Multi or Dual Fighter/Thief?

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  3. Multi or Dual Fighter/Thief?

User Info: KazumiAmano

KazumiAmano
3 months ago#1
About to start my third playthrough of this wonderful game. I've had my fill of Kensai/Mage and Berserker, so I'm looking to go where I've never gone in BG2 before, a thief build. I've searched the thief topics on these boards, and while a typical recommendation is to do Kensai/Thief dual classed for backstabbing, I'm not sure if that's exactly what I wanna do. In fact, I'm really not a big fan of dual classing if I can help it, I didn't have a great time with how poop the downtime is.

So far as I understand, a multi fighter/thief will be marginally worse as a fighter than dual fighter/thief's dual class, then from then on the multi fighter/thief will be significantly stronger (besides losing Enrage if you'd use a Berserker, which is a bit of a blow huh?) and eventually get both sets of HLAs. Is that far off from the truth? I'm quite unfamiliar with thief's kit in general since I basically only used it to pick locks in the past.

I'm not sure even sure which ends up stronger, dual with its Berserker/Kensai bonuses, or Fighter/Thief with its eventual higher fighter levels and two sets of HLAs. This isn't really a big deal to me though since by ToB even your NPC party members run a steamroller over every single enemy.
Jan, come back when you're pregnant!
Thief is the only dual that Kensei does better than Berserker.

The better damage bonus and Kai backstabs, as well as circumventing the Kensei's drawback make them better than the other F/T duals.

FYI the Berserker is better offensively in other duals due to the Bracers of Extraordinary Specialization. Use Any Item opens that up for the Kensei.

The problem for the dual is missing out on warrior HLAs but Improved Haste stands in well for greater whirlwind when dual weilding.

Make use of Use Any Item and the Spike Trap HLAs
Without their dreams men would have fallen upon and devoured one another long ago, and yet every dream is an illusion, and every illusion is a lie.

User Info: red255

red255
3 months ago#3
KazumiAmano posted...
I'm not sure even sure which ends up stronger, dual with its Berserker/Kensai bonuses, or Fighter/Thief with its eventual higher fighter levels and two sets of HLAs. This isn't really a big deal to me though since by ToB even your NPC party members run a steamroller over every single enemy.


Dual class is nice if you are going to a caster. because you are basically a full caster, and then you got the fighter HP.

and if you wanted your caster to be a fighter you could cast a spell (tenser's transformation for mage, uh....a couple of holy power ones for cleric can't recall exactly which one is turn me into a fighter spell)

and you'd get all your fighter Thac0 and HP as this cleric or mage.

With a thief, yes you get both sets of HLA, but honestly with Jan I just took spike traps which do what 10d20 damage bypassing all resistances? He got so many level ups and HLA he pretty much solo'd melissan just dumping traps on her.

and yeah with UAI you can equip various stuff like paladin only weapons. can't backstab with them but who cares?
If the next one is called, because of his MO, the underwear bomber, you'll know I'm on to something. Calvin Trillin June 16, 2006.

User Info: KazumiAmano

KazumiAmano
3 months ago#4
I appreciate both of your comments, it's good information and I'm not trying to shun the help, but I'm particularly looking for information specifically on dual (fighter kit) + thief versus going multi fighter/thief, not really which fighter kit to dual. I'm leaning towards multi on the basis of it being better than the dual for most of the game, but that might be presumptuous since I've never even played any thief on my MC.

I know my side comments in my OP steered us off track from that, my apologies!
Jan, come back when you're pregnant!
Multi is easier, but won't get the backstab damage the Kensei dual can pump out.

If you dual at 9, the dual downtime is negligible. One thing to consider is if you have true grandmastery installed from a mod, as it lets dual classes match attacks per round with multis without severe downtime.
Without their dreams men would have fallen upon and devoured one another long ago, and yet every dream is an illusion, and every illusion is a lie.

User Info: red255

red255
3 months ago#6
I was under the impression you had already decided on Multi.

So we have options
Dual Human Beserker
Dual Human Kensai
Multi ...don't have BG2 installed right now but I'm going to assume halfling.

