm using LS combos to start.

     Why just "limbo stun" combos?  Why not just make a faq on combos in 
general?  Well, I just think they're unique enough to merit special attention.  
For "Limbo Stun" combos, you must have more than a basic knowledge of the game 
engine collision detection to know how these work, unlike "regular" combos, 
which just require you to memorize certain sequences of button presses.  Finding 
combos is easy - finding LS Combos is not, unless you have a knowledge of how 
they work (since I'm sure anyone who's played DOA2/3 has seen the LS happen, but 
most just didn't really know why).

     Limbo Stuns are useful because an LS can get you a few extra hits while the 
victim is on the ground, BEFORE you actually launch them.  And a few extra 
hits/damage "for free" is pretty nice, IMO. 

     How are they special?  Well, before DOA2, a "combo" in a fighting game 
meant that the hits were guaranteed - that's what makes a combo a "true" combo, 
and not merely a "string" of successive hits.  When DOA2 came, that all changed 
(for those who play DOA) because of the game engine - "holds" allow a victim to 
"break out" or "recover" from a "stun", and defeat the combo.  So the DOA 
player's definition of combo is a bit looser than it is for other games.

     In DOA3, the only "true" combos are those hits that occur on a victim that 
is airborne, or is "back-turned".  The first instance is a "juggle" - common to 
most any fighting game.  Since DOA2, the only instance where a fighter on the 
ground CANNOT perform a hold, is when they're "back-turned."

     It's easy to see how to get juggles - but how to get the opponent to give 
his/her back to you?  I mean, they could turn their back to you on purpose - 
some characters are pretty proficient at fighting with their back turned - and 
simply stun from there.  Problem is, you didn't force them into that situation 
in any way - you simply took advantage of the circumstances, but are still 
dependent on the victim to place him/herself in that situation.  Even better 
then, are some holds/throws that leave the attacker in a position where he has 
the "opponent's back."  One can try to stun from there.

     Another way to get your opponent's back is through strikes FROM THE FRONT.  
Some characters have this ability to some degree.  They have the ability to 
place the victim in a stun that I call a "Limbo Stun", which is registered by 
the game engine as having the victim "back-turned" - which means they cannot 
recover out of the stun by performing a hold.

     So why not make a faq concerning "back turned" stuns in general?  That's 
really what the LS is - just a "back turned" stun.  So what if you can get it 
from the front sometimes?

     I don't know, I guess I just like them, that's all.  And that's good enough 
for me!  Besides, shouldn't GUARANTEED hits be good enough for anybody?

     I will end off by saying that LS combos are special combos with one or 
two extra hits "for free", but more importantly, come WITHOUT THE THREAT OF 
HOLDS!  The key is that once the victim is in the LS, the victim cannot recover 
and perform a hold against you.  

     I don't know about you, but HAVING YOUR LAUNCHER GUARANTEED is good enough 
reason to learn these combos for me.
	
     BTW, you CAN use the info from the JUGGLE FOLLOWUP sections in "regular" 
combos, so this FAQ CAN be considered useful in making up combos in general. 

     A note about usefulness of LS combos in general:
Even if you are in the wrong stance, the combos will STILL WORK as good as ANY 
OTHER combos out there.  The difference being, you'll simply knock down (not a 
bad thing), or get the "stomach hurts A LOT" stun where they fall forward on 
their face to the ground (not a bad thing either).  That stun, while it can be 
interrupted by a hold, is a very lengthy stun in which the victim recovers 
knocked down.
     So just for argument's sake, let's just say that happens (you get the 
other stun instead).  It's a long stun (you can be patient), in which the 
opponent MUST attempt a hold, or else end up on the ground.  You can wait for a 
hold, then throw - you have all day to wait for it.  Or, you can even do 
NOTHING, wait till they fall, and get a ground-hit (or in Bayman's case, ground-
throw) FOR FREE.  Nothing wrong with that, is there?  Or, you can simply treat 
it like you do EVERY OTHER STUN in the game (only most of those stuns are 
SHORTER in duration, and DON'T knock down, making them INFERIOR), and just 
attempt to launch, extend the stun, etc.  Therefore, the ONLY drawback in 
*hitting* the LS-move "wrong", is that it ceases to be "special", but it in no 
way puts the attacker at a disadvantage over other mid-hits.  That means, so 
long as you *hit* with that move, GOOD things will happen - getting the LS is 
just the best case scenario, but the other scenarios are nothing to scoff at, 
either.
     Getting the LS (on purpose) is NOT going to drastically change your winning 
percentage or anything - you don't need the LS to be good.  But everyone should 
be aware of its properties, and be able to exploit it should it happen.
     The most useful thing about the LS is to just be able to RECOGNIZE it when 
it happens, and be aware of the moves that can get it.  No, you cannot do them 
all day - just like how you can't do any other single move/tactic over and over.  
LS-moves should be compared to OTHER mid-level hitting blows, and in that 
respect, they CAN be pretty special.  
     Moves that get the LS are NOT "super" moves by any means, and they don't 
imbalance the game in any way.  But they GUARANTEE THE NEXT HIT  - which 
DOES have some significance, since there are FEW moves in the game that allow 
you to do that (Jann Lee's mid-punch hold, for example).  And since the LS is a 
back-turned stun, (making the next hit a counter blow), it pretty much means 
that your LAUNCHER is guaranteed (and just for comparision sake, Jann's mid-
punch hold DOESN'T do that).  So while the LS is not the end-all be-all, they 
are not to be dismissed, either, IMO.  You don't even need "additional hits" 
(some turn the victim around, or cause short stuns).  To keep it safe, maybe 
just launch right away - you've no need to fear a hold.


   =====================================
3) ~+~+~+~+~+ FAQ CONVENTIONS +~+~+~+~+~
   =====================================

Legend:

   u = press up          U = hold up
   d = press down        D = hold down
   f = press forward     F = hold forward     
   b = press back        D =hold down        

 qcf = "quarter circle forward" = press d,d/f,f        in one motion
 qcb = "quarter circle back"    = press d,d/b,b        in one motion
 hcf = "half-circle forward"    = press b,d/b,d,d/f,f  in one motion
 hcb = "half-circle back"       = press f,d/f,d,d/b,b  in one motion

   P = Punch button
   K = Kick button
Free = Free button

   H = High-Level
   M = Mid-Level
   L = Low-Level
   G = Ground-Level


====================================
~+~+~+~+~+ Notation Notes +~+~+~+~+~
====================================

/ = denotes a diagonal direction pad (e.g. d/f means press down & forward)
+ = press buttons together (e.g. P+K = press Punch and Kick simultaneously)
. = button presses are to be performed in succession, but with a delay
~ = button presses are to be pressed in quick, but discrete, sequence

- buttons and directions are to be pressed in succession WHETHER OR NOT they 
  are separated by a comma (",")
        
  for example:     P,PP,P = press Punch button 4 times
                     PPPP = press Punch button 4 times


   =========================================
4) ~+~+~+~+~+ STANCE DESCRIPTIONS +~+~+~+~+~
   =========================================

     First, we have to go over what "stance" means - more specifically, "OPEN" 
and "CLOSED" stances.  While a few characters have specific stances where they 
change fighting "pose" to deliver different attacks (Brad's lie-down, Helena's 
Bokuho, or anyone who is "back-turned" for example) open/closed stance only 
refers to both fighters "feet positions" in relation TO EACH OTHER.

     The fighters in this game have either one foot in front of the other.  If 
both fighters have the SAME FOOT forward (i.e. both have left foot forward), 
then they are in a CLOSED STANCE.  If the fighters have the OPPOSITE FOOT 
forward (one fighter has left foot forward, other fighter has right foot 
forward), then they are in an OPEN STANCE.

	A way to visualize this without having to look at the feet is to just look 
at their hips.  Imagine if the fighters were to "relax" and stand up straight, 
without moving their feet:

If they would end up facing the SAME DIRECTION, they are in an OPEN STANCE.
If they would end up facing the OPPOSITE DIRECTION, they are in a CLOSED STANCE.

     It's really not that hard, once you get used to it.  But even if you don't 
"get it" at first (you will over time), try to get the LS anyway.  Why?  Because 
you still have a 50% chance of guessing correctly!  So even if you're not sure 
of the stance, try out the combos anyway, and see what happens.  If you ARE in 
the "wrong" stance, you'll either knock the character down, or get a "stomach 
hurts a lot" (as described in my Jann Lee FAQ) stun where they grab their belly 
and simply keel over falling forward on their face - WHICH IS AS GOOD A STUN AS 
ANY.  Regular strategies would reply in this case (launch, extend stun, or look 
for the hi counter throw).  LS combos are just regular combos with an extra hit 
or two.  

     Well... now that we got that stuff out of the way, on to the combos!


     Oops, almost forgot.  What the heck is a "Limbo Stun"?  Well, here's how I 
described it (from my Jann Lee FAQ):

     "Limbo Stun"
UNRECOVERABLE (cannot perform a hold during this stun, i.e. totally helpless).  
Long Stun.   Caused by a mid-level blow to the back delivered in a sideways 
motion.  Victim bends backward in great pain, as if to "do the limbo".  Falls 
backward to ground.  THE BEST STUN IN THE GAME - since you can get this stun 
FROM THE FRONT!  Other "unrecoverable" stuns require the opponents to be 
back-turned.


   =====================================
5) ~+~+~+~+~+ LS COMBO PRIMER +~+~+~+~+~
   =====================================

     In each character's section, a description of the combo "STARTER" that gets 
the LS is given, as well as the conditions required (normal or critical hit, and 
what stance you need).  
     After that, you can pretty much do ANYTHING YOU WANT.  As the opponent is 
now back-turned, they cannot perform a hold to escape.  I have given some 
examples though - a series of "ADDITIONAL HITS" to perform before the 
"LAUNCHER", as well as the "JUGGLE FOLLOWUP".

So you can pretty much follow it like a tree:

     STARTER -> ADDITIONAL HITS -> LAUNCHER -> JUGGLE FOLLOWUP.  

I'll then finish each section with some examples.  The number in the square 
brackets following the combo is the damage rating.


     Advice on normal hits:
These strikes must land when the opponent is in a "neutral" state (i.e. not 
attacking).  These can occur when the opponent is "standing still" (not likely), 
in the "recovery frames" of a move (more likely), or when hit while performing a 
hold that misses (which requires some set-up, since LS come from mid-hits).  But 
"accidentally" connecting with the move on a critical hit isn't that bad, since 
if these moves hit on a critical hit, they simply knock down in most cases.  So 
even if you DON'T GET the LS, you're still pretty safe anyway - since when is 
getting a hit a bad thing?  Also, placing the victim in an LS puts them into 
"critical hit status".

     Advice on critical hits:
These strikes must land when the opponent is either "attacking" (an "attack" 
means BOTH a strike or throw), or is already critically stunned.  So "critical 
hit status" is basically using "counter blow" (striking an attacking opponent) 
or a hitting an already "stunned" opponent.  
     Because of this, critical hits are often more common than normal hits.  
Normal hits usually require some amount of patience and planning (waiting for 
long recovery moves), set-up (landing the hit when the opponent performed a 
hold that was NOT mid), or comatose (since when is an opponent just standing 
still and NOT guarding?).  For this reason, LS combos are easier to get from 
characters with starters that are required to hit as a critical hit to get the 
LS.  It's simply a matter of playing the "priority game", or even better, 
hitting the opponent with the combo starter while they are performing a throw.  
Take note however, that should the move land as a normal hit, the effect on the 
victim can be very slight.  While these moves have good recovery, the defender 
recovers very quickly as well.

     Advice on "heavyweights":
As the character's weight affects juggle height, some combos do not work on them 
since these characters (Bass, Leon, and to a lesser extent Bayman), have the 
advantage of not being juggled as quite as high as the others.  So these 
characters sometimes must be given juggle followups that have less hits, hit 
low, etc.  For these characters, adjust accordingly.

     Advice on "additional hits":
This is due to testing done on "stun damage thresholds."  Basically, a 
"critically stunned" victim can only take a certain amount damage (get it?  Like 
"pain threshold"!), before they get knocked down, even if the final hit doesn't 
have knockdown properties (like a jab, for example).  I'm not any closer to 
figuring out the "formula", but I did find this:

     - Counter blows give a certain amount of threshold.  
     - Normal blows give more threshold than counter blows (can add more hits).
     - Hi counter blows give more threshold than normal blows (even more hits).

Doesn't make sense, does it?  Shouldn't counter blows and normal blows be 
switched?  What this means is that basically, you can add MUCH more hits on 
throwing opponent.  

[runs away from the flood of "new" hi counter blow-only combos that we're all 
going to make]


     Advice on "slick surfaces":
Also take note of the effects of fighting on water, snow, or ice.  Many blows 
(particularly low hits) have different hit properties on these surfaces, 
generally causing the victim to stumble more (or even be knocked down).  Because 
of this, some subsequent hits may actually whiff (high hits may pass over the 
victim), or simply knock down.  While this is safe, it IS a waste of juggle 
potential - so you may just want to launch soon after the LS.  Although you 
didn't get to add as many extra hits, you can be consoled by the fact that 
having your launcher being punished by a hold is something you need not fear.
     It seems that for certain blows, being hit while on a slick surface is akin 
to being in a critical hit status.  For the purpose of this faq, it means that 
strikes that require that the victim be in "critical hit status" to obtain the 
LS have a much easier time on these surfaces - for even if the blow hit on a 
normal hit, the victim will still be forced into an LS.

 
   ===========================
6) ~+~+~+~+~+ AYANE +~+~+~+~+~
   ===========================

     Ayane's LS combo starter "Sho-Ayane" is nice because it give the LS as long 
as it hits from a closed stance.  Whether the hit lands as a normal or critical 
hit doesn't matter.  Not only that, the move has INSANE range (2.5 dash-steps! 
Better range than her "u+P+Free"), and has pretty good recovery.  
     Though quick, it doesn't come out instantly.  So while it may be difficult 
in close, it's fairly effective it halting advances.  Just out of throw-range or
out of universal side-kick range ("d/f+K" for most characters) is probably best, 
to complement her other distance-moves (like her "u+P+Free", "qcf+K", "b+P", and 
"u/f~K").

     What Ayane lacks is the ability to add much more than a P, d+P (launch) or 
go straight into a launcher.  Everything she tries seems to knock the opponent 
down, or too far away.  And if she lands the "Sho-ayane" as a critical hit, she 
must launch right away (u+K or b+P), as everything else knocks down.

     On a hi counter blow however, she can add additional hits.  Not to mention 
THE DAMAGE!  The "Sho Ayane" gets [48], ground hits are adjusted by 60%, and 
juggle hits are adjusted by 75%.  Throwers beware!

     Still, it's nice just to know that the launcher is guaranteed.  Overall, 
Ayane's LS combos are nice...on a normal hit, you can use the "P, Free, d+P 
(launcher)", which is easy to get 90+ damage with.  Or, on a critical hit 
(forcing the use of "u+K" or "b+P" as the next hit), you can STILL easily get 
90+ damage with.  Like I said... nice!


     STARTER:

- b+K+Free (closed stance). "Sho-Ayane"


     ADDITIONAL HITS:

- PP Free (hi counter blow only)


     LAUNCHER:

- u+K
- b+P (Ayane recovers back turned)

- P Free, d+P  although the jab recovers quickly enough that Free-cancelling is 
               not necessary, if you do this, just be sure to delay the d+P, to 
               avoid performing a double-jab)

- d/f+PP (hi counter blow only, Ayane recovers back-turned)

- PPK (hi counter blow only, Ayane recovers back-turned)


     JUGGLE FOLLOWUP:

- D/B+PK
- PP KK
- PP f+PP
- PP f+P, u/b+K
- PP f+KK
- d/f d/f+PK
- PPP, d+P
- P+K, PP d+P
- P+K, P u/b+K
- P+K, P d+K
- b+P.K
- b+P.d+K


Back turned followups:

- D/B+PK
- K+Free
- u/b+K
- b+PPP, d+P
- PP D+PK
- PP f+P, d+K
- PP f+P.K
- PP b+PPP, d+P
- b+PP u/b+K
- PP b+PP u/b+K


     EXAMPLES:

     These are all ASSUMING the starter connects as a NORMAL hit.  Therefore the 
damage rating given is THE LEAST you can inflict.  In real gameplay, you often 
get critical hits, which increases the damage by about 10-35 or so.  In 
particular, people trying to throw Ayane should beware her "Sho-Ayane" move. 


   - b+K+Free (LS), u+K (launch), PP f+PP  [77]

   - b+K+Free (LS), u+K (launch), PP f+KK  [77]

   - b+K+Free (LS), u+K (launch), PP f+P, u/b+K  [85]


Back-turned combos:

   - b+K+Free (LS), b+P (launch), PP D+PK  [74]

   - b+K+Free (LS), b+P (launch), PP f+P.K [78]

   - b+K+Free (LS), b+P (launch), PP f+P, d+K  [78]

   - b+K+Free (LS), b+P (launch), PP f+P, Free, u/b+K  [83]


   - b+K+Free (LS), b+P (launch), b+PPP, d+P  [72+10]

   - b+K+Free (LS), b+P (launch), b+PP u/b+K  [75]


   - b+K+Free (LS), b+P (launch), PP b+PP u/b+K  [80]

   - b+K+Free (LS), b+P (launch), PP b+PPP, d+P  [75+10]


Only on normal, or hi counter blow (damage rating assumes only a normal hit):

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+PP  [84]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+KK  [84]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP KK  [87]


   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), P+K, P d+K  [82]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), P+K, P u/b+K  [85]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), P+K, PP, d+P  [82+10]


   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+P, Free, u/b+K  [92]


   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+K, Free, u+K, d+K  [84+10]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+K, Free, f+K d+K  [94]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+K, Free, b+P d+K  [95]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+K, f+PP  [97]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+K, PPP, d+P  [94+10]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+K, PP f+K, d+K  [104]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+K, PP f+KK  [105]

   - b+K+Free (LS), P Free, d+P (launch), PP f+K, PP f+PP  [105]


Hi counter blow only combos.  For these, you can substitute the "d/f+PP" 
launcher for a "PP, Free, b+P" sequence, for the same damage.  Throwers beware!

   - b+K+Free (LS), d/f+PP (launch), u/b+K  [103]

   - b+K+Free (LS), d/f+PP (launch), D/B+PK  [104]

   - b+K+Free (LS), d/f+PP (launch), K+Free  [105]

   - b+K+Free (LS), d/f+PP (launch), PP f+P.K  [124]

   - b+K+Free (LS), d/f+PP (launch), PP b+PP u/b+K  [127]

   - b+K+Free (LS), d/f+PP (launch), PP b+PPP, d+P  [120+10]

   - b+K+Free (LS), d/f+PP (launch), PP f+P, Free, u/b+K  [132]


More hi counter blow only combos, with no launcher!

   - b+K+Free (LS), PP, P+K P u/b+K  [107]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PP, P+K PPP, d+P  [103+10]


Even more hi counter blow only combos:

   - b+K+Free (LS), PPK (launch), u/b+K  [106]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PPK (launch), K+Free  [108]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PPK (launch), PP D+PK  [121]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PPK (launch), PP b+PPP, d+K  [123]


   - b+K+Free (LS), PP Free, u+K (launch), D/B+PK  [106]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PP Free, u+K (launch), f+K.d+K  [108]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PP Free, u+K (launch), b+PK  [113]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PP Free, u+K (launch), PP f+PP  [123]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PP Free, u+K (launch), PP f+KK  [124]

   - b+K+Free (LS), PP Free, u+K (launch), PP f+P, u/b+K  [135]


   ==========================
7) ~+~+~+~+~+ BASS +~+~+~+~+~
   ==========================

     Yes, Bass :)  Usage of these combo is a MUST for any Bass player.  Again, 
Bass's LS starter (I call it his "Side Hook", but it's really just the first hit 
of his "Wild Swing") is nice because it requires a critical hit situation to 
work.  
     It has pretty good execution, though it's range is short.  Recovery is 
good too (good enough that you don't *need* to Free-cancel, although doing so is 
advisable).  Just toss it out every so often.  If you don't get the LS, but get 
the "other" stun, regular strategies apply: 

1) wait for hold.  Then throw 
2) wait for hold.  If hold doesn't come, they'll fall. Simply "d+K" (or pick-up)
2) complete "wild swing" to knockback with a mid-hit
3) use ff+K instead of "wild swing" to knockback with mid-hit with more delay
4) use d/b+P to knock-down with a low hit
5) use d/f+P to extend stun with a mid hit
6) use d+K to extend stun with a low hit
7) use P+K to launch with a hi hit
8) use u+K to launch with a mid hit

...I'm sure you get the picture.  This is IF you DON'T get the LS...


     "Slick surface" considerations:
     Even better, if Bass is fighting on a "slick surface".  No need to worry 
about a thing - the "Side Hook" will give you the LS in a normal hit situation 
as well (so long as the fighters are in an open stance, of course).  The 
downside, is that Bass's combos may have to be shorter, or have less high hits, 
since the victim won't be juggled as high on a normal hit.  Corollary to this is 
that the damage inflicted will be a little less, due to the loss of a counter 
blow bonus that you would normally have.  Overall, fighting on a slick surface 
is desirable, for while the resultant combo is less damaging, the LS has a 
higher chance of occurring.

     His combos can easily inflict 90+ damage, not including any wall damage 
bonuses, as well as being guaranteed after the first hit.


     STARTER:

- f+P Free (open stance, critical hit).  "Side Hook".
  
  (although the f+P recovers quickly enough that Free-cancelling is unnecessary, 
  just be sure to delay the next punch follows, to avoid a "wild swing")


     ADDITIONAL HITS:

- d/f+P


     LAUNCHER:

- d/f d/f+P
- u+K

     JUGGLE FOLLOWUP:

- qcf+P
- d/f+P
- P+K
- PP, P+Free, P+Free (what did you expect?)
- u/f+PK, P+Free, P+Free (an even better air throw juggle followup)
- f+PP
- f+KP, d+K
- u/f+PP, d+K
- PPP, d+K
- PP d+P
- d/f+P+K, P
- b+PPP
- u/f+PK d+P
- u/f+PKP, d+K
- d/f d/f+P, d+K
- ff+K
- PPK


     EXAMPLES:

These all assume a "counter blow", as the "critical hit".  
	
   - f+P (LS), d/f+P, d/f d/f+P (launch), PPK  [91]

   - f+P (LS), d/f+P, d/f d/f+P (launch), f+PP  [92]

   - f+P (LS), d/f+P, d/f d/f+P (launch), PP, P+Free, P+Free  [96]

   - f+P (LS), d/f+P, d/f d/f+P (launch), PPP, d+K  [91+12]

   - f+P (LS), d/f+P, d/f d/f+P (launch), P+K, f+KP, d+K  [103+12]


   - f+P (LS), u+K (launch), P+K f+KP, d+K  [89+12]

   - f+P (LS), u+K (launch), u/f+PK, P+Free, P+Free  [98]

   - f+P (LS), u+K (launch), u/f+PKP, d+K  [90+12]


   ============================
8) ~+~+~+~+~+ BAYMAN +~+~+~+~+~
   ============================

     One reason why he's my favorite character?  His "Sidewinder LS" combos.  
After an LS hit, his combos can get pretty lengthy.  Enough time for the victim 
to throw his controller down and say "Bayman is SOOOOOOO FREAKIN' CHEAP" before 
picking it up again.  Not that the LS combos are excessively damaging, but the 
length of time the victim is sitting there helpless while his fighter gets 
repeatedly hit in the back sure is disheartening. Bayman OWNS!

     Opponent who misses a move with long recovery = A LOT OF PAIN!

     While Bayman is already good without his Sidewinder, I'm surprised that 
very few players appreciate the potential of this move.  Execution seems 
pretty good (it's not THAT slow), and although it isn't good from a distance 
(like Ayane's), it's range is pretty good.  Granted, the recovery isn't one of 
its strong points.  Still, the sidewinder would have made his regular knee "f+K" 
obsolete, if it weren't for the fact that the knee is an auto-combo (flame 
stinger "f+KP", the second punch is essentially the "ff+P" flame knuckle).  The 
resemblance to the regular knee helps Bayman get the "Sidewinder" 
move to hit, which without the "flame stinger", would be a difficult move use.

     See, the Flame Stinger "f+KP" is a pretty decent move.  The punch ALWAYS 
stuns whether it hits normal state, or critical hit, or if the first knee is 
blocked, etc.  It's one of his best stun moves.  If you can condition your 
opponent to attempt to hold the second punch, you've got them in heaps of 
trouble.  Needless to say, delaying the punch also works well to throw them off.  

1) f+KP  Get the "flame stinger" to connect a few times.  After they see the  
         knee, they'll have a greater tendency to perform a high hold.

2) f+K, K+Free  In addition to throwing them when they high hold, you can just  
                use the Sidewinder.  Delaying the "f+KP" to match the rhythm of 
                the "f+K, K+Free" sequence, makes the deception more convincing.

It's all about conditioning them by being effective with a simple knee.  Just 
don't do something stupid like use 2 knees in a row, BEFORE you've conditioned 
them to expect that punch (obviously!).  Then you'll never land the Sidewinder.


     Another thing to do is to incorporate the Sidewinder into the "double jab" 
patterns.  The versatility of using the double-jab as *pokes*, help set up the 
Sidewinder nicely.  The double-jab is also a potentially good way to condition 
the opponent to perform high holds.  

     Like with everyone in the game, the second jab is guaranteed when the first 
connects on a normal hit.  So when the jabs are used as a poke (that's a jab's 
job, its ONLY job), the double jabs are an effective harassment tool.  Its 
quickness being the other asset, as it's hard to hold the first one without a 
lot of luck, or superior guess-work (if they can predict your jab patterns, then 
you're really in trouble!).  The key is to just don't make the rhythm 
predictable - use variety of delays between each *set* of doubles.  I don't mean 
delay BETWEEN each jab, but use variety between every *two*.  It should be "Pa-
Pow...Pa-Pow...Pa-Pow", and not "Pow.Pow...Pow..Pow".
     Then, you just condition them to hold high.  This is easy with Bayman 
because he has a few good auto-combos that hit high right after the PP

1) PP P    It's too hard to hold the first jab, and the second jab is   
   PP b+P  guaranteed, so the earliest an opponent can perform a hold once 
           they've been caught with the double-jab is the third hit.  These two 
           sequences both hit high, and their effects make the opponent to want 
           to avoid getting hit by performing a hold.  The "knuckle shot" always 
           stuns, so people want to hold that.  And the "Storm Blast" can be 
           followed by either another high hit "...Trass" or a low hit 
           "...javelin", and since guessing between these two is dangerous (one 
           launches, the other knocks down), so people want to end this before 
           they get to that point, by performing a hold on the third hit.  Not 
           to mention the threat of a throw.  Being effective with one, or both 
           of these moves, getting them to hold high, makes them open to mid 
           hits.  

2) PP, K+Free  This is in addition to the usual "double-jab, throw" patterns, or 
               using "PPK" to avoid those high holds.  But by now you get the 
               idea: just get them expecting high hits, conditioning them NOT to 
               hold mid, and connecting the Sidewinder becomes easier.  

I won't even get into conditioning them to hold low using P f+P d+K, because 
this is not a Bayman FAQ. 

