isn't karate actually pretty effective in a real fight?

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  3. isn't karate actually pretty effective in a real fight?

User Info: copenhagenLongC

copenhagenLongC
6 months ago#61
They arent displaying proper defense. Theyre just backpedalling to avoid obvious shots and tanking faster shots and charging forward to deliver their own attacks. Maybe not all karate is the same.

That is what kills karate, like 80% of the reason. Its terrible punch(to the face) defense, defense in general, and weak punches. Their hands should be defending their face, in a position to intercept incoming punches or other strikes, ya know thats the first thing you wanna do when deciding on your stance. But none of them are protecting their face, and none showed proper face/head defense. Go to a MT club and you will NOT see that. Defense is the first thing you learn. You are trained to never drop your hands and to watch for incoming strikes and block or dodge accordingly. We dont let our hands hang at our sides thats a recipe for distaster...and thats exactly what karate guys do. So before you blast me any more, thats the reason I think karate has giant exploitable holes.

Also, implying I would aim to hurt anyone in sparring? Dammn you dont know me at all do you. That's beneath me.
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User Info: Baki187

Baki187
6 months ago#62
copenhagenLongC posted...
They arent displaying proper defense. Theyre just backpedalling to avoid obvious shots and tanking faster shots and charging forward to deliver their own attacks. Maybe not all karate is the same.

That is what kills karate, like 80% of the reason. Its terrible punch(to the face) defense, defense in general, and weak punches. Their hands should be defending their face, in a position to intercept incoming punches or other strikes, ya know thats the first thing you wanna do when deciding on your stance. But none of them are protecting their face, and none showed proper face/head defense. Go to a MT club and you will NOT see that. Defense is the first thing you learn. You are trained to never drop your hands and to watch for incoming strikes and block or dodge accordingly. We dont let our hands hang at our sides thats a recipe for distaster...and thats exactly what karate guys do. So before you blast me any more, thats the reason I think karate has giant exploitable holes.

Also, implying I would aim to hurt anyone in sparring? Dammn you dont know me at all do you. That's beneath me.


I wasnt implying you... im just saying things might look different if these guys were going 100% and not point sparring and especially if some guy off the street came in there trying to go hard with them, they would probably look differently. Ive seen guys like that get laid out just for not wearing head gear at certain school's.(It was a sign of disrespect and we tried to enlighten the guy but he wouldn't listen cause he was a ex-boxer and didnt need head gear.)

Also of higher level guys do parry alot like traditional Muai Thai keeping the front hand out to intercept shots or knock the other fighters guard around. Albeit most of these guys just try and remain elusive and land precise shots.

Also alot of people would say the best way to block a punch is not to be there and IMO it's true. You play with fire on the inside... there's not a whole lot of ways around that. It's not that you shouldn't learn to fight on the inside, its just overall if your trying to not be hit staying on the outside and avoiding till the time is right is simply the better option.

User Info: copenhagenLongC

copenhagenLongC
6 months ago#63
Baki187 posted...
copenhagenLongC posted...
They arent displaying proper defense. Theyre just backpedalling to avoid obvious shots and tanking faster shots and charging forward to deliver their own attacks. Maybe not all karate is the same.

That is what kills karate, like 80% of the reason. Its terrible punch(to the face) defense, defense in general, and weak punches. Their hands should be defending their face, in a position to intercept incoming punches or other strikes, ya know thats the first thing you wanna do when deciding on your stance. But none of them are protecting their face, and none showed proper face/head defense. Go to a MT club and you will NOT see that. Defense is the first thing you learn. You are trained to never drop your hands and to watch for incoming strikes and block or dodge accordingly. We dont let our hands hang at our sides thats a recipe for distaster...and thats exactly what karate guys do. So before you blast me any more, thats the reason I think karate has giant exploitable holes.

Also, implying I would aim to hurt anyone in sparring? Dammn you dont know me at all do you. That's beneath me.


I wasnt implying you... im just saying things might look different if these guys were going 100% and not point sparring and especially if some guy off the street came in there trying to go hard with them, they would probably look differently. Ive seen guys like that get laid out just for not wearing head gear at certain school's.(It was a sign of disrespect and we tried to enlighten the guy but he wouldn't listen cause he was a ex-boxer and didnt need head gear.)

