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VGC18 Ruleset indicates Dusk Lycanroc is breedable

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User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
2 months ago#251
Inferno05 posted...
Please, this past VGC were full of trash because no Megas. UB and Tapu everywhere because there's little powerful enough to stand in their way without Megas. Now not only do they have competition, but now there are more powerhouse options on a team, so a team is somewhat less likely to have them.

More variety in VGC is never a bad thing, and several Pokemon weren't seeing VGC without their Megas.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read: you sound like someone who saw who the top BST mons were and never actually played the meta, and just assumed "lol, everything's gonna get trashed by these 570 mons"; this meta was actually the best ever, the most balanced (at least IMO); some Tapus and some UBs were prevalent, sure, but lol at playing with a team full of them.

The meta consistently shifted, and I'd argue that the more interesting tactics came from mons that don't belong to either of those categories.

VGC 17 had the most varied Worlds yet.

And what you said about "more powerhouse options replacing the others" makes 0 sense: there's no limit to how many Tapus and UBs you can have on a team, so technically one could simply bring one Mega + all UBs and Tapus - since you apparently think that's a good idea - and the power gap between those and every other "crap mon" would be even larger. They're not "alternatives", one or the other, they all co-exist.

So in short
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world."

User Info: aryanbrar

aryanbrar
2 months ago#252
yeh that was a problem in last year's vgc
you could have a primal + xerneas + OP mega or 2 primals + OP mega, not to mention other annoying broken crap like talon flame/smeargle/pranksters in the back

User Info: Inferno05

Inferno05
2 months ago#253
Andrex_93 posted...
This is the stupidest thing I've ever read: you sound like someone who saw who the top BST mons were and never actually played the meta, and just assumed "lol, everything's gonna get trashed by these 570 mons"; this meta was actually the best ever, the most balanced (at least IMO); some Tapus and some UBs were prevalent, sure, but lol at playing with a team full of them.

The meta consistently shifted, and I'd argue that the more interesting tactics came from mons that don't belong to either of those categories.

VGC 17 had the most varied Worlds yet.

And what you said about "more powerhouse options replacing the others" makes 0 sense: there's no limit to how many Tapus and UBs you can have on a team, so technically one could simply bring one Mega + all UBs and Tapus - since you apparently think that's a good idea - and the power gap between those and every other "crap mon" would be even larger. They're not "alternatives", one or the other, they all co-exist.

So in short
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

After checking the top teams from VGC 2017, I beg to differ. You wanna know what I saw? Over 70% of winning teams had Tapu Koko, Arcanine, and Garchomp. 90% of those teams also have Celesteela.

So I'm seeing about 2-3 Pokemon worth of variety, while the same 3 powerhouses and 1 wall are prevalent in just about every winning team. Variety my ass. True it wasn't as bad as the Ubers in the one before, but this was certainly not the most varied VGC by any stretch of the imagination. Oh I'm sure a bunch of people PLAYED with different mon, but how many used variety and got even close to a championship? And why does it seem almost none of them could take on Koko/Arcanine/Chomp on a team?

As for the co-existing, there's more to a team than just powerhouses. You have multiple roles to fill. While you COULD put in 1 Mega and 5 Tapus/Ultra Beasts, that team isn't going to get very far. You need anti-status, some sort of defense, some support, something to weaken the team for your sweeper(s) to have an easier time. That's to name a few possible non-sweep roles that you're not going to see come out of many Megas/Tapus/Ultras.

So the sweeper role will have more variety, and will see less of the same exact sweepers running around. And wall positions will not be held almost exclusively by Celesteela.

Now, there are plenty of checks (and even a couple counters) to this meta within the Mega population, and then after a short period where these same Megas are constantly used online, people will remember and use what checks and counters those Megas as well. Metas shift and evolve more when there are more options. Keeping Megas out only limited the options, and limited options meant a lack of variety as there were less viable Pokemon to work with.