     Not to mention the obvious applications of using the Sidwinder:

a) to punish long recoveries (like a flipkick, or a move like Ayane's qcf+K)

b) to punish whiffed moves (like ducking Hayabusas K+Free sequence)

c) to punish throw attempts.  Toss it out when you think Bayman might get 
   thrown (like if they're slow to punish a blocked b+P d+K, for example).  
   Using the sidewinder on a throwing opponent is ideal.


     Otherwise, trying to land the Sidewinder "on its own" will prove difficult, 
as it's not as strong as other LS-moves.  Like everything in this game, you just 
have to set things up.  And of course, if the opponent tends to block (instead 
of hold), then the using the Sidewinder is not recommended (its recovery is such 
that Bayman can easily get thrown), so Bayman will have to rely on other his 
other strengths.


     Critical Hit Vs. Normal Hit
His "Sidewinder" can hit as a normal or critical hit.  The difference being, if 
you connect on a critical hit, you cannot add much in terms of additional hits, 
since more powerful hits tend to exceed the victim's "stun damage threshold" and 
knock the victim down.  So even though the examples given assume a normal hit, 
you may want to stick to just one or no jabs in potential counter blow 
situations, to ensure that you will launch the opponent.  By this I mean if 
you're "not sure" if you got the normal hit or not, since you're not sure if the 
opponent was in a "neutral state" when you hit them with the "sidewinder".  I 
know you can simply look for the "counter blow" message to appear, but I 
personally don't have the ability to switch my attention back and 
forth like that.  Maybe I'm just too slow :)


     "Sidewinder" as a Hi counter blow
Insane!  Big damage, not because of the damage bonus to the Sidewinder (making 
it a mere [30]), but for the amount of cheap hits Bayman can toss in. Throwers 
beware!  That's all I have to say.

     
     STARTER:

- K+Free (closed stance) "Sidewinder".


     ADDITIONAL HITS:

- PP Free, P
- d/f+P

- f+KP         (normal hit only)
- PP u/f~P     (normal hit only)
- PP, d/f+P    (normal hit only)
- PP Free, PP  (normal hit only)

- PP Free, PP Free, P  (hi counter blow only)


     LAUNCHER:

- qcf+P (decent execution, good juggle height, but range is relatively short)
- qcb+P (decent execution, a little better range, but Bayman doesn't have many 
         followups with his back turned)

- b+P+K (more juggle height, longer reach, but longer execution time makes
         calling it "guaranteed" somewhat suspect.  Also, the least damage)

- u/f+K (decent power + good reach + decent execution time = overall best 
         option)

- d/f d/f+P (most power, shortest range, poor recovery)

- PP b+PK (normal and hi counter blow only)


     JUGGLE FOLLOWUP:

- ff+P
- d/f+P
- PPK
- PKK
- P f+PK
- P f+P d+K, d+K
- PPP, d+K
- PPP, d+P+Free
- f+PPP
- f+PPK, d+K
- f+PPK, P+Free
- PP b+PK
- PP b+P d+K
- qcf+K
- f+P+K
- d/f d/f+P


Back turned followups:

- PP, d+K 
- PP, d+P+Free


     EXAMPLES:

These all assume that the "Sidewinder" hits as a normal hit.

   - K+Free (LS), f+KP, b+P+K (launch), d/f+P, f+PPP  [90]

   - K+Free (LS), f+KP, b+P+K (launch), d/f+P, PPP, d+K  [82+15]


   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, PPK  [97]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, PP b+P d+K  [100]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, P f+PK  [101]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, P f+P d+K, d+K  [96+15]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, KP, d+K  [97+15]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, f+PPK, d+K  [99+15]
     
   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, PKK, d+K  [101+15]  


Since the u/f+K option is more reliable than the "Fire Bullet" (which I don't 
think is guaranteed after 3 "additional hits" in the combos above), I often 
depend on it more:


   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, u/f+K (launch), f+PPP  [87]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, u/f+K (launch), PPP, d+K.  [79+15]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, u/f+K (launch), f+PPK, d+K  [86+15]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, u/f+K (launch), P f+PK  [88]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, u/f+K (launch), PP b+PK  [93]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, u/f+K (launch), d/f+P, d/f d/f+P, d+K  [86+15]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, u/f+K (launch), PKK, d+K  [88+15]


   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, qcf+P (launch), PP b+PK  [91]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, qcf+P (launch), d/f+P, PP b+P d+K  [95]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, qcf+P (launch), d/f+P, PPK  [92]

   - K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP, qcf+P (launch), d/f+P, P f+PK  [96]


   - K+Free (LS), PP, d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), P f+PK  [88]

   - K+Free (LS), PP, d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), PP b+PK  [93]

   - K+Free (LS), PP, d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), PPP, d+K  [79+15]

   - K+Free (LS), PP, d/f+P, u/f+K (launch) PKK, d+K  [88+15]


   - K+Free (LS), PP b+PK (launch), d/f+P, PPK  [93]

   - K+Free (LS), PP b+PK (launch), d/f+P, f+PPP  [96]

   - K+Free (LS), PP b+PK (launch), d/f+P, PPP, d+K  [88+15]

   - K+Free (LS), PP b+PK (launch), d/f+P, KP, d+K  [93+15]


   - K+Free (LS), PP b+PK (launch), f+KP, PKK, d+K  [87+15]

   - K+Free (LS), PP b+PK (launch), f+KP, P f+PK  [104]

   - K+Free (LS), PP b+PK (launch), f+KP, f+PPK, d+K  [102+15]


Hi counter blow only combos:

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), PPK  [120]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), d/f+P, d/f d/f+P [123]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), f+PPP  [124]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), PP b+P d+K  [124]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), P f+PK  [126]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), PPP, d+K  [112+15]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), P f+P d+K, d+K [118+15]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), PP b+PK  [133]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), KP, d+K  [120+15]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), f+PPK, d+K  [122+15]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), PKK, d+K  [126+15]


- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+P+K (launch), d/f+P, f+PPP  [134]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+P+K (launch), d/f+P, PPP, d+K  [122+15]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+P+K (launch), d/f+P, P f+P d+K,d+K[128+15]


- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, d/f d/f+P [129]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, PPK  [141]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, PP b+P d+K [145]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+P+K (launch), f+KP, f+PPK, d+K [143+15]


- K+Free (LS), PP Free, P, b+PK (launch), d/f+P, f+PPP  [138]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, P, b+PK (launch), f+KP, PP b+P d+K  [149]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, P, b+PK (launch), f+KP, P f+PK  [151]

- K+Free (LS), PP Free, P, b+PK (launch), f+KP, f+PPK, d+K  [147+15]


   ==========================
9) ~+~+~+~+~+ BRAD +~+~+~+~+~
   ==========================

     Brad's LS combos are unique in that it doesn't really matter what "stance 
they're in".  All Brad has to do is "side-step" towards the opponent's back, and 
land the hit as a normal hit, and Brad will force the victim into the LS.

     The problem?  Actually landing the starter on a normal hit IN THE FIRST 
PLACE.  Since you usually perform a side-step to well, sidestep an opponent's 
attack, you usually land this - if you land it at all - as a counter blow, 
knocking them down.

     The other problem?  Finding good hits to do before a launcher, and some 
kind of decent followup.  So far, I don't think I've found a combo that was 
worth it (more than 90 damage).

     The REAL problem?  I suck with Brad.  I really haven't used him yet, but I 
included him here because I know that he has the LS ability.  I think I've 
pretty much done with the rest of the characters, and I can concentrate on Brad 
now, so hopefully there will be some noteworthy stuff in the next edition of 
this faq.


     STARTER:

- dd+P or uu+P (normal hit).  "Sokusen-Getsuga".


     LAUNCHER:

- u/b+K

For these, you may have to hit "Free" right after:

- d/f+K
- d/f+KP
- d/f+KPP

- d/f d/f+K (Brad recovers back-turned)


     JUGGLE FOLLOWUP:

- d+P
- PPP
- PP d/b+K
- PP d+K
- PK, d+P
- f+PP
- f+P b+P, d+P
- D/B+KKK


Back turned folloupws:

- PK 
- d+PP
- ff+PP
- d/b+PK, d+P
- D/B+PK
- K+Free
- PP b+P d+P
  

   EXAMPLES:

u/b+K (launch) combos:

     - dd+P (LS), u/b+K (launch) K. 69 damage.


d/f+K (launch) combos:

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+K (launch), d/f D/F+KK.  73 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+K (launch), PK, d+P.  77 damage (65+12).

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+K (launch), D/B+KKK.  78 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+K (launch), f+P b+P, d+P.  81 damage (69+12).


d/f+KP (launch) combos:

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KP (launch), Free, PPP.  79 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KP (launch), Free, PP d/b+K.  82 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KP (launch), Free, f+PP.  82 damage, without wall damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KP (launch), D/B+KKK.  87 damage.  Easy.


d/f+KPP (launch) combos:

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KPP (launch), d+P.  78 damage.  Lame.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KPP (launch), D+KK.  83 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KPP (launch), u/b+K.  84 damage.  Easy.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KPP (launch), D/B+PK.  86 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f+KPP (launch), d/b+P, K, d+P.  100 damage (88+12).  HARD!


d/f d/f+K (launch) combos:

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), K+Free.  69 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), PK.  69 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), d+PP. 76 damage. 

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), ff+PP.  79 damage, without wall damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), d/b+P, K, d+P.  83 damage (71+12).