Also of higher level guys do parry alot like traditional Muai Thai keeping the front hand out to intercept shots or knock the other fighters guard around. Albeit most of these guys just try and remain elusive and land precise shots.

Also alot of people would say the best way to block a punch is not to be there and IMO it's true. You play with fire on the inside... there's not a whole lot of ways around that. It's not that you shouldn't learn to fight on the inside, its just overall if your trying to not be hit staying on the outside and avoiding till the time is right is simply the better option.

I think ALL fighters especially standup fighters NEED a guard. Not many fighters can be successful without one. I mean, I can block, hardblock, with my barehands effectively by just using boxing/MT technique, and protect my entire head and face while also being able to see. That is an enormous advantage when one fighter DOESNT use a guard(fists up protecting the face), hence why I can just see them getting boxed up by anybody with boxing or MT or something similar.


Also that guy that wouldnt put on his headgear sounds like a huge a******.
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User Info: Phoenixmon2

Phoenixmon2
6 months ago#64
copenhagenLongC posted...
The video looks sloppy and I cant believe some of those guys got hit. Is that "light contacT" or "medium contact" or w'e? I see the coach jumping in before the other guy is even really beaten. My problem with karate is because of how s***ty its defenses are. Watch the video yourself, they arent even covering themselves, not even their right hand at their chin! And no clips either.


I don't think you took a very good look at what is happening in these exchanges. I don't know these people, so I can't say how good they really are, especially because this kind of sparring is inherently less realistic than a real fight. Even some drills in practice are more realistic.

But analyze those exchanges more closely. Defense might look bad because you're seeing a lot of clashes. When one senses that their opponent has chosen to attack, it's a common response to attempt to beat their attack with your own. It ends up just looking like chaos, but you can't tell from watching a video how fast it's all really happening.

User Info: TrueKu

TrueKu
6 months ago#65
Yes, Shidokan karate is the best karate I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJccFuPxOf4

Then Daido juku:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOCAiHeS-GY


Kyokushin is a scam. You'd be better off with Master Ken.
Chief Scientician

User Info: copenhagenLongC

copenhagenLongC
6 months ago#66
TrueKu posted...
Yes, Shidokan karate is the best karate I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJccFuPxOf4

Then Daido juku:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOCAiHeS-GY


Kyokushin is a scam. You'd be better off with Master Ken.

That second one looks freaking awesome and I wanna join. They let you do armbars on the ground lol! Count me in.

Where do I find this?

Also, that other video was bad...just a fat guy throwing awkward strikes. Also, even tho that vid was sick, I still didnt see much defense lol.
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User Info: TrueKu

TrueKu
6 months ago#67
copenhagenLongC posted...
TrueKu posted...
Yes, Shidokan karate is the best karate I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJccFuPxOf4

Then Daido juku:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOCAiHeS-GY


Kyokushin is a scam. You'd be better off with Master Ken.

That second one looks freaking awesome and I wanna join. They let you do armbars on the ground lol! Count me in.

Where do I find this?

Also, that other video was bad...just a fat guy throwing awkward strikes. Also, even tho that vid was sick, I still didnt see much defense lol.


Same reason why you don't see defense in Kyokushin. The rules make head strikes illegal.
It's like complaining that UFC fighters leave the nut shot wide open all the time. Or asking why doesn't someone just bite the other guy's face off or headbutt while in guard.

This is all fake fighting.
Chief Scientician

User Info: copenhagenLongC

copenhagenLongC
6 months ago#68
TrueKu posted...
copenhagenLongC posted...
TrueKu posted...
Yes, Shidokan karate is the best karate I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJccFuPxOf4

Then Daido juku:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOCAiHeS-GY


Kyokushin is a scam. You'd be better off with Master Ken.

That second one looks freaking awesome and I wanna join. They let you do armbars on the ground lol! Count me in.

Where do I find this?

Also, that other video was bad...just a fat guy throwing awkward strikes. Also, even tho that vid was sick, I still didnt see much defense lol.


Same reason why you don't see defense in Kyokushin. The rules make head strikes illegal.
It's like complaining that UFC fighters leave the nut shot wide open all the time. Or asking why doesn't someone just bite the other guy's face off or headbutt while in guard.

This is all fake fighting.

No not all this is fake fighting.

Ill respond even tho your trolling...