The Dual Beserker has no real weaknesses, and get get grandmastery in a weapon class. which should mostly offset his lack of 20 fighter levels. lost of useful early immunities. beserker is basically everything a straight fighter is +beserk state to go further beyond.

will not get the fighter HLA. will get less HLA since they will kick in when the thief level exceeds the 2.25 million which is after the fighter gets its stuff done.

Kensai. It sort of works, the kensai Ki damage works well with a backstab. Use any item counters the kensai's glaring weaknesses of lack of gloves. but tad weak at the lower levels. and Kensai really is a grower. otherwise same as beserker dual. more drawback per se,

Halfling Fighter/thief dual. you are a halfling so I believe thats going to make you harder to spot/hit being shot and all. you get both trees of HLA.

you get HLA starting at the 2.25 million so you don't have to wait as long. and you get a HLA every level up which will be MORE HLA.

Otherwise you are just a plain fighter and plain thief. and can only get two pips in a weapon skill.

which is a drawback in enhanced edition because they made Grandmastery not pointless.
If the next one is called, because of his MO, the underwear bomber, you'll know I'm on to something. Calvin Trillin June 16, 2006.

User Info: synth_real

synth_real
3 months ago#7
The thing about backstabbing is that it doesn't work on some of the toughest enemies (who are some of the people you'd want to pull such shenanigans on) but there are plenty of dangerous enemies that it does work marvelously on. The kenthief dual is going to be the better backstabber because of the bonus damage and probably the better damage dealer overall (depending on when you dual).

The multi gets more HLAs, and fighter HLAs are good. Hardiness and Resist Magic are good for keeping you alive, Greater Deathblow lets you one-shot plenty of dangerous enemies (Mind Flayers and backstab-immune Beholders included), and Greater Whirlwind is great for Staff of the Ram users
"I'm the straightest guy on this board. I'm so straight that I watch gay porn." - Smarkil

User Info: atakdoug

atakdoug
3 months ago#8
It's hard to compare them because each of these possibilities (Kensai —> thief, berserker —> thief, and fighter/thief) is powerful enough to solo the game easily on maximum difficulty.

I have soloed each of these all the way through the sequel. I don't recall which I preferred, but each is at least reasonably fun. Your understanding of what the multi will be like is reasonably accurate, and I urge you to do it if you're on the fence and those are the options.

You will find that the F/T is plenty strong as a fighter. You may miss the berserker rage immunities; you will not particularly miss kensai damage because you will be doing plenty of damage in various ways, including straight fighting. The lack of grandmastery is not a big deal (though it does matter in terms of number of attacks; at least you'll be wearing the gauntlets of extraordinary specialization for a half attack, something the kensai can't do though the berserker can).

Which build is strongest? As a practical matter, as I said, it doesn't really matter much but in most ways the multi is. He hits hard enough to beat anything in a fight; he has high level thieving including spike traps and maxed assassination and backstab, he has more hitpoints (iirc) and far more HLAs. He can be a halfling or dwarf for better immunities, or a half orc or dwarf for better stats. (I like dwarfs, but they're all fine.) As a solo you will miss the berserker immunity at times but that's about all, and you don't have to worry about downtime (though that's a tiny deal if you dual at 9, and not a big thing at 11, what with how fast a thief can pick up experience). If you play with a party it really doesn't matter because everything's easy but now the F/T has no relevant weakness.

User Info: red255

red255
3 months ago#9
yeah its unfortunate when you cast tenser's from a scroll as a F/T it doesn't last very long. there are significant ways to make yourself absurdly powerful.

as a F/T I'd wear Jan Jansen's adventure wear, defender of Easthaven and use hardiness. same damage reduction a barbarian would see.

just an example of how use any item is powerful
If the next one is called, because of his MO, the underwear bomber, you'll know I'm on to something. Calvin Trillin June 16, 2006.

User Info: atakdoug

atakdoug
3 months ago#10
Really, there are so many approaches to a F/T that it's almost more interesting to think about what wouldn't work.
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