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), PP b+P d+P, d+P.  91 damage (79+12).

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), P+K, f+PP.  83 damage.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), P+K, D/B+KKK.  88 damage. EASY & reliable.

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), P+K, f+P b+P, d+P  91 damage (79+12). HARD

     - dd+P (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), P+K, d/b+PK, d+P.  92 damage (80+12). HARD


    ==============================
10) ~+~+~+~+~+ CHRISTIE +~+~+~+~+~
    ==============================

     The key move is her "Yahuko-Sohi" from a closed stance.  The move can 
either be performed by itself, or through a 2-hit or 4-hit combo.
     This move resembles Ayane's LS-starter, although it is a bit inferior.  It 
has almost as much range (but not quite), and its recovery isn't as good 
(Christie is vulnerable to a low throw if it's blocked, unlike Ayane), but she 
shares the fact that the LS can occur on a normal or critical hit as well.  
What her's does have, that Ayane's doesn't, is the ability to come from an auto-
combo (similar to Zack's).  This may offset the fact that its execution time is 
similar to Ayane's (in that it's quick, but not instant).
 
     For some reason, the PP d+K K starter works on both normal hit and counter 
hit situations, increasing its effectiveness.  It will knock down if the leading 
jabs connect when the victim is ALREADY stunned however, so technically, it 
doesn't always work on a critical hit.  

     The d/f+K+Free (and d+K+Free, K) starter ALSO works for both normal and 
critical hit situations, making Christie very dangerous from a closed stance.

     What DOES happen if the starters land on a critical hit?  LESS ADDITIONAL 
HITS are allowed (just like Bayman's "Sidewinder").  Too many hits, and the 
victim will just fall down, before the launcher, wasting potential.  In the case 
where the "Yahuko-Sohi" lands in an auto-combo, Christie must immediately 
launch.  When using the starter singly, to be safe, don't use the d/b+PK to 
launch, as the first low-punch knocks down in these situations.
     On a hi counter blow however, you can add much more in terms of additional 
hits (just like Bayman!).

     Something weird about Christie.  Some "additional hits" cause the victim to 
turn around again (?), like doing a f+K or a f+P+K, right after the LS for 
example (using a jab before these moves prevents this however, which is why my 
first additional hit is always a jab).
     Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.  I think it has something to do 
with how Christie rotates off axis when she performs a "Yahuko-Sohi".  Needless 
to say, I've omitted these moves as "additional hits", even though they can be 
used to extend the back-turned stun, as they are very unreliable.
     Even more intriguing, is what happens if you were in the wrong stance when 
you performed the Yahuko-Sohi.  You would therefore force the victim into a 
"stomach hurts a lot" stun (the one where the victim clutches their stomach and 
then tip over, falling on their face).  From there, you can use the f+K to get 
the opponent's back!  What this means is, should you be in the "wrong" stance, 
and get the "other" stun, then a "f+K" will force them into being back-turned 
(although that knee can suffer a hold).
     I'd love to go deeper into this, but it really belongs in a Christie 
character guide, which unfortunately is low on my list of character guides right 
now (I'm actually surprised, that with so many Christie fans, that no one else 
has explored this, let alone her LS abilities).  If this faq should develop as 
planned, and expand to include other "back turned" stuns, then I'll get more 
into it.  But for now, here is the basic idea:

(open stance, guaranteed from second hit)

     - d/f+K+Free, f+K, b+P, Free, d+K (launch), b+K d+KPP.  84 damage.

     - d/f+K+Free, f+K, P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, f+PPP.  91 damage.

     - d/f+K+Free, f+K, P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, PPPP d+P.  93 damage.

...etc.  

Anyway, back to the topic of Limbo Stuns...


     STARTER:

- PP d+K K (closed stance) "Ren-Yakuho-Sohi".
- d+K+Free, K (closed stance) "Zenso-Yakuho-Sohi".
- d/f+K+Free (closed stance) "Yakuho-Sohi".


     ADDITIONAL HITS:

- P, f+P+K (LS)
- PP Free, PP Free
- PP Free, u/f~P
- P Free, b+P Free (Christie recovers back-turned)
- PP Free, PP Free, P (hi counter blow only)


     LAUNCHER:

- d/b+PK
- u+K
- u/f+K
- d/f d/f+P
- K+Free
- b+K+Free, P+K


Back-turned launchers:

- d+K    (Christie recovers front-facing)
- K+Free (Christie recovers front-facing)


     JUGGLE FOLLOWUP:

- PPPPP
- PPPP d+P
- PP D+KK
- f+PPP
- PKK d+K
- KK d+K
- f+K+Free
- b+KK
- b+P d+K
- b+K d+KP
- u/b+K

Back turned followups:

- P+K 
- d+PP


     EXAMPLES:

Normal or hi counter blow only (damage rating assumes normal hit):

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, d/b+PK (launch), b+KK  [75]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, d/b+PK (launch), PP D+KK  [78]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, d/b+PK (launch), PPPPP  [81]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, d/b+PK (launch), KK d+K  [82]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, d/b+PK (launch), PKK d+K  [87]


The following work in all hit states (but damage given assumes normal hit):

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), P Free, b+P Free, d+K (launch), b+KK  [71]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), P Free, b+P Free, d+K (launch), PP D+KK  [74]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), P Free, b+P Free, d+K (launch), PPPPP  [77]


   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, f+PPP  [89]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, PP D+KK  [90]


These also work in all hit states.  Poor victim is forced into the LS TWICE!

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), P, f+P+K (LS), b+K+Free (launch), P+K, u/b+K  [78]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), P, f+P+K (LS), b+K+Free (launch), P+K, f+PPP  [89]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), P, f+P+K (LS), b+K+Free (launch), P+K, PP D+KK  [90]


I know the damage rating on these next combos are pretty weak, but they are very 
stylish because Christie can land the "qcf+KK" and the "ff+K" IN A COMBO!  

Normal or counter blow (damage rating assumes normal hit):

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), P Free, b+P Free, d+K (launch), ff+K  [58] 

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), P Free, b+P Free, d+K (launch), qcf+KK  [69]

Hi counter blow variation:

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, b+P Free, d+K (launch), ff+K  [87]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, b+P Free, d+K (launch), qcf+KK  [102]

...not damaging, but very l33t looking!  It also demonstrates how much the game 
punishes ill-timed throws.  The only real difference is a single extra jab-hit, 
and yet the damage skyrockets if the first hit lands on a hi counter blow.


Normal or hi counter blow only (damage rating assumes normal hit):

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, b+P Free, d+K (launch), PPPPP  [82]


   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, b+P, K+Free (launch), f+PPP  [81]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, b+P, K+Free (launch), PPPP d+P  [83]


   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP, u/f~P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, f+PPP  [91]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP, u/f~P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, PP D+KK  [92]


Hi counter blow only:

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), b+KK  [113]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), PPPPP  [122]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, u/f+K (launch), PKK d+K  [131]


   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, K+Free (launch), f+PPP  [118]
   
   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, K+Free (launch), PP D+KK  [119]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, K+Free (launch), PPPP d+P  [121]


   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, u/b+K [122]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, f+PPP [138]

   - d/f+K+Free (LS), PP Free, PP Free, P, b+K+Free (launch), P+K, PP D+KK [139]


    ============================
11) ~+~+~+~+~+ HELENA +~+~+~+~+~
    ============================

     The move that gets the LS is the first hit of her "Kasetsu-Sho" from a 
closed stance, which requires critical hit status.  Since I call Bass's 
LS Combo Starter is a "Side Hook", Helena's move is described as a "Side Chop" 
(reverse knife-edge?).  Again, like Bass, it really is just the first hit of a 
2-parter, so hitting P again too soon would perform the full move, and knock 
down.  Because of this, I'd get into the habit of hitting Free right after the 
hit, although it isn't that necessary, since Helena recovers fast enough from 
the first punch - she recovers from the hit before the victim falls down from 
the LS - that only a small delay is needed to continue (unlike Jann Lee's LS, 
where hitting Free right after is a must).  But I still Free Cancel, just out of 
habit.

     She also has the third hit of her back-turned PPPP auto-combo ("Renkan-
Kasetsu-Sho"), which, like Zack, requires Helena to be back turned, in opposite 
stance, and critical hit status.  I'm not going to lie and claim that I get the 
LS to happen while back-turned *on purpose*, but I sometimes I like to perform 
the PPP when back-turned and hope for the best.  Sometimes I get the LS, 
sometimes I don't.  But remember, having it *hit* even from the wrong stance, is 
still a good thing.  (Of course, the opponent launching me from behind or 
performing a hold is a bad thing, but that goes without saying).
     It has very good execution, and quick recovery (provided you Free-cancel, 
since complete move allows for long delay between the two hits).  Together with 
it's deceptive range (well beyond side-kick range), make this a pretty good 
poking tool, in itself.   Very good move, (relatively) safe to toss out, since 
it's pretty hard to catch on reaction. 


     "Slick Surface" considerations:
Like Bass and Jann Lee, Helena requires the "Side Chop" to hit with critical hit 
status.  Fighting on ice, water, or snow, and hitting with the starter will 
still result in the LS, even if it lands as a normal hit.  It's one of Helena's 
best moves, and it is even more dangerous on a slick surface.


     STARTER:

- f+P Free (closed hit, critical hit)
- PPP Free (back-turned, opposite stance, critical hit)

     
     ADDITIONAL HITS:

- P
- u/f~P
- u/b+P
- d/f+P
    

     LAUNCHER:

- u+K (Helena recovers in Bokuho stance)
- u/b+K (Helena recovers back-turned)
- P+K
- d+KK
- ff+P
- u/f+K
- f+K Free

...too many to list


FOLLOWUPS:

- ff+PKP
- PPK
- b+KK      
- b+PPP
- f+KPP
- f+PP, d+K
- f+KP, d+K
- f+KK
- P+K P, d+K
- PPP
- ff+PKP


Bokuho stance follow-ups:

- PPK
- b+PKK
- b+PKP, d+K


Back turned follow-ups:

- f+KK
- PP b+PPP
- f+KP
- PPPP, d+K


EXAMPLES:

Assuming Counter blow:

   - f+P Free (LS), d/f+P, d+KK (launch), P+K P  [85]

   - f+P Free (LS), d/f+P, d+KK (launch), b+PPP  [88]

   - f+P Free (LS), d/f+P, d+KK (launch), ff+KPP  [90]

   - f+P Free (LS), d/f+P, d+KK (launch), f+PP, d+K  [80+12]
 
   - f+P Free (LS), d/f+P, d+KK (launch), D/F+PP, d+K  [82+12]

   - f+P Free (LS), d/f+P, d+KK (launch), f+KP, d+K  [83+12]


Using P+K as the launcher:

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), PPP  [80]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), f+KK  [80]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), b+KK  [80]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), u/f+PK  [81]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), PPK  [83]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), b+PPP  [87]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), ff+KPP  [89]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), f+PP, d+K  [79+12]          

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), ff+PKP  [91]
                                                                 
   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), f+KP, d+K  [82+12]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, P+K (launch), P+K P, d+K  [84+12]


"Bokuho Stance LS Combos":

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, u+K (launch), PPK  [81]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, u+K (launch), b+PKK  [86]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, u+K (launch), b+PKP, d+K  [88+12]


"Back-turned LS Combos":

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, u/b+K (launch), f+KK  [83]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, u/b+K (launch), PP b+PPP  [96]

   - f+P Free (LS), u/f~P, P, u/b+K (launch), f+KP, d+K  [85+12]


Hi counter blow only:

   - f+P Free (LS), P, d/f+P, P, P+K (launch}, ff+KPP  [114]

   - f+P Free (LS), P, d/f+P, P, P+K (launch), ff+PKP  [116]


   - f+P Free (LS), P, d/f+P, P, d+KK (launch), b+PPP  [118]

   - f+P Free (LS), P, d/f+P, P, d+KK (launch), ff+KPP  [121]

   - f+P Free (LS), P, d/f+P, P, d+KK (launch), f+PP, d+K  [109+12]

   - f+P Free (LS), P, d/f+P, P, d+KK (launch), D/F+PP, d+K  [111+12]

   - f+P Free (LS), P, d/f+P, P, d+KK (launch), f+KP, d+K  112+12]



    ==============================
12) ~+~+~+~+~+ JANN LEE +~+~+~+~+~
    ==============================

     To use his LS, you have to get used to the idea of "Free-cancels", 
otherwise following up is impossible.  Fortunately, he's easy to practice 
getting "into the habit" of hitting Free right after the "Shin Knee Kick" move 
("SKK").  Getting 100pts of damage with Jann Lee's LS combos should be easy, 
because of Jann Lee's wall damage ability. 
     Unfortunately, Jann Lee possesses possibly the weakest LS ability (Brad's 
doesn't even count, IMO).  It's both weak in range (within side-kick range), as 
well as exectution and recovery time, when compared to the others.

     "Slick Surface" considerations:
Like Bass, Jann Lee requires a critical hit to get the LS.  Likewise, fighting 
on a water or ice is a bonus for Jann Lee, since the SKK will get the LS even on 
a normal hit.  What that does mean though, again, is that on a normal hit, is 
that less damage will be inflicted (because you didn't get the damage bonuses of 
getting some sort of counter blow).  Overall, the trade-off is still worth it, 
since it just means that the LS has a greater chance of occurring, which means 
more guaranteed launchers for Jann Lee, which means more juggles, which means 
more pain for Jann Lee's opponent, especially if there are walls around.  


     STARTER:

- K+Free Free (closed stance, critical hit)


     ADDITIONAL HITS:

- f+K, Free
- d/f+P
- f+P
- u/f+P


- d/f+P, u/f+P  (hi counter blow only)


     LAUNCHER:

- u/b+K (more power, hits high)
- u/f+K (better range, hits mid, more reliable)


     JUGGLE FOLLOWUP:

- PPPP (of course!)
- PPP d+K (for heavyweights)
- PP b+PP (for lightweights)
- PP d+KK
- f+PK
- P d+PK
- PP f+P
- u/f+KK
- f+K b+K
- qcf+P
- P+K
- ff+P, d+K


     EXAMPLES:

     While the damage of these combos are 90+, that's 90+pts NOT INCLUDING wall 
damage, and we all know how easy it is to get wall damage with Jann Lee :) 
 

Assuming counter blow:

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), PP d+KK  [93]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), u+P Free, f+PK  [95]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), PP b+PP  [99]


   - K+Free Free (LS), u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP b+PP  [98]


   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), PP f+P, u/f+KK  [99]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), PP f+P, PPP d+K  [103]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+K (launch), PP f+P, PP D+KK  [104]


   - K+Free Free (LS), u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, PP D+KK  [103]

   - K+Free Free (LS), u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, f+K b+K  [104]

   - K+Free Free (LS), u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, P d+PK  [104]


Assuming counter blow (best when used in close):

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, P+K  [92]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, u/f+KK  [100] 

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, f+PK  [100]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, P D+PK  [103]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, f+KK  [103]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, PPP d+K  [104]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, PP D+KK  [105]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, f+K b+K  [106]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, P f+PK  [106]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, P d+PK  [106]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, PP b+PP  [119]


Hi counter blow only:

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, P+K  [121]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, u/f+KK  [130]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, PP D+KK  [136]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, f+K b+K  [137]

   - K+Free Free (LS), d/f+P, u/f+P, u/b+K (launch), PP f+P, P d+PK  [137]


    ==========================
13) ~+~+~+~+~+ ZACK +~+~+~+~+~
    ==========================


     STARTER:

Zack has 6(!) different ways to get the LS:


- PPPK (open stance, normal or hi counter blow) "Mobius Rush"
- d+KPPK (closed stance, normal or hi counter blow) "Mobius Rush alternate"

- PP B+K (open stance, critical hit) "Fake Spinning Heel"
- d+KP B+K (closed stance, critical hit) "Fake Spinning Heel Kick alternate"

- qcf+PK (open stance, normal hit or hi counter blow) "Spinning Heel Kick" (SHK)

- b+K (opposite stance, back-turned, critical hit)


     Zack has 6 different ways to perform the "spinning heel kick" ("SHK"), 
which gets you the LS in a variety of different situations - including 
ALL front-facing situations.

He actually has the PPKKKKK move (closed stance, normal or hi counter blow) that 
also gets the LS, but it really isn't a good combo starter (obviously), and Zack 
can't really follow-up anyway.  So I didn't include it (although if your 
opponent is poor enough to actually eat all the hits, a tag partner could 
probably follow up).

     Now, while Zack may have more ways to get the LS than the other characters 
(even with his back-turned!), the front-facing starters come from combos - and 
therefore are NOT guaranteed on the first hit like the others, since the LS 
doesn't come right away.  And, I don't have to tell you that the back-turned one 
doesn't come that often - while this is a valuable weapon, this in no way makes 
Zack as dangerous as Ayane when his back is turned.  He's not even as good as 
Helena or any of the ninjas with his back-turned.

     On the plus side, some of the front-facing starters are fairly quick (the 
qcf+PK is an extremely quick 2-hitter), so even if they're not "guaranteed after 
the first hit", they are still very much workable.  They also give many options 
in terms of incorporating delays into Zack's strike patterns.

     As for what I mean by "opposite stance, back-turned"?  Zack must have HIS 
back to the opponent for one thing.  Opposite stance means that Zack's "front 
foot" (say, his left) is different than that of his opponent's (which would be 
the right foot).  I honestly don't do this on purpose, it just gives a valid 
option when Zack's back is turned, in addition to d/b+K, P+K, dashing/crouch-
dashing away, etc.  It's not like Zack has many back-turned options, anyway.

     "Slick Surface" considerations:
Moves affected by ice and water include most the moves that hit low, which means 
his "Mobius Rush alternate" seems to always knock down.  The reason being, is 
that on a slick surface, low hits to the legs give the victim a lower "stun 
damage threshold" - meaning the victim needs less stun damage before being 
knocked down.  You notice that IF the first d+K misses but the third and fourth 
hit connect, that the victim will still get the LS.  In fact, you only need the 
third and fourth hit to connect anyway - that is the part that contains the SHK.  
What is actually happening is, on a critical hit (which includes "slick 
surfaces" normal hits, as well as "stunned" victims), having the low hit connect 
gives a low stun damage threshold, which the next 3 hits exceed, knocking down.
     In addition, similar to Jann Lee, Helena, and Bass, Zack's moves that 
normally require a critical hit (the "Fake Spinning Heel" moves) to force the 
victim into the LS, are easier to use on slick surfaces, for they allow the LS 
to occur on normal hits as well.  

     Mobius Rush & Fake Spinning Heel "alternates":
Because Zack has the ability to substitute a "leading jab" (any combo starting 
with a simple P) with a "Leading Low Kick" "d+K" instead, Zack has 2 versions of 
these moves.  Other than the fact that one starts with a low-kick, and the other 
with a high-punch (to mix up your leading hits), the "d+K" works from a closed 
stance, while the "P" version works from an open stance.
     
     Spinning Heel Kick:
Other than the real SHK, the "fake" versions are quite nice - the delay in the 
final kick is often enough to elicit a counter-hit, for both its well-timed 
delay and its decent priority.  
     The delay is even enough to bypass mid-holds - an opponent performing the 
mid-hold too early after the "double jab" will STILL get hit - requiring the 
opponent to delay his hold attempt.  Just don't use these moves to "extend" 
stuns (i.e. the opponent is already in a critical hit stun).  That way, you can 
be sure that the double-jab is guaranteed.
     Using this move properly will FORCE you opponent to start performing 
delayed mid-holds (because getting into an LS is NOT nice).  So using the 
universal tactic of "jab jab throw") to get high-counter throws becomes TOO EASY 
with Zack, once he's been sucessful with the Fake SHK.  
     I know this type of info belongs more in a Zack character guide 
(forthcoming BTW!), but the usefulness of these moves become more obvious when 
you consider overall play, instead of just considering these moves in isolation.  
While Zack CANNOT get the LS from a single hit, the variety of situations that 
Zack CAN get the LS (pretty much EVERY SITUATION), MORE THAN MAKE UP for this.  
All it takes is a little CONDITIONING on your part of your opponent.

     The important thing to remember though, is that Zack can get the LS FROM 
BOTH STANCES and from BOTH HIT SITUATIONS (normal or critical hit).  That's 
pretty much ALL situations, save for those with Zack's back turned (and he even 
CAN with his back-turned if the conditions are right!).

     Considering that some characters DON'T EVEN HAVE "LS ability" AT ALL, Zack 
can consider himself is blessed!


     LAUNCHER:

- d/f d/f+K (his best all-round launcher, you may want to get used to hitting 
             "Free" right after, if the next hit is a kick, and you want to 
             avoid performing the full bicycle kick move.)

- ff+K (much better damage, only a little less height)


     JUGGLE FOLLOWUP:

- d/f d/f+KK 
- u/b+KK 
- PPPK
- PP D+KKKKK
- PP f+KK
- PP u+K, d+K
- f+P+K
- PKK, Free, d+K
- d/f d/f+PP
- qcf+PK
- f+K, f+PP, d+K


     EXAMPLES:

(Closed stance, normal or hi counter blow.  Damage rating assumes normal):

   - d+KPPK (LS), ff+K (launch), b+PP, d+K  [82+10]

   - d+KPPK (LS), ff+K (launch), PPPK  [93]

   - d+KPPK (LS), ff+K (launch), u/b+KK  [93]

   - d+KPPK (LS), ff+K (launch), f+K, f+PP, d+K  [92+10]

   - d+KPPK (LS), ff+K (launch), u/f+K, f+KK, d+K  [93+10]


(Open stance, normal or hi counter blow.  Damage rating assumes normal):

   - qcf+PK (LS) ff+K (launch), PP D+KKKKK  [89]

   - qcf+PK (LS) ff+K (launch), PP u+K, d+K  [84+10]


   - qcf+PK (LS), d/f d/f+K (launch), PP f+KK  [89]


(open stance, critical hit.  Damage rating assumes counter blow): 

   - PP B+K (LS), ff+K (launch), PKK, Free, d+K  [87+10]


    ==========================================
14) ~+~+~+~+~+ GAME ENGINE OVERVIEW +~+~+~+~+~
    ==========================================

     "STRIKE" GAME ENGINE RULES:

- STRIKES BEAT THROWS.  Doing so is a "hi counter blow" and rewards you by
  adjusting damage of blow by 150% (40pts becomes 60pts of damage).  Each 
  subsequent ground hit is adjusted by 60%, each juggle hit is adjusted by 75%

- Striking a STRIKING opponent in their strike animation is a "counter blow"
  and rewards you by adjusting damage of blow by 125% (40pts becomes 50pts of 
  damage).  Each subsequent ground hit is adjusted by 50%, each juggle hit   
  is adjusted by 62%

- Forcing an opponent into a "critical hit" state rewards you by forcing 
  the victim into a stun - a state where they can only perform holds.  Each 
  subsequent ground and juggle hits are adjusted by 50%.  This adjustment comes 
  from forcing the victim into a critical hit state through a NORMAL hit(refer 
  to the preceding rules regarding counter blow adjustments).  These include: 
  striking victim on a "slick" surface, striking a crouching opponent with a 
  mid-level hit, or through a move that gives a critical hit as part of its 
  property.  The *initial* hit may be adjusted by 125%, depending on the 
  circumstances.  These include: hitting a back-turned opponent, and striking a 
  crouching opponent with a mid-level hit.

- Striking a CROUCHING opponent with a mid-level-blow is a "critical hit" and is
  modified by 125% damage bonus.  Additionally, these blows usually have
  different hit properties on crouching opponents (causing different stuns,
  launches, knocking down, etc.)

- Striking a JUMPING opponent, before they reach the apex of the jump, is a "hi
  counter blow" (150% damage bonus) and adjusts subsequent juggle hits by 75% 
  (40pts becomes 30pts damage) or ground hits by 60% damage.

- "Close hit" bonus is given to certain moves, and are rewarded by a 150% damage 
  bonus.  A "close hit" on any type of counter blow (an attacking opponent, a 
  hit from behind, etc.), however, is modified by a whopping 160% bonus! The 
  bonus will not be rewarded if the opponent is already in a "critical hit" 
  state when hit.  

- Critical Hit Stun "threshold."  A "critically stunned" victim can only take a  
  limited amount of "stun damage" before a hit (any hit) will knock down.  I 
  don't know exactly what the formula is that calculates this threshold.  I will   
  say that "hi counter blow" stun threshold is greater than a "counter blow"   
  stun threshold (i.e., they can take more hits before being knockdown when if 
  they got hit with a hi counter blow).  Why won't Tecmo publish any game engine 
  data?  The weird thing?  A "normal blow" stun threshold is more than a    
  counter blow (!?!).  So the "threshold" hierarchy flows like this: 

     - hi counter blow > normal blow > counter blow. (from largest to smallest).

- Hi-level blows can be avoided by a standing guard or crouch
- Mid-level blows can be avoided by a standing guard
- Low-level blows can be avoided by crouching guard or jumped-over

- Back-turned characters CANNOT Guard or Hold.

- All blows from behind are counter blows.

- Blows in "automatic combos" can be delayed to a certain degree.

- Wall damage varies (5-20pts?) depending on distance, type of wall, etc.

- HOLDS BEAT STRIKES.  They must be performed at the correct height 
  (hi,mid, or low) and timing.


     "THROW" GAME ENGINE RULES:

- THROWS BEAT HOLDS.  Doing so is a "hi counter throw" and rewards you by 
  adjusting damage of throw by 150% (40pts becomes 60pts of damage)

- Throwing a THROWING opponent is a "counter throw" and rewards you by
  adjusting damage of throw by 125% (40pts becomes 50pts of damage)

- An opponent in a "critical hit" stun CANNOT be thrown.

- Standing throws can only be performed on standing opponents.  
- Crouching throws can only be performed on crouching opponents.  
- Ground throws can only be performed on grounded opponents.
- Air throws can only be performed on airborne (juggled) opponents.

- Throws cannot be avoided by guarding.

- Only basic throws (P+Free) can be escaped, by inputting a well-timed P+Free.
- Command throws (direction+P+Free) CANNOT be escaped.
- "Combo throws" can be escaped after the initial throw is performed.

- Wall damage varies (5-20pts?) depending on distance, type of wall, etc.

- STRIKES BEAT THROWS.
  As always, the best time to attempt to throw is when the opponent is
  performing a hold.  That's when you are SUPPOSED to throw (you're rewarded
  handsomely if you do), and that's how the game was designed.  If you find the
  adjustment too hard to make, stop bitching and don't play this game.  You just
  don't get it.  YOU CAN'T THROW WHEN OPPONENT IS STRIKING!  That's the rule,
  if you don't wanna play by the rules, then you don't wanna play.  End Rant.

- There are a "special throws" that seem to defy the "Strikes beat Throws" rule
  to some extent.  These throws usually have a markedly different throw
  animation than the normal throw.

- The one caveat about "special throws" is that normal throws have the better
  priority against them i.e. normal throws are more likely to get the counter-
  throw should one person perform a normal throw and the other perform a
  special throw.  This is probably due to the lengthier start animation "special
  throws" have, and are probably determined by such (I sure wish I had the
  frame data).  This is not so bad for the "special throws" however, as they
  usually have the better reach: if player-one's performs a normal throw and the
  "reaching hand" of his fighter doesn't actually touch player-two who is
  performing a "special throw", than player two will win, of course (this is
  assuming everything was done at the proper throw-height).

