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Tom Perez: Word Salad extraordinaire.

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User Info: Vayu_The_End

Vayu_The_End
5 days ago#41
I'm not missing the point because there is no point.
You can prevent Trump from scraping the ACA while admitting it needs to be changed, but pointing out that Trump's replacement is worse than just repealing it.

Humans don't only have to think in short term. Nor is it acceptable to put the ACA up on a pedestal and pretend it's better than it really is because Trump wants to get rid of it. Is "being honest" such a hard thing to do?

Sanders seems to employ this just fine.
IGN: Nex
FC: 2337-5174-9824
#42
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User Info: Vayu_The_End

Vayu_The_End
5 days ago#43
Goldice posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
You can prevent Trump from scraping the ACA while admitting it needs to be changed, but pointing out that Trump's replacement is worse than just repealing it.


Which requires nuance. Again, tell me how well nuance works for the average American voter?


Relatively well, given how popular Bernie Sanders is.
IGN: Nex
FC: 2337-5174-9824

User Info: Goldice

Goldice
5 days ago#44
Vayu_The_End posted...
Goldice posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
You can prevent Trump from scraping the ACA while admitting it needs to be changed, but pointing out that Trump's replacement is worse than just repealing it.


Which requires nuance. Again, tell me how well nuance works for the average American voter?


Relatively well, given how popular Bernie Sanders is.


So popular he lost a primary to Hillary Clinton by 3 million votes.

Anyways so you're saying the dems should say that the aca needs to be changed while pointing out it's better than trumps. Hmm. Something like saying that the ACA should be expanded and we have more work to do?

You're upset because the head of the DNC didn't piss over the last Dem presidents major healthcare reform.
New England Patriots: Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLIX, LI Champions

User Info: Sojy

Sojy
5 days ago#45
Goldice posted...
if they attack the ACA, then trump gets a playing chip to replacing the ACA with his own thing.

Not really as everyone who isn't already supporting Trump's repeal/replace knows that the problem with the ACA is that it doesn't cover enough and forces costs on individuals, while Trump wants it to cover less and still force costs on individuals (unless they just choose not to be covered).

User Info: Goldice

Goldice
5 days ago#46
Sojy posted...
Goldice posted...
if they attack the ACA, then trump gets a playing chip to replacing the ACA with his own thing.

Not really as everyone who isn't already supporting Trump's repeal/replace knows that the problem with the ACA is that it doesn't cover enough and forces costs on individuals, while Trump wants it to cover less and still force costs on individuals (unless they just choose not to be covered).


You give "Everyone" a hell of a lot more credit than i.

I agree that the dems need to move left on healthcare. I just think that right now, it's not politically strategic to basically do republicans work for them.

What does attacking the ACA gain dems right now? They can't influence healthcare. Republicans aren't working with them. The only thing they can do is block. And blocking while knocking the ACA is not good messaging.

It's much politically smarter for Sanders to deliver that messaging while the DNC head talks well about the ACA. Of course, the key in 3 years is showing you're willing to make that leftward shift.
New England Patriots: Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLIX, LI Champions

User Info: