Is talking about stuff like CE for PC games(Offline) against rules?

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User Info: FFT-Fan

FFT-Fan
3 weeks ago#1
I am referring to examples like using Cheat Engine to bypass micro-transaction schemes in single player games, cases like Shadow of War. I hate micro-transactions and gambling mechanics like loot boxes for non cosmetic rewards. I especially hate when the 2 are combined(I don't know all the details I just heard about MT's for better Orcs/etc and decided I'm out-no deal). I don't personally care about SoW itself but if this stuff becomes commonplace in all AAA games including strictly offline single-player ones it will be a big concern. I miss the days of buying a game and getting to play the game, and I hate gambling for its addictive & exploitative nature. I know people IRL who struggle with gambling addiction which has caused issues for them so I find it very reprehensible.

I would want to use CE not to obtain DLC content illegitimately but to bypass built in limitations that are designed to push players towards spending money to bypass them. Like if I buy a single player open world RPG like a TES/Fallout clone for PC and they go full mobile dev mode by adding an Energy mechanic where after it runs out I have to pay $5 for an energy boost or wait few days real time for it to replenish in order to continue playing, I would want to bypass the energy mechanic as I obviously want to play my single player game that I paid for on my terms whenever I want. I shouldn't have to deal with arbitrary limitations on when I want to play a game I paid $60 for it would be infuriating to see a "You're Tired" popup asking me to provide credit card info & $5 payment or wait 48 hours real time because I "played for too long". Or obtaining Legendary Orcs that presumably already exist in the base game(AFAIK enemy strongholds can have Legendary Orcs?) but they want me to pay for a chance to obtain one and this is the only way to obtain one so basically they want me to gamble real money if I want a Legendary Orc. Or forced grinding for super special points to try to frustrate me into dropping cash on micro-transactions buying points.

Would it be a rules violation to discuss something like an Energy Meter hack or a "points for buying Loot Crates" hack for single player/offline games? I understand that for online multiplayer it's a clear no-go since online multiplayer is a persistent service provided by the developer and all users agree to terms of use pertaining to that game's online service. I understand this since it affects the experiences of other players using the online service. And for free 2 play games I understand that these are in lieu of an upfront purchase price.

But I do not understand for $60 strictly single player and offline games as so far I've never had to agree to a Terms of Service or End User License Agreement in order to be allowed to play in an offline single player game. What we do in an offline game doesn't affect the other players. In the past I just ignored these games completely, I don't buy them when they feature unfair micro-transactions and just criticize their poor practices if it comes up but now I am getting concerned since it's becoming more and more commonplace that I have to wonder if by next year virtually all games will have them.

I am unsure because discussion of hacking is stated to be against the rules but as far as I know it is okay to talk about GameShark, ActionReplay or GameGenie(there are many FAQs featuring these codes for older games like PS1/SNES/N64/etc). Or are we not supposed to discuss things Gameshark codes either?
GTX 1080|i7-7700|DDR4 3200mhz|500GB 850 EVO

User Info: FFT-Fan

FFT-Fan
3 weeks ago#2
I am a big fan of games like The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Witcher so my nightmare would be exploitative microtransaction schemes being found everywhere in all future open world single player games like TES/Fallout. Cosmetic things I can ignore but not P2W/Freemium style stuff getting added to the next big singleplayer RPG.

The worst would be things like:
-An Energy Meter that acts as a timer, have to wait real time to resume playing or else pay real money
-Artificial grinding like I have to unreasonably grind for points thereby encouraging me to spend real money on a "Premium Currency"
-Locking/gating the game with grinding/"Premium Currency"
-Combining any of the above with gambling schemes like loot boxes/Summoning in FFBE/Booster Packs in sports game Ultimate Team. Case in point: Shadow of War.

If someday stuff like this became pretty much universally present in current big single player games I would begin to use stuff like Cheat Engine(I am a PC gamer) to bypass Energy meters. Would it be ToU violation to discuss these on the board of a $60 game that uses these micro-transactions.