 
     "HOLD" GAME ENGINE RULES:

- HOLDS BEAT STRIKES.  And only strikes.

- Performing a hold early (so that it catches the blow late) gets normal damage.

- Performing a hold "close" to when the strike connects is a "counter hold" and
  rewards you by adjusting damage of hold by 125% (40pts becomes 50pts damage).

- Performing a hold the instant the strike connects is a "hi counter hold" and 
  rewards you by adjusting damage of hold by 150% (40pts becomes 60pts damage).

- Most "critical hit" stuns can be interrupted by performing a hold.

- In addition to correct timing, holds must be performed at the correct height:
- High-level holds reverse high-level blows
- Mid-level holds reverse mid-level blows
- Low-level holds reverse low-level blows

- Back-turned characters cannot Guard or Hold.

- Wall damage varies (5-20pts?) depending on distance, type of wall, etc.

- THROWS BEAT HOLDS.
  The game severely punishes ill-timed holds.  Throwing an opponent performing
  a hold is an automatic "hi counter throw" - which are one average THE MOST  
  DAMAGING SINGLE MOVES IN THE GAME.  There should no complaints that "holds are 
  cheap" - if you're getting counter-holds against you all the time it means you 
  are not throwing enough, and you are most likely a button-masher and/or just 
  suck.  Stop being so predictable and start punishing hold-crazy opponents.  
  Facing opponents who counter-hold too much IS A GOOD THING - just throw man, 
  throw.  End rant.


    ============================================
15) ~+~+~+~+~+~ REVISION HISTORY AND ~+~+~+~+~+~
    ~+~+~+~+~+ PLANNED FUTURE UPDATES +~+~+~+~+~
    ============================================

 
REVISION HISTORY:


Version 1.00 - March 2002

     First edition.  No revisions.  Submitted to Gamefaqs, but was never posted       
     on-line.  V1.1 was submitted within a day or two.


Version 1.10 - March 2002

   - Added quite a few more combos.
   - Added quite a few corrections as well.  I even suspect that I uploaded  
     the wrong Zip file for version 1.0.

   - Added more elaboration of the conditions needed to get these to work.  
     Especially for Zack, added some insight into situations (and obtaining    
     those situations) which makes these moves easier to pull off in "real" 
     play.


Version 1.20 - March 2002

   - Originally, I had planned to JUST add some "missing" combos for Bayman 
     that should have been in v1.1, and then submit it as v1.12...

     ...and then I spent a few hours with Brad, and added many more combos for 
     him. 

     ...ditto with Christie.  Added TONNES of combos for them.

     So instead, I'm simply calling this v1.2!

   - Also added notes on the effects of "slick surfaces" for those characters     
     who are directly affected by them.


Version 1.30 - March 2002

   - So anyway, I was just getting my daily fix of DOA3, when the Helena CPU
     put me in the LS.     
       
"Damn!" I said.  "...I hate it when she does that.  Good thing (or bad thing!) 
that the CPU doesn't know any decent follow-ups.  Oh well".

   - A few rounds later, it finally hit me.  

"Hey waitaminute... is Helena in my FAQ?"  

   - [boots up laptop]  

"...DOH!"

   - Hence, the like, 5th revision of this FAQ in as many days.


Version 1.40 - April 2002

   - The Faceless Master (old DOAonline vet), who hangs out at fighters.net
     came to visit the GameFaq DOA3 forums (which I wish he did more often!).
     He reported that you can perform a hold during *all* back-turned stuns 
     (actually, "all but one", which he didn't specify, but I assume he meant 
     the Limbo Stun).  Which was an eye-opener, because a back-turned fighter 
     CANNOT guard or hold.  After some debate, the very next time I could test 
     with a human (about a week later), we tried to hold during *each* back-
     turned stun, and confirmed TFM's claim that you can indeed perform a hold 
     on a particular stun ("falling forward on knees" stun).  As it turns out, 
     the "falling forward on knees" stun is not a back-turned stun at all!  
     The victim recovers "front facing" should the animation be allowed to
     completion.  What a revelation!  Needless to say, I had to take all the 
     "additional hits" that caused this particular stun out of the FAQ.  
     Kudos for TFM for opening my eyes!

   - So for the most part, took out a single hit for the combos.  The ones 
     that did not cause that stun were untouched.  Constructed quite a few new 
     ones combos as well.  "Fixed" a few instances where an additional hit had 
     such recovery that allowed a victim to turn around, and THEN hold.  But 
     left some in, if I felt that they required strict timing on a specific 
     action to "escape."  This makes those combos not guaranteed, but still good 
     enough to include, IMO.  Based on difficulty of escape, if the attacker 
     wins out, most of the time, I still left them in, even if they're 
     technically escapable.

   - Revised some of the game engine rules.  Specifically, stun "thresholds", as 
     well as changes to the "counter blow" and "critical" hit damage revisions.

   - Added more information on "counter" blow damage adjustments, in the strike 
     game engine "rules."

   - "Hi counter blow" combos added.  Throwers beware!


PLANNED FUTURE UPDATES:

   - Just add more combos! 

   - More general strategy on landing the hits (especially on normal hits) in
     the first place.  Not all characters have LS-hits, and not all LS-hits were
     created equal.  Some are more useful than others (Ayane's, Zacks).  Some 
     are pretty worthless IMO (Brad's).

- Turning this FAQ into a more "general" combo FAQ.  First major additions 
  will be "back-turned" combos (concentrating on throws and holds that give 
  you the opponent's back), and then on to the basic combos, and then onto 
  tag.


    ======================================
16) ~+~+~+~+~+ Acknowledgements +~+~+~+~+~
    ======================================

Thanks:
- Microsoft for XBoX.  Almost makes up for crappy Windows(tm).  Almost.
- Tecmo and Team Ninja for the DOA series
- GameFAQS and Jeff "CJayC" Veasey for feeding addictions worldwide
- Chris Macdonald aka "Kao Megura", for his great move notation conventions
- Wind-X for creating DOAOnline.  Though I was only there for about a month 
  before it closed down (was it something I said?) it was a great site.  I'm
  hoping he finds the time and the will to do it all again. [crosses fingers]
- The "homeless" DOAOnline vets who are still enthusiastic about this game.
- Kudos to "The Faceless Master" (fighters.net) for pointing out that you can 
  perform a hold during the "falling forward on knees" stun.  As it turns out, 
  that stun ISN'T a "back-turned" stun at all!  (gee...sure looks like it).  
  This prompted the removal of all "additional hits" in the combo FAQ that 
  caused this stun, in revision 1.40.  Thanks TFM!
- Myself for coming up with the term "LS".  I didn't invent it or anything, and 
  I know people have been doing this (I'm sure) since DOA2.  But while naming 
  that particular hit animation "Limbo Stun" IS pretty lame ("Limbo?" WTF is 
  THAT?  Oh that?  HAHAHA!") it IS MY lame name.  I claim to be the person 
  who first coined the term.  In an attempt to make it sound less stupid, I 
  think I'll start calling it "LS" instead.  Besides, it's still better than 
  calling it "bend over backwards until falling down stun", isn't it?  Just 
  kidding.  Call it what you want, it doesn't matter.  But doesn't it look like 
  they're doing the limbo for a second?  Don't you think it's hella funny? :)


No thanks:
- The idiots who designed the XBoX controller.  The button layout and the
  direction pad sucks.  And no, its not the size.  It's the layout.
- The people who make the Tecmo DOA forums the stinking cesspool it is.
- IGN and its "Insider" crap.  I used to like the forums, but it's not like you
  guys are offering anything that I can't get elsewhere FOR FREE. Yes, I may 
  just be cheap, but if other sites can do the same things you guys do for free,
  why can't you? Stuff like "Insider" destroys the potential for the internet to
  allow people to communicate on a level not possible with previous media. Stop
  the Commercialization of the Internet!  2-way communication that has the
  potential to transcend space, borders, race, gender, language, and class!
  End rant.    
- The people who prevent this game from getting the proper respect it
  deserves, because of their fascination with CG girls with virtual boobs.
- The people who disrespect this game because its simply not game they
  love.  No ones forcing you to play this game.  Ignore it and shut up.
- The people who are insecure enough to feel "threatened" by a videogame,
  and so have to show up at forums and flame and troll.  If "your" game is
  so good, why are you wasting all your time in forums of other games just to
  piss the people who like those games off?  Shouldn't you be playing your so-
  called "awesome" game?  Get a life.
- The people who steal info from this document and pass it off like their
  own.  That's just lame man, lame.  But we both know the truth, don't we?
  Loser.


Contact Info:
Email: ardemesa@hotmail.com
Forums: Can be found lurking in the gamefaq, and Tecmo forums as "Raigaa"

If you found anything in this guide to be helpful, write me.  If you disagree 
with anything in this guide, write me.  It's all good.  Just be sure to add 
"DOA" somewhere in the subject heading - with the amount of junkmail hotmail 
sends, my automatic reaction to seeing an e-mail from someone I don't know is to 
delete AND block it.

Any suggestions, tips, constructive criticisms, and compliments, are welcome.  
Any e-mails I don't like (hate-mail, junk-mail, etc.) I just block.  Any 
flames found in forums I simply ignore.  So go ahead.  Waste your time.  I'll 
not waste mine by responding.  Loser.

Have a nice day!


Copyright 2002 A.R.deMesa