Changes to the Moderation System: Part 2

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User Info: SBAllen

SBAllen
4 weeks ago#1
First of all, I don't plan to duplicate the information listed at the beginning of the first topic. If you haven't read it yet, you can find it here:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/11-team-gamefaqs/75743630

This topic is to allow more discussion about the proposed changes. Before opening the floor for more comments, I'll try to address some of the more common themes from the previous topic:

- Spoiler expiration dates: The majority of users seem to dislike this idea, so we'll probably scrap it.

- New proposed dispute system: There are concerns about users not being able to leave a message when they dispute a moderation. I think a good compromise here is to allow a very short message (maybe "Tweet"-sized) so that a quick statement can be made without getting into a crazed rant. We still wouldn't be offering a response in return, only an overturn or an uphold.

- Cracking down on trolls who make new accounts: The problem with this is that it is extremely easy to become anonymous if you really want to. We do our best to catch repeat offenders, and we are often successful, but it's literally impossible to stop someone if they really and truly want to come back. At that point our only options are reactive rather than proactive. That means we have to wait until they make themselves known and then nuke the account. Unfortunately, that generally means that they will have time to make some posts. I would love to be able to completely solve this problem, but it can't be done. Also noted that most people who complained we aren't harsh enough on trolls seemed to be talking specifically about this and not just generally speaking.

- Publishing usermaps: This only punishes people who use alts responsibly. Trust me, the people who you would want to see the usermap for don't have one because they know how to be anonymous. If they did have one, we'd have a much easier time just banning the accounts as they pop up. See above.

- Board Leaders: This is conceptual. I haven't really put thought into how these would be chosen. They would obviously be vetted to ensure no notable moderation history and once picked, closely monitored to make sure the status wasn't abused.
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User Info: Alucard188

Alucard188
4 weeks ago#2
SBAllen posted...
- Spoiler expiration dates: The majority of users seem to dislike this idea, so we'll probably scrap it.


Sounds good.

SBAllen posted...
- New proposed dispute system: There are concerns about users not being able to leave a message when they dispute a moderation. I think a good compromise here is to allow a very short message (maybe "Tweet"-sized) so that a quick statement can be made without getting into a crazed rant. We still wouldn't be offering a response in return, only an overturn or an uphold.


I like this idea. There's no reason for users to send off 3 paragraphs about why their NKL wasn't a violation, nor does it give them enough space to be eloquent in their offensive comments towards the mod staff, should they decide to leave them.
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User Info: pokedude900

pokedude900
4 weeks ago#3
Have you considered my idea for cracking down on the most problematic trolls; the ones that do just enough to not get banned?
Had an idea that might help with trolling problem a little better. We have a system in place now where repeat offenders within a short timespan will be moderated more harshly. That's all well and good, but it's way too easy for people to game the system by simply waiting a couple weeks until their history expires before they continue trolling. In addition to the short-term history, we need a long-term one. All moderations should be kept in the system for one year regardless of severity. Now that's not to say three karma-loss moderations in one year should be treated the same as in one week. But if there's a clear pattern of someone committing almost-but-not-quite severe violations every month or two, chances are they're doing it on purpose and should probably be banned.

This is roughly how my workplace handles tardies and unexcused absences. They allow a certain amount of different types per month before termination, but they also keep track over a year to see if there's a pattern of someone brushing up against the limit repeatedly.


As for the ones that do get banned and make alts. While I understand why IP bans/usermap axes aren't surefire ways of dealing with repeat offenders, you would still eliminate a lot of them. If someone gets banned, they shouldn't have free reign to keep posting. Stating that you're a user who was recently banned should be a bannable offense. Your mindset of "it won't solve the problem 100%, so it's not worth doing at all" is the reason trolls are able to thrive on this site. If it's harder for them to do their thing, there's a better chance of them leaving and going to some other lawless corner of the internet.
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(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: SBAllen

SBAllen
4 weeks ago#4
We do track moderations for an extended period so we do catch those folks eventually. And if someone comes back and literally says "I was recently banned", report that and they'll be banned again as soon as we see it. That's what I was saying above, we have to respond to these people reactively when they make themselves known. We can't find those posts without them being reported to us.
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User Info: pokedude900

pokedude900
4 weeks ago#5
Uh...what? I lurk Ask the Mods from time to time. They always say that sidestepping a ban with an alt account isn't against the rules. Here's the most recent one when searching "alt".

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/10-ask-the-mods/75416278

And I frequently deal with users who get suspended multiple times a year on the same account and still cause trouble to this day. I leave notes explaining the situation, and nothing is ever done about them.
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(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: Alucard188

Alucard188
4 weeks ago#6
pokedude900 posted...
Uh...what? I lurk Ask the Mods from time to time. They always say that sidestepping a ban with an alt account isn't against the rules. Here's the most recent one when searching "alt".

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/10-ask-the-mods/75416278

And I frequently deal with users who get suspended multiple times a year on the same account and still cause trouble to this day. I leave notes explaining the situation, and nothing is ever done about them.


Sidestepping a ban with an alt isn't a problem if they plan to abide by the rules and engage with the community. Posting to say "lol I was just banned." without any attempt to engage in a conversation betrays their intent to not change their posting style, and thus makes it easier for us to work on them. That's what Allen is saying. If someone's sole intent is to disrupt and antagonize the userbase, they will be dealt with. It's also important to remember that being caustic and aggressive in your posts isn't a ToS violation, either.
Face it Cloud is a gaming icon and has appered in lots of games while mario has only appeared in 2 games sunshine and 64~xSlashbomBx

User Info: SBAllen

SBAllen
4 weeks ago#7
You're talking about two different scenarios here. People aren't forbidden from creating new accounts when they are banned (though without "cheating" by hiding their identity, they do have to wait a set time before the system lets them make a new account). If they come back and don't post anything against the rules, there's nothing to report them for. If you think that I meant otherwise, then either I wasn't very clear in my response or didn't fully understand your question.

Now if they get banned for something and then start coming back over and over and announcing that they are back from a ban each time, we'll just ban them again. Again, it's reactive and often is based on the user in question. We have people who get banned then come back and become great members of the community, then we have people who are on their 200th new account just to do their same schtick again. Those are the ones that will get banned as soon as they announce who they are.
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User Info: pokedude900

pokedude900
4 weeks ago#8
But that's the problem. If someone gets banned, it should be more than a slap on the wrist. They should actually be banned. Alts and all. Maybe not forever, but at least a couple months. Otherwise what's the point of having the moderation system in the first place? Trolls do whatever they want because they know there are no real repercussions. Honestly, how many users get banned and immediately change their ways with their next alt?

And for the users who manage to avoid bans, two suspensions in a year should be a ban. Period. It is REALLY hard to get suspended if you have even the most basic understanding of the rules, so I don't think this is too harsh.
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User Info: SBAllen

SBAllen
4 weeks ago#9
The official wait time is around that long. Unofficially (and again we literally can't stop people from hiding their identity) is of course shorter. But if they come back and don't break the rules, they aren't hurting anybody so I'm not really sure why you care there. If they do break the rules, they'll get banned again.

You seem to have a torch for some specific user or users here. If there's someone who is getting away with this and not getting banned, feel free to contact me privately about it. Otherwise, we are already doing what you are arguing for so I'm not really sure what else you want us to do past what we're doing.
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User Info: P4wn4g3

P4wn4g3
4 weeks ago#10
SBAllen posted...
- Spoiler expiration dates: The majority of users seem to dislike this idea, so we'll probably scrap it.

Probably for the best. I like the idea of some sort of long standing expiration date, but getting agreement on when spoilers expire and what media it applies to would be a nightmare.

SBAllen posted...
- New proposed dispute system: There are concerns about users not being able to leave a message when they dispute a moderation. I think a good compromise here is to allow a very short message (maybe "Tweet"-sized) so that a quick statement can be made without getting into a crazed rant. We still wouldn't be offering a response in return, only an overturn or an uphold.

Inline with the already proposed system this should be good.

SBAllen posted...
- Board Leaders:

I preferred the idea of having certain community boards able to be linked to game boards, I'm unclear why you strayed from that. Though given the scope of the changes, maybe you are expecting a large increase in traffic. You really need to provide more detail here, like I might sign up for a Metroid game board leadership position for example but you aren't giving much detail on what that might be. Also the politics board doesn't need this position, pretty sure none of the social boards do.
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