In the second video they were clearly punching each other in the face, I even saw a few knockdowns, but their punches were sloppy but fast, and not a single guy had their hands in guard position at any point, or tried to block or parry incoming strikes. No head movement. They dart in, and dart out, and trade punches.

2nd video is something I'd totally do, but for fun and to compliment my main style of muay thai. 1st video is what people think of karate lol.

karates got some SICK kicks though.

EDIT: @ Pheonix

I understand trying to beat their attack with your own. But they should be using their free hand to cover up, and use the hand their throwing to cover up(hide behind the shoulder of the punching arm). They arent doing that.They look well trained in kicks and footwork for their kicks, but like bar brawlers when theyre punching.
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User Info: darkknight109

darkknight109
6 months ago#69
copenhagenLongC posted...
Their hands should be defending their face, in a position to intercept incoming punches or other strikes

Most of them do. Hell, that's the first thing I teach my students about sparring, before we even get to worrying about footwork and attacking.

copenhagenLongC posted...
We dont let our hands hang at our sides thats a recipe for distaster...and thats exactly what karate guys do.

*sigh*

No, they don't. I'm really getting tired of typing that.

copenhagenLongC posted...
Go to a MT club and you will NOT see that.

Sure I will. 100% guarantee if I keep looking, I will find a s***ty MT school - probably won't even take that long, because muay thai is popular and popular martial arts get tonnes of s***ty schools (karate is no different, BTW - lots and lots of McDojos and belt factories out there).

This is why your argument doesn't hold water - you're assuming that all karate schools (and, evidently by this quote, all muay thai schools) are the same. There's an enormous amount of variance in terms of the type and quality of technique taught, a statement that is true of all martial arts. Assuming that one - or even a hundred - karateka are a representative sample of what you're likely to see across all karate styles and schools is simply ignorant. I wouldn't watch one muay thai fighter and assume I now know how every MT fighter thinks and acts - what if that guy was a really s***ty fighter? What if he came from a garbage school?

copenhagenLongC posted...
They arent displaying proper defense. Theyre just backpedalling to avoid obvious shots and tanking faster shots and charging forward to deliver their own attacks.

Because they're fighting under a different set of rules than you're used to.

It's a ruleset I don't necessarily agree with, but it's fairly common in many martial arts tournaments (not just karate) - point sparring, where the match is stopped after every successful landed technique.

Part of the problem in how you're analysing this is that you're assuming everyone fights like an MMA fighter, which simply isn't true. You would be an idiot to go defence-heavy in point-sparring, because the match would be stopped before you could get a counter-attack off - the winning strategy is an explosive attack and hope you get in before your opponent. Is that realistic? No, but neither is cage fighting, and that's what you seem to be basing your reference around.

A lot of karate is based around street fighting, where there are no rules and no guarantees. For instance, remember earlier when you said you thought kicking with your shin was better than kicking with your foot because it's more powerful? That logic works in the ring, where no one is wearing shoes - on the street? Different story. You try a shin kick against me out there, you're going to get the sole of my boot landing down on your shin and I guarantee - shin conditioning or no - your shin will start to hurt before the bottom of my foot will. By the same token, even if you don't think I can kick hard with my bare feet, you might change your tune if I've got a work boot on when I throw that kick.

On the street, you may not be fighting on a level surface, you may not be fighting just one person, you may not be fighting someone who is unarmed, and you may not get much (or any) warning that you're about to be fighting - that's the sort of environment that karate was based around (which is one of the reasons why point sparring is popular in karate schools - the objective is to quickly neutralize an attacker as fast as you can, not knuckle down and get ready for a nine minute fight).
Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster.
Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror!

User Info: Phoenixmon2

Phoenixmon2
6 months ago#70
copenhagenLongC posted...
I understand trying to beat their attack with your own. But they should be using their free hand to cover up, and use the hand their throwing to cover up(hide behind the shoulder of the punching arm). They arent doing that.They look well trained in kicks and footwork for their kicks, but like bar brawlers when theyre punching.


"Bar brawlers" is exactly what I'd call the guys in that video that you seem to like. There's even less defense there. I can see in my example attempts at defense - not all of them are successful, obviously, because fighting is pretty f***ing hard.

Actually, you know what? I bet you forgot that you can slow down videos on YouTube. I'm watching my video now at half speed and you can see a lot of attempted blocks, some which work. Some don't. But it's interesting to watch. You can see just how quickly things really happen.
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