Let's say Elder Scrolls VI did all this by including an Energy Meter, locking stuff in game behind "Premium Currency" like a whole bunch of content in the game Day 1 gets locked behind it and we have to spend this currency too for Premium Training to raise our skills beyond different thresholds. Would discussion of using Cheat Engine or the normal TES modding to get around this stuff that (basically treats the game as if it's a Free2Play game) be allowed. Not DLC stuff but like making you pay if you want to max out a skill or get the perks you want or pay to even continue playing the game beyond x amount of hours because "Energy Meter"

Another Example: a couple of times in a discussion I would think of referring to in game knowledge obtained through using cheat engine.

Like in a discussion about star wars battlefront 2 being pay to win, someone brought up they don't mind hard games otherwise they'd miss out on games like Souls. I wanted to say that souls has fair difficulty for both PVE & PVP(at least if you're not still a new player) if it were like SWBF2 there'd be buyable weapons beyond +10, which do in fact exist in the game code, there are distinct weapon IDs for every weapon/possible infusion and there's 2 digits for specifying upgrade level, anything up to +99 can be done and they do scale past +10 like a +20 can have 1000 damage on status screen. Only way to obtain is through cheats and going online rightfully would lead to a ban of the player using +20 weapons.

Would alluding to this knowledge be against the rules? I wanted to bring it up to compare SWBF2 Star Cards to these cheat weapons as I feel both have potential high difficulty only difference is Souls has real difficulty and SWBF2 has what I'd call fake difficulty or artificial difficulty, Star Cards especially the Epic/Legendary ones basically to me are like cheats for online or at least headed towards that direction as people can basically spend extra cash and/or get luckier to get Star Cards. Can people on here say "I believe that knowledge implies the use of Cheat Engine therefore I will report him for hacking". I do understand the counter-position as I wonder if I should report a poster if they appear to know things in an FPS that imply they are very familiar with FPS cheating stuff like aim bots, etc. One guy admitted to actually coding these things IIRC for Counter Strike Source.

Whereas in Souls I'm pretty much never going to get invaded by a guy with 1-shot Estoc(if they do they will be flagged and guaranteed to get banned) and bosses do have big stats but they are fairly designed to be challenging but fair. I consider myself a very ordinary player in terms of ability and have beaten Dark Souls 3 offline solo on Xbox before buying it again for PC.
GTX 1080|i7-7700|DDR4 3200mhz|500GB 850 EVO

User Info: FFT-Fan

FFT-Fan
2 weeks ago#3
Can I request this topic be deleted if it is something that cannot be answered? If it cannot be answered I will just assume I should not post about these things.

I would appreciate it if someone could PM me an answer to this question if it's possible but I understand if it cannot be answered.
GTX 1080|i7-7700|DDR4 3200mhz|500GB 850 EVO
(edited 2 weeks ago)

User Info: Knighthawk X

Knighthawk X
2 weeks ago#4
To answer your original question: yes.
The Hero's triumph on Cataclysm's Eve wins three symbols of virtue. The Master Sword he will then retrieve, keeping the Knight's line true.
(edited 2 weeks ago)

User Info: FFT-Fan

FFT-Fan
2 weeks ago#5
So it'd be ok to talk about if say my nightmare happened we can discuss using cheat engine to bypass it?

Like lets say there's a new game that's like a classic RPG/JRPG totally single player totally offline and instead of getting exp/drops/etc fron killing monsters they give you a loot box, harder monsters gives higher tier lootbox and theres many tiers. All exp/class progression/money/item drops go through this loot box system. So they make you grind for stuff but not only that you will get nothing at all from monster kills some of the time due to bad luck, you might get a Rock/other worthless object only and it's possible to get 0 exp/money so bad luck can draw out the grind. And they sell loot boxes as a microtransaction scheme.

Compounding this is a Stamina gauge, it has 1000 points normally and every hour ingame except while in a shop depletes 200 points. They take 48 hours to recharge 1000 points or $3 to recharge instantly but you lose some points from taking damage and getting Poisoned causes double depletion. They sell Stamina pool increases through Premium Rainbow lootboxes (microtransactions only boxes). So at higher levels heavy hitter will causes 1k stamina
GTX 1080|i7-7700|DDR4 3200mhz|500GB 850 EVO

User Info: Lady_Ninane

Lady_Ninane
2 weeks ago#6
If you're using cheat engines to gain online services that are charged for to cheat in these services for free then you will be moderated if:

* you ask how to do so
* you provide links on how to do so
* you show and brag about how you get these things for free
* etc etc etc, this is not an exhaustive list

The reason for this is most games like this prohibit these things in their Terms of Use or EULA or both. We remove these posts that violate these guidelines under our Illegal Activities guideline.

Of course, this doesn't apply to absolutely fictional scenarios. But if there is enough reason to suspect you're using fictional scenarios to skirt these rules you will be moderated if marked.
(edited 2 weeks ago)

User Info: Knighthawk X

Knighthawk X
2 weeks ago#7
FFT-Fan posted...
So it'd be ok to talk about if say my nightmare happened we can discuss using cheat engine to bypass it?


You asked if it would be against the rules. My answer was 'yes'. Regardless of whether a microtransaction/loot box system is implemented within a single player or multiplayer environment, despite whatever your intentions are for the discussion, these systems are still monetized content, and using any sort of means to circumvent this system is indeed a violation of any company's EULA. Again, this doesn't just apply to multiplayer games; it applies to single-player games or single-player modes (for example, Assassin's Creed: Origins) as well. Therefore, we cannot allow discussion on this subject.

In line with what Lady Ninane said, fictional scenarios are exempt from this, but using one to skirt the rules is not.
The Hero's triumph on Cataclysm's Eve wins three symbols of virtue. The Master Sword he will then retrieve, keeping the Knight's line true.
(edited 2 weeks ago)

User Info: FFT-Fan

FFT-Fan
2 weeks ago#8
Thank you for the clear answers. I will not bring up these things in discussions.

At least there is now some pushback against Battlefront 2 so at least that means maybe it won't get widely adopted by everybody and lead to single player games tying progression to lootboxes. I was concerned to see users defending the micro-transactions/Elite Trooper Edition in Battlefront 2 so it made me thing maybe this kind of stuff will get accepted by the players and then become commonplace in full price AAA games. I have family members and friends I know who have had problems with gambling addiction in the past including game examples like NBA Ultimate Team, CS GO skin crates and skin betting so this stuff hits a nerve.

Lady_Ninane posted...
If you're using cheat engines to gain online services that are charged for to cheat in these services for free then you will be moderated if:

* you ask how to do so
* you provide links on how to do so
* you show and brag about how you get these things for free
* etc etc etc, this is not an exhaustive list

The reason for this is most games like this prohibit these things in their Terms of Use or EULA or both. We remove these posts that violate these guidelines under our Illegal Activities guideline.

Of course, this doesn't apply to absolutely fictional scenarios. But if there is enough reason to suspect you're using fictional scenarios to skirt these rules you will be moderated if marked.

Understood. I will not do those things. The knowledge is helpful because even though today the scenarios are fictional if some day they are real I know not to make these mistakes in the future.

Knighthawk X posted...
You asked if it would be against the rules. My answer was 'yes'.

My mistake.

Knighthawk X posted...
(for example, Assassin's Creed: Origins)

Actually I have found Assassin's Creed has found a pretty good balance with this stuff an actually reasonable implementation. Notably the micro-transactions themselves do not include any randomization/gambling elements. I have not yet played Origins but the game progression pace felt pretty good like not drawn out (as someone who never spends on micro-transactions) when I played Black Flag, Unity & Syndicate. Comments I read suggest Origins is totally fine too, I'll buy it when time allows.

The cases where I would have wanted to discuss would be if full priced single player RPGs adopted a Free-2-Play style heavy micro-transaction or even a gacha model where we're expected to continually spend for stuff like energy and there's heavy gambling elements. I would say it would be if like FF Brave Exvius' model being added to the next singleplayer mainline Final Fantasy. Like tying story progression, character progression behind randomized micro-transactions that are arguably gambling system and asking players to pay real money to keep playing beyond x hours.
GTX 1080|i7-7700|DDR4 3200mhz|500GB 850 EVO
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