Everyone here needs to watch this.

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  3. Everyone here needs to watch this.

User Info: DaLagga

DaLagga
1 year ago#51
master_m11 posted...
I think the Vita failed for multiple reasons more than just not getting great 3rd party games. Had it had its own qaulity exclusives it would have did a lot better. The expensive memory cards were also a problem.


Oh, I agree. I was just touching on some of the main points throughout my response but naturally, we could easily max the thread at 500 posts if we wanted to fully analyze why these systems failed or succeeded. Ultimately, the Vita was a complete failure because Sony let it die on the vine. The PSP on the other hand was still a huge success even if it didn't come close to the sales of the DS because Sony actually put the time and effort in to properly support it.

It's speculation on what can and can't be played on the Switch and sales do factor in regardless if a console is "too weak" or not. That's why they were still making games for Ps3/360 when Ps4/Xone came out. Not to mention Switch could get its own 3rd party exclusives being handheld and being successful of course.


Well, as a device limited by handheld constraints, there's simply no way it will be able to play most 8th gen games. Not unless they get gutted and heavily downgraded which, as we've seen with both the Wii and Wii U, most developers aren't going to do. But ultimately, even if it is a success, most 3rd parties still won't support it because it can't run more ambitious modern titles. The Wii for example was a huge success initially and 3rd parties still abandoned it like the plague which is why its massive library is dominated by 1st party Nintendo titles and shovelware.

I greatly disagree with what you are saying with the handheld market.. Phones and tablets have s***ty games with no controller.. No true gamer wants to play s*** like that. The Switch can capitalize on the handheld market and have popular games that will boost sales like pokemon and fire Emblem.


I'm not talking about personal opinions here though. I'm talking about the objective fact that the handheld market has been in sharp decline for years now. Despite having plenty of games, the 3DS for example will never sell anywhere near as well as the DS. And as if that weren't bad enough, it's even worse when we consider the fact that the 3DS has had virtually no competition while the DS had to contend with the PSP which was a huge success in its own right and sold 80 million units. We can debate the reasons, but the fact that the handheld market is quickly dying is not really debatable.

Personally though, I think handhelds are dying because by their very nature they tend to be quite casual and most of that casual audience has moved on to mobile devices. The more hardcore gamers out there however would rather just stick to traditional consoles or the PC which leaves very little space for a middling device that's really, in most cases, the worst of both worlds. As for myself, I'd rather just use a laptop to game on the go. That way I can play real games that put dumbed down handheld titles to shame while also having all the functionality of a PC in a device small enough to fit into a small storage bag. Handhelds just really don't have much of a place anymore which is why they're in sharp decline.

User Info: DaLagga

DaLagga
1 year ago#52
meiyuki posted...
DaLagga posted...
I'm sorry if the facts disturb you little one, but based on everything we know so far it doesn't look like the Switch's future will be too bright.


Before you post again look up and understand the mhz myth please. Also look up the definition of the word know. Here's what we know about the switch. It's got a dock to play games on the tv and can be removed to go portable. It has detachable controllers. The chip is made by nvidia.


It is you who understand nothing about clock speed and why it matters. As someone who builds PC's and has spent plenty of time overclocking, I can assure you, clock speed matters. It's not the end all be all of comparisons, especially when we're comparing very different devices, but it is still a useful metric. It is however extremely reliable when we're comparing a device of known performance like the Tegra X1 with a severely downclocked version of the same technology. Make all the excuses you want, but a massively underclocked X1 is going to perform dramatically worse than the base unit. That's just reality.

User Info: Placiibo

Placiibo
1 year ago#53
DiscostewSM posted...
DaLagga posted...
As cringy as this guy is, I find myself agreeing with him more often than not. The fact is, the specs for the Switch wouldn't even be that bad if it were just a successor to the 3DS. But it's not. It's being marketed as a hybrid device that is meant to function as a home console as well as a handheld. So for a flagship console, the specs are obviously beyond pathetic seeing as how it's even worse than the Wii and Wii U were relative to the tech at the time of their releases.

Ultimately though, what this really means is that Nintendo has finally abandoned the home console market and have instead devoted all of their resources to milking the handheld market as much as possible before it dries up. That's really the take home point here that hardly anyone seems to be discussing. For the first time in over 30 years, Nintendo will not have a real console on the market because it seems that even they've finally realized that they can't compete in that space. With their new devotion to mobile devices, it will be interesting to see where they're at in a few years. Once the handheld market is dead will they become a mobile developer exclusively, or will they finally go the way of Sega and become a 3rd party software developer?

Wait, so if it were just a 3DS successor, it's not bad, but considering it's practically a 3DS successor with more, it's now bad? Are we living in Bizarro world now?

The reason it's bad is the messaging. Nintendo is calling it a console hybrid. We don't know the price, but most estimates start at $250. That is the price 3DS bombed at. So while Switch is a fantastic portable, it is also really expensive for a portable. Vita did poor at that price too. Nintendo is choosing to highlight the console abilities first so that people will mentally relate it to console prices. Honestly I don't think it's working. The moment you say "this is a console" and ask a console price, you immediately invite comparisons to the other big consoles on the market, and Switch is way less powerful. I think Nintendo should be advertising as a "powerful portable" first, even at the dreaded $250. It will end the console comparisons which are so damaging right now. They also need to show off really good, really fresh games.
Warning: the post you just read may contain satire, hyperbole, or deadpan. Reader digression is advised.

User Info: Rizeroth

Rizeroth
1 year ago#54
DaLagga posted...
Digital Foundry isn't the source though and they say as much in their article. Their source however does appear to be credible and the information does fit what we already know and our expectations of Nintendo. They don't make use of cutting edge tech and haven't in over 15 years. Instead, they rely on older tech that they can sell relatively cheap for profit. So for a handheld that is expected to be priced ~$250 for the base unit, this is exactly what we'd expect spec wise.

Yes the source isn't digital foundry. It's a "big" source who appears to be basing things on old dev kits. And 200$ was the Nvidia Shield Tablet with tegra X1 so no, 250$ or more from nintendo should have something more powerful than the X1 at least. And even the Tegra X1 at full potential is much more powerful than the WiiU. But again, that isn't the point here.

DaLagga posted...
Only if you want mindless reassurance from a Nintendo apologist who would rather stick his head in the sand than face reality.

Jesus Christ dude. It's like you've never seen a nintendo fan play on anything other than a Nintendo console. The guy i linked to posts more non nintendo news than nintendo news. And he, nor i, ever claimed the NS to be PS4 level powerful. He says the sensible thing that we should stop spreading doom and gloom over rumors while taking them as facts which are possible but at most they are conflicting and vague and he goes to show why are they so.

Get your triggered "nintendo is doomed" head out of your ass and stop shooting at things that aren't against you. Guys like you are nothing new in this world. Classic avoidance conditioning right here people.
Zelda is a freaking NINJA!!

User Info: DaLagga

DaLagga
1 year ago#55
Rizeroth posted...
Yes the source isn't digital foundry. It's a "big" source who appears to be basing things on old dev kits. And 200$ was the Nvidia Shield Tablet with tegra X1 so no, 250$ or more from nintendo should have something more powerful than the X1 at least. And even the Tegra X1 at full potential is much more powerful than the WiiU. But again, that isn't the point here.


First off, the whole "old dev kit" argument really took a beating years ago with the Wii U where it was finally confirmed that rumors based on early dev kits turned out to be 100% true of the final unit. The fact is, even early dev kits tend to be very close in performance to the final unit because, as a dev kit, the whole point is to make it possible for developers to make games for the final product. If the specs were too far off the mark then this wouldn't be possible. Second, the Nvidia Shield was a lot bigger and bulkier than the portable portion of the Switch. As such, a smaller sleeker device is likely to be more expensive. On top of that, you also have to factor in the cost of the dock.

Jesus Christ dude. It's like you've never seen a nintendo fan play on anything other than a Nintendo console. The guy i linked to posts more non nintendo news than nintendo news. And he, nor i, ever claimed the NS to be PS4 level powerful. He says the sensible thing that we should stop spreading doom and gloom over rumors while taking them as facts which are possible but at most they are conflicting and vague and he goes to show why are they so.

Get your triggered "nintendo is doomed" head out of your ass and stop shooting at things that aren't against you. Guys like you are nothing new in this world. Classic avoidance conditioning right here people.


I don't care what the rest of his content is like. All I watched was the video in question where he ignored the highly credible rumors and then tried to argue that there's such thing as the mhz myth when nothing could be further from the truth. If it's using a Tegra X1, then a heavily downlocked version is going to run much much worse. Ultimately, the video had very little substance and seemed like it was made simply to defend Nintendo without providing any actual reasons why people should be optimistic about the Switch.

User Info: Rizeroth

Rizeroth
1 year ago#56
DaLagga posted...
Rizeroth posted...
Yes the source isn't digital foundry. It's a "big" source who appears to be basing things on old dev kits. And 200$ was the Nvidia Shield Tablet with tegra X1 so no, 250$ or more from nintendo should have something more powerful than the X1 at least. And even the Tegra X1 at full potential is much more powerful than the WiiU. But again, that isn't the point here.


First off, the whole "old dev kit" argument really took a beating years ago with the Wii U where it was finally confirmed that rumors based on early dev kits turned out to be 100% true of the final unit. The fact is, even early dev kits tend to be very close in performance to the final unit because, as a dev kit, the whole point is to make it possible for developers to make games for the final product. If the specs were too far off the mark then this wouldn't be possible. Second, the Nvidia Shield was a lot bigger and bulkier than the portable portion of the Switch. As such, a smaller sleeker device is likely to be more expensive. On top of that, you also have to factor in the cost of the dock.

Jesus Christ dude. It's like you've never seen a nintendo fan play on anything other than a Nintendo console. The guy i linked to posts more non nintendo news than nintendo news. And he, nor i, ever claimed the NS to be PS4 level powerful. He says the sensible thing that we should stop spreading doom and gloom over rumors while taking them as facts which are possible but at most they are conflicting and vague and he goes to show why are they so.

Get your triggered "nintendo is doomed" head out of your ass and stop shooting at things that aren't against you. Guys like you are nothing new in this world. Classic avoidance conditioning right here people.


I don't care what the rest of his content is like. All I watched was the video in question where he ignored the highly credible rumors and then tried to argue that there's such thing as the mhz myth when nothing could be further from the truth. If it's using a Tegra X1, then a heavily downlocked version is going to run much much worse. Ultimately, the video had very little substance and seemed like it was made simply to defend Nintendo without providing any actual reasons why people should be optimistic about the Switch.

IGNORED it? He himself said that digital foundry and euorogamer are considered as credible by people (i don't agree with digitalFoundry). And you aren't providing any ACTUAL reasons for people to not be optimistic when you base everything on rumors and present it as facts which they aren't. Have you seen the word FACT anywhere at all on those sources? If you were speculating then i'd be right there with you because even i planned to wait a whole year before buying the NS right after its reveal. But you are taking rumors and negativity and flying them to the moon same as people did with the PS3 (in a different context though) and riding the "nintendo is doomed" train based on nothing but RUMORS and you are treating and calling them facts. Holy Hell man. No one is FORCING you to buy the NS. Get a life. It's just a toy. And no need to do it for the sake of other buyers because we are more capable than you in making our own decisions and deciding what's good for us. Not believing in rumors till its proven as facts is something taught at a very basic level. And then we wonder why we have war and terrorism in this world.
Zelda is a freaking NINJA!!

User Info: riboflav

riboflav
1 year ago#57
Rizeroth posted...
DaLagga posted...
Rizeroth posted...
Yes the source isn't digital foundry. It's a "big" source who appears to be basing things on old dev kits. And 200$ was the Nvidia Shield Tablet with tegra X1 so no, 250$ or more from nintendo should have something more powerful than the X1 at least. And even the Tegra X1 at full potential is much more powerful than the WiiU. But again, that isn't the point here.


First off, the whole "old dev kit" argument really took a beating years ago with the Wii U where it was finally confirmed that rumors based on early dev kits turned out to be 100% true of the final unit. The fact is, even early dev kits tend to be very close in performance to the final unit because, as a dev kit, the whole point is to make it possible for developers to make games for the final product. If the specs were too far off the mark then this wouldn't be possible. Second, the Nvidia Shield was a lot bigger and bulkier than the portable portion of the Switch. As such, a smaller sleeker device is likely to be more expensive. On top of that, you also have to factor in the cost of the dock.

Jesus Christ dude. It's like you've never seen a nintendo fan play on anything other than a Nintendo console. The guy i linked to posts more non nintendo news than nintendo news. And he, nor i, ever claimed the NS to be PS4 level powerful. He says the sensible thing that we should stop spreading doom and gloom over rumors while taking them as facts which are possible but at most they are conflicting and vague and he goes to show why are they so.

Get your triggered "nintendo is doomed" head out of your ass and stop shooting at things that aren't against you. Guys like you are nothing new in this world. Classic avoidance conditioning right here people.


I don't care what the rest of his content is like. All I watched was the video in question where he ignored the highly credible rumors and then tried to argue that there's such thing as the mhz myth when nothing could be further from the truth. If it's using a Tegra X1, then a heavily downlocked version is going to run much much worse. Ultimately, the video had very little substance and seemed like it was made simply to defend Nintendo without providing any actual reasons why people should be optimistic about the Switch.

IGNORED it? He himself said that digital foundry and euorogamer are considered as credible by people (i don't agree with digitalFoundry). And you aren't providing any ACTUAL reasons for people to not be optimistic when you base everything on rumors and present it as facts which they aren't. Have you seen the word FACT anywhere at all on those sources? If you were speculating then i'd be right there with you because even i planned to wait a whole year before buying the NS right after its reveal. But you are taking rumors and negativity and flying them to the moon same as people did with the PS3 (in a different context though) and riding the "nintendo is doomed" train based on nothing but RUMORS and you are treating and calling them facts. Holy Hell man. No one is FORCING you to buy the NS. Get a life. It's just a toy. And no need to do it for the sake of other buyers because we are more capable than you in making our own decisions and deciding what's good for us. Not believing in rumors till its proven as facts is something taught at a very basic level. And then we wonder why we have war and terrorism in this world.

Wow, that was AWESOME! Good job on that post, I'm glad there are a few sensible people left. I have nothing to add to that. It's wrapped up and we finally have a winner (Rizeroth for the post) and gamers (for buying what they want)! THE END - FIN

User Info: DaLagga

DaLagga
1 year ago#58
Rizeroth posted...
IGNORED it? He himself said that digital foundry and euorogamer are considered as credible by people (i don't agree with digitalFoundry). And you aren't providing any ACTUAL reasons for people to not be optimistic when you base everything on rumors and present it as facts which they aren't. Have you seen the word FACT anywhere at all on those sources? If you were speculating then i'd be right there with you because even i planned to wait a whole year before buying the NS right after its reveal. But you are taking rumors and negativity and flying them to the moon same as people did with the PS3 (in a different context though) and riding the "nintendo is doomed" train based on nothing but RUMORS and you are treating and calling them facts. Holy Hell man. No one is FORCING you to buy the NS. Get a life. It's just a toy. And no need to do it for the sake of other buyers because we are more capable than you in making our own decisions and deciding what's good for us. Not believing in rumors till its proven as facts is something taught at a very basic level. And then we wonder why we have war and terrorism in this world.


You throw the word rumor around far too casually as if to suggest that because something is a rumor that it's likely to be untrue. With these Switch rumors, this couldn't be further from the truth considering the sources and the way that the information falls in line with what we already know. For example, we know Nintendo likes to use cheap outdated hardware (i.e. look at the Wii, Wii U, DS, and 3DS). We also know that the performance profile of a handheld is going to be monumentally disappointing compared to a console. We also know that you can't just build a handheld and then design a docking bay that will dramatically augment the power of the base unit as this would necessitate the design two dramatically different versions of every game made for the system.

These are all things we know based on past experience or current common knowledge and the specs of the Switch fall right in line with all of it. You can hold out hope if you want, but I'd be willing to be my account that the leaked specs are at the very least close to the specs of the final system and that its performance profile has been nailed down with a fairly high degree of accuracy. Would you care to make the same bet?

User Info: riboflav

riboflav
1 year ago#59
DaLagga posted...
Rizeroth posted...
IGNORED it? He himself said that digital foundry and euorogamer are considered as credible by people (i don't agree with digitalFoundry). And you aren't providing any ACTUAL reasons for people to not be optimistic when you base everything on rumors and present it as facts which they aren't. Have you seen the word FACT anywhere at all on those sources? If you were speculating then i'd be right there with you because even i planned to wait a whole year before buying the NS right after its reveal. But you are taking rumors and negativity and flying them to the moon same as people did with the PS3 (in a different context though) and riding the "nintendo is doomed" train based on nothing but RUMORS and you are treating and calling them facts. Holy Hell man. No one is FORCING you to buy the NS. Get a life. It's just a toy. And no need to do it for the sake of other buyers because we are more capable than you in making our own decisions and deciding what's good for us. Not believing in rumors till its proven as facts is something taught at a very basic level. And then we wonder why we have war and terrorism in this world.


You throw the word rumor around far too casually as if to suggest that because something is a rumor that it's likely to be untrue. With these Switch rumors, this couldn't be further from the truth considering the sources and the way that the information falls in line with what we already know. For example, we know Nintendo likes to use cheap outdated hardware (i.e. look at the Wii, Wii U, DS, and 3DS). We also know that the performance profile of a handheld is going to be monumentally disappointing compared to a console. We also know that you can't just build a handheld and then design a docking bay that will dramatically augment the power of the base unit as this would necessitate the design two dramatically different versions of every game made for the system.

These are all things we know based on past experience or current common knowledge and the specs of the Switch fall right in line with all of it. You can hold out hope if you want, but I'd be willing to be my account that the leaked specs are at the very least close to the specs of the final system and that its performance profile has been nailed down with a fairly high degree of accuracy. Would you care to make the same bet?

This post is foul, I've already declared FIN on this topic. My ruling still stands. One cannot use rumours to come to any conclusions. Furthermore, lies aren't moral: WiiU and 3DS were not using weak hardware when they came out. Also, historical information can't be used to predict the future.
Rizeroth is still the clear winner as he's displayed the most common sense.

User Info: Rizeroth

Rizeroth
1 year ago#60
DaLagga posted...
Rizeroth posted...
IGNORED it? He himself said that digital foundry and euorogamer are considered as credible by people (i don't agree with digitalFoundry). And you aren't providing any ACTUAL reasons for people to not be optimistic when you base everything on rumors and present it as facts which they aren't. Have you seen the word FACT anywhere at all on those sources? If you were speculating then i'd be right there with you because even i planned to wait a whole year before buying the NS right after its reveal. But you are taking rumors and negativity and flying them to the moon same as people did with the PS3 (in a different context though) and riding the "nintendo is doomed" train based on nothing but RUMORS and you are treating and calling them facts. Holy Hell man. No one is FORCING you to buy the NS. Get a life. It's just a toy. And no need to do it for the sake of other buyers because we are more capable than you in making our own decisions and deciding what's good for us. Not believing in rumors till its proven as facts is something taught at a very basic level. And then we wonder why we have war and terrorism in this world.




These are all things we know based on past experience or current common knowledge and the specs of the Switch fall right in line with all of it. You can hold out hope if you want, but I'd be willing to be my account that the leaked specs are at the very least close to the specs of the final system and that its performance profile has been nailed down with a fairly high degree of accuracy. Would you care to make the same bet?

And? Still doesn't change that it's a rumor and that the possibility of this being not true exists because current common knowledge and official reports by Nintendo, Nvidia and 3rd party devs also supports the opposite. And if i bought consoles on performance power then i wouldn't have bought Wii, PSP, 3DS, PS2. I'm not looking to fry toasters. I wouldn't have even bought the PS4 since it's a small console generation jump and it doesn't offer anything that PCs today offer with more features and more effective long term costs.

People will buy this on video games alone as evidenced by 3DS. People will buy this because it's a handheld alone (even though it's much more interesting) as evidenced by nearly every handheld console ever.

And console companies are usually known to make a comeback after bad falls and not necessarily via power. So far, based on what's shown nintendo is learning. But i am still willing to wait and see. As i said, if you were speculating then i'd be right up there with you but you are flying this rumor plane waaaay too high.

What interests me so far about the NS is its massive potential, the sweet looking and performing zelda game and enhanced content ports of WiiU games i couldn't get IF those are true. I'm talking about the trailer ones but i would love XCX which seems locked due to a special tweet. And the big games tweeted by other 3rd party devs and possibly more 3rd parties in the future. Some of this is again a rumor of course so that's why i want to wait till Jan.

And this argument is literally getting no one anywhere since there is literally no concrete info whatsoever. I need to go anyway. I don't spend my time here 24/7. What i said before this post still stands. The way people are taking rumors as facts here is beyond baffling and is nothing new or convincing on the internet.
Zelda is a freaking NINJA!!
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