Questions here

  • Topic Archived
You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
  1. Boards
  2. The Matrix
  3. Questions here

User Info: ScarletShin

ScarletShin
3 years ago#1
Spoilers obviously...

The Matrix: When Neo is revived and defeats Smith, he runs to a phone and gets unplugged, to which, the Nebuchadnezzar use the EMP blast and survive against the attack of the machines. On the next scene, with Neo on the phone, does this happen before or after movies 2 and 3?

Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions: The Architect says that they (the machines) have killed off humanity 6 times already and "are getting better at it." So, is this like Inception where (instead of dream levels), there are multiple Matrix levels?

This kinda stumped me. See, I'm under the assumption that when you watch the first, you're under the impression that this is the first time humanity fights back with "the one". And so you assume that there's the Matrix (duh) and the real world (both explained as normal). Then the Architect comes around and says that this has happened a number of times already and in all cases, the One sacrifices the real world to save Trinity (or whoever his girlfriend is for that "cycle"). He also says they're getting more efficient at invading Zion which tells me, that the real world's Zion has been successfully invaded more than once (possibly 6 times?) with the Zion inhabitants all dying. So my question is, "what happens at this point?"

Is it (a.) all surviving humans are plugged until someone unplugs himself and starts a new cycle? Or (b.) the Matrix as we know it, is actually a second level, that's plugged into another higher level Matrix that everyone knows as the "real world" (thus becoming a "first level" Matrix), that is plugged into an even higher iteration of the real world (I'm gonna stop here, but it could be an even higher level of the Matrix). "A" seems a bit... unlikely, though plausible, but "B" sounds more plausible. It also makes more sense that the Architect can say that they can kill off humanity over and over again because the "real world" that they are fighting in, is actually just another Matrix, thus letting them do as they wish as the higher level can simply re-write stuff. It also explains how Neo can do "magic" in the real world- as I somehow don't wanna involve magic in this movie when a technobabble theory will do.

So... answers? Speculations?
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past.
...wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future.
- QuestionableContent.net

User Info: kou urake

kou urake
3 years ago#2
"The Matrix: When Neo is revived and defeats Smith, he runs to a phone and gets unplugged, to which, the Nebuchadnezzar use the EMP blast and survive against the attack of the machines. On the next scene, with Neo on the phone, does this happen before or after movies 2 and 3?"

I've heard the "after Revolutions" speculation about that scene before, but it makes no sense to me. Neo negotiated peace with the Machines - a peace whereby Zion could continue to free humans from the Matrix, without fear of repercussions from the Machines. Neo would have no reason to taunt the now peaceful Machines with such reckless abandon. That scene certainly takes place at some point after the Neb was repaired, but before the events of Reloaded.



"The Architect says that they (the machines) have killed off humanity 6 times already and "are getting better at it." So, is this like Inception where (instead of dream levels), there are multiple Matrix levels?"

They wiped out Zion five times prior. There is only one Matrix, and only one real world. However, the entire point of Zion is part of the Machines' plan: to gather the Redpill and Freeborn population in a manner whereby they can be exterminated with ease. At which point, the current Systemic Anomaly (The One) will have no choice but to agree to the Architect's proposal to free the next batch of humans and start the process over. The five previous Ones were complicit, with each presenting themselves as saviors to the newly-awakened. They would inevitably die. The next Anomaly would arise in time, and Zion would be exterminated while they were in The Matrix. Archie would explain the situation, and they would choose to continue the cycle. Neo was the first to disobey.
Wait a minute. He wasn't lying! This isn't even a polygraph. Its a seismograph. We've been having an EARTHQUAKE.

User Info: Bedman

Bedman
3 years ago#3
The theory that the scene in the phone booth takes place after 2/3 is based on the timestamp listed on the trace program the Machines run on his call. It shows it taking place way after the bulk of the first film. Can't remember exactly, but it was something like a year or two later. Also very obvious that the Wachowskis had that phone booth and the finale with the Smiths at the exact same intersection. In Revolutions, they very conspicuously show the Smiths exploding from the same top-down perspective as when they showed Neo flying into the sky at the end of the first film. Still up in the air.

As to the instances of the Matrix, they are sequential, not layers. Also, no, the previous Ones did not choose their "Trinity," they chose to save a remnant of humanity and start over. The Architect offered Neo the choice to return to Zion with a few dozen people to repopulate it and start the cycle over. What made the sequels significant is that Neo disobeyed, because he was the first One who was in love with an individual person when faced with that choice. It was revealed at the end of Revolutions that this had been at the Oracle's influence. This was an extremely risky move on her part, because if things had gone wrong, Zion would've been wiped out, the Matrix would've crashed and killed everyone inside, and the Machines would've been wiped out by Smith's viral corruption.

Also, it's been rumored that the Wachowskis had originally meant for Neo to not be the One, and that instead, Skippy McF***stick from Kid's Story was supposed to be The One. Kid would've been a more fitting candidate, having freed himself from the Matrix and having more of a love for all of humanity, instead of just one person.
Bedman: Mattress of the Universe

User Info: ScarletShin

ScarletShin
3 years ago#4
kou urake posted...
I've heard the "after Revolutions" speculation about that scene before, but it makes no sense to me. Neo negotiated peace with the Machines - a peace whereby Zion could continue to free humans from the Matrix, without fear of repercussions from the Machines. Neo would have no reason to taunt the now peaceful Machines with such reckless abandon. That scene certainly takes place at some point after the Neb was repaired, but before the events of Reloaded.