You think anyone would use a Mawile, Bannette, Aggron, Medicham, Pidgeot, or Beedrill in VGC without their Megas? Of course not, not when Tapus and Ultra Beasts are plenty strong, and other non-Mega hitters like Garchomp are rampant as well.

It sounds to me like the ONLY thing you've even tried to pay attention to the meta for is Pokemon. That or you're just fine with knowing exactly which team's going to win: The one with the Tapu and Garchomp
3DS FC: 1994-1947-6271 IGN: Reaga X TSV: Unknown OR TSV: 3519

User Info: Jmandal

Jmandal
2 months ago#254
Inferno05 posted...
Andrex_93 posted...
This is the stupidest thing I've ever read: you sound like someone who saw who the top BST mons were and never actually played the meta, and just assumed "lol, everything's gonna get trashed by these 570 mons"; this meta was actually the best ever, the most balanced (at least IMO); some Tapus and some UBs were prevalent, sure, but lol at playing with a team full of them.

The meta consistently shifted, and I'd argue that the more interesting tactics came from mons that don't belong to either of those categories.

VGC 17 had the most varied Worlds yet.

And what you said about "more powerhouse options replacing the others" makes 0 sense: there's no limit to how many Tapus and UBs you can have on a team, so technically one could simply bring one Mega + all UBs and Tapus - since you apparently think that's a good idea - and the power gap between those and every other "crap mon" would be even larger. They're not "alternatives", one or the other, they all co-exist.

So in short
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

After checking the top teams from VGC 2017, I beg to differ. You wanna know what I saw? Over 70% of winning teams had Tapu Koko, Arcanine, and Garchomp. 90% of those teams also have Celesteela.

So I'm seeing about 2-3 Pokemon worth of variety, while the same 3 powerhouses and 1 wall are prevalent in just about every winning team. Variety my ass. True it wasn't as bad as the Ubers in the one before, but this was certainly not the most varied VGC by any stretch of the imagination. Oh I'm sure a bunch of people PLAYED with different mon, but how many used variety and got even close to a championship? And why does it seem almost none of them could take on Koko/Arcanine/Chomp on a team?

As for the co-existing, there's more to a team than just powerhouses. You have multiple roles to fill. While you COULD put in 1 Mega and 5 Tapus/Ultra Beasts, that team isn't going to get very far. You need anti-status, some sort of defense, some support, something to weaken the team for your sweeper(s) to have an easier time. That's to name a few possible non-sweep roles that you're not going to see come out of many Megas/Tapus/Ultras.

So the sweeper role will have more variety, and will see less of the same exact sweepers running around. And wall positions will not be held almost exclusively by Celesteela.

Now, there are plenty of checks (and even a couple counters) to this meta within the Mega population, and then after a short period where these same Megas are constantly used online, people will remember and use what checks and counters those Megas as well. Metas shift and evolve more when there are more options. Keeping Megas out only limited the options, and limited options meant a lack of variety as there were less viable Pokemon to work with.

You think anyone would use a Mawile, Bannette, Aggron, Medicham, Pidgeot, or Beedrill in VGC without their Megas? Of course not, not when Tapus and Ultra Beasts are plenty strong, and other non-Mega hitters like Garchomp are rampant as well.

It sounds to me like the ONLY thing you've even tried to pay attention to the meta for is Pokemon. That or you're just fine with knowing exactly which team's going to win: The one with the Tapu and Garchomp

You make a number of sound, valid points in this post. However, be prepared for the collective hivemind to disregard your points and insult your intelligence at the same time.
3DS FC: 2079-7184-6866 God of the trolls.
Official Talonflame Poacher of all boards. http://i.imgur.com/L3sICgD.png

User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
2 months ago#255
Inferno05 posted...
After checking the top teams from VGC 2017, I beg to differ. You wanna know what I saw? Over 70% of winning teams had Tapu Koko, Arcanine, and Garchomp. 90% of those teams also have Celesteela.