My brother told me this theory years ago, although I forgot the details as to what made this plausible. Well, at least I now remember the theory, thanks.

kou urake posted...
the entire point of Zion is part of the Machines' plan: to gather the Redpill and Freeborn population in a manner whereby they can be exterminated with ease. At which point, the current Systemic Anomaly (The One) will have no choice but to agree to the Architect's proposal to free the next batch of humans and start the process over.


Okay, now it makes sense. At the time it was an interesting theory though.

Which means the machines have predicted that even if they wipe out all the freeborns and kill off the One, someone will be able to unplug himself at some point (like Skippy Kid) and make a ruckus. At least with their current way of doing things, things are more predictable and controlled.
Official Prettiest of the Moon of the DotA2 boards
Warriors of the night, assemble! Raaaawrrr!

User Info: conduit

conduit
3 years ago#5
Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions: The Architect says that they (the machines) have killed off humanity 6 times already and "are getting better at it." So, is this like Inception where (instead of dream levels), there are multiple Matrix levels?

No. Zion is culled because its population gets too big. Then the Architect allows The One to hand pick a number of humans to begin its repopulation. This is a cyclical process.

I'd also like to slightly disagree with kou urake's interpretation of the importance of Zion....

the entire point of Zion is part of the Machines' plan: to gather the Redpill and Freeborn population in a manner whereby they can be exterminated with ease.

The main function of Zion is to be the mechanism by which humans inside the Matrix are offered a choice. "The problem is choice".

The matrix only works because the humans in the Matrix are provided a choice, and Zion provides the means to make that choice. Therefore the existence of Zion is actually essential to the stability and success of the Matrix itself.

The major downside is of course that the population of Zion starts to grow exponentially and Zion becomes too big. As the power of Zion grows they start releasing too many minds from the Matrix and thus have a destabilising effect on the Matrix. This has to be corrected in order to preserve the stability of the Matrix - Zion is culled.

And this also coincides with the emergence of the anomaly - another unintended consequence of the machines giving humans too much choice.
~we are a part of the process, not instigators of its progress~

User Info: JamesOwnzMaz

JamesOwnzMaz
3 years ago#6
How many humans were free to repopulate zion again? 8 male 6 female?

Is that really enough to repopulate a city that large? I mean inbreeding would eventually happen right?

Also did we ever find out how long it is before the machines destroy zion each time? Been a long time since the movies.. but it is something that always bothered me about things like Matrix, Mass Effect...

Each one of those series involve a species being nearly wiped out.. and then repopulating itself to the billions/trillions and evolving in such a short amount of time.. with Matrix a span of only a hundred years or so going on his little speech from the first movie.
I Am The Architect

User Info: xXBarbelithXx

xXBarbelithXx
3 years ago#7
JamesOwnzMaz posted...
How many humans were free to repopulate zion again? 8 male 6 female?

16 female, 7 male

Is that really enough to repopulate a city that large? I mean inbreeding would eventually happen right?

There is actually a question about how damaging inbreeding actually is. Take for example dogs. Constantly inbreed but we don't see anything but minor problems. Regardless I'd think with the higher numbers it wouldn't be an issue.

Also did we ever find out how long it is before the machines destroy zion each time? Been a long time since the movies.. but it is something that always bothered me about things like Matrix, Mass Effect...

We did not. However it was at least three generations as the council has several older members and redpills are freed typically at younger ages. Four if any of them were naturally born.
"This is the work of Dalang. His skill makes us believe that we see a war between two great armies, but there is no war. There is only the Dalang."

User Info: JamesOwnzMaz

JamesOwnzMaz
3 years ago#8
How long are we considering a generation though?

True also guess didn't take into consideration that most of the people are zion were freed from the Matrix right?

Also maybe taking the machines destroying Zion a little more literal.. I mean I guess they only kill the people there and leave all the tech and stuff intact.
I Am The Architect

User Info: conduit

conduit
3 years ago#9
the main clue as to how the long the cycle is is Morpheus' speech in Reloaded when he says "we have fought these machines for one hundred years" or something like that. so I think we're guessing about a hundred years, even though that always seemed too short to me. but thats about 3 or 4 generations as a generation is about 20-30 years. and certainly freeing people from the Matrix helps boosts their population.

as for the technology and stuff, I'm not sure but I seem to remember someone on this board saying that previous Zions could have been in different locations or something. I don't know much about that.
~we are a part of the process, not instigators of its progress~

User Info: Kanus_oq_Seruna

Kanus_oq_Seruna
3 years ago#10
Likely, each One chooses a new location, either to make it hard for hte machines to find, or to hide the truth in hopes that dispair doesn't grip the people. After all, if they know that eventually their grandchildren will be slaughtered, would they really go along with it? The One chooses new people, people who do not know about the previous zion, and builds his own.

As Morpheus put it in the first movie: It was the One that freed the first. To the redpills, the One is simply the first to break free, and the one to free the first redpills. Finding ramnants of an old city might be a good start, though it likely wasn't the past zion, unless the machines attack in different styles.

Not to say the machines couldn't easily rebuild the hole they dug and make it look like it's part of a tunnel system. They've got a lot of time to fix it.
For topical discussions of the Source Mod remake of Half Life: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/683833-black-mesa
  1. Boards
  2. The Matrix
  3. Questions here

Report Message

Terms of Use Violations:

Etiquette Issues:

Notes (optional; required for "Other"):
Add user to Ignore List after reporting

Topic Sticky

You are not allowed to request a sticky.

  • Topic Archived