So I'm seeing about 2-3 Pokemon worth of variety, while the same 3 powerhouses and 1 wall are prevalent in just about every winning team. Variety my ass. True it wasn't as bad as the Ubers in the one before, but this was certainly not the most varied VGC by any stretch of the imagination. Oh I'm sure a bunch of people PLAYED with different mon, but how many used variety and got even close to a championship? And why does it seem almost none of them could take on Koko/Arcanine/Chomp on a team?

Do you even read what MegaCamerupt said? Do you even know that VGC 17 was the most varied ever, even if going just by Top Wolrds team, IIRC? That the World Champion had neither Arcanine nor Garchomp on his team? And that Celesteela wildly felt out of usage after the first quarter of the format, pretty much, and only now has seen a resurgence of sorts?

Inferno05 posted...
As for the co-existing, there's more to a team than just powerhouses. You have multiple roles to fill. While you COULD put in 1 Mega and 5 Tapus/Ultra Beasts, that team isn't going to get very far. You need anti-status, some sort of defense, some support, something to weaken the team for your sweeper(s) to have an easier time. That's to name a few possible non-sweep roles that you're not going to see come out of many Megas/Tapus/Ultras.

But what you said is even more valid in a meta without Megas, which was my original point. Megas just add to the power creep.

Inferno05 posted...
So the sweeper role will have more variety, and will see less of the same exact sweepers running around. And wall positions will not be held almost exclusively by Celesteela.

There would be less choice in sweepers because the viable, top Megas and the surviving other mons will take those spots, and since the power gap is larger, the number will actually be much less than what it is, now, and walls will be even less prominent because HO is much more encouraged, with those disgusting abominations running around.

Inferno05 posted...
Now, there are plenty of checks (and even a couple counters) to this meta within the Mega population, and then after a short period where these same Megas are constantly used online, people will remember and use what checks and counters those Megas as well. Metas shift and evolve more when there are more options. Keeping Megas out only limited the options, and limited options meant a lack of variety as there were less viable Pokemon to work with.

False: again, did you experience the multiple meta-shifts of this year? And, tmk, the comparable lack of those in past, Mega years? Especially the disgustingness that was VGC 16.

Inferno05 posted...
You think anyone would use a Mawile, Bannette, Aggron, Medicham, Pidgeot, or Beedrill in VGC without their Megas? Of course not, not when Tapus and Ultra Beasts are plenty strong, and other non-Mega hitters like Garchomp are rampant as well.

That's not why those Megas won't be used: they won't be used because the top Megas will inevitably take their spot on a team, since you have to run the best thing in competitive, otherwise you're handicapping yourself; that means less variety.
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world."

User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
2 months ago#256
Inferno05 posted...
It sounds to me like the ONLY thing you've even tried to pay attention to the meta for is Pokemon. That or you're just fine with knowing exactly which team's going to win: The one with the Tapu and Garchomp

lol, I see you only looked wrong at data and are trying to generalize it in a wrong way.

Look, I'm not claiming to know the ins and outs of VGC18 already: but to claim that Megas will bring overall more variety than this year is simply asinine, and if you played any VGC meta with and without Megas, you would know this in an instant.

Jmandal posted...
You make a number of sound, valid points in this post. However, be prepared for the collective hivemind to disregard your points and insult your intelligence at the same time.

lol
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world."

User Info: MegaCamerupt

MegaCamerupt
2 months ago#257
you'd think jmandal of all people would know I am most certainly capable of thinking for myself

maybe it's time for a reminder

User Info: MegaCamerupt

MegaCamerupt
2 months ago#258
nvm eevee just won a regional f*** this format can we just play vgc18 now
#259
(message deleted)

User Info: Jmandal

Jmandal
2 months ago#260
MegaCamerupt posted...
you'd think jmandal of all people would know I am most certainly capable of thinking for myself

maybe it's time for a reminder

Let me correct myself. You are a very capable battler my friend. If a reminder means a vgc battle, I’d love to battle you again sometime.

@MegaCamerupt
3DS FC: 2079-7184-6866 God of the trolls.
Official Talonflame Poacher of all boards. http://i.imgur.com/L3sICgD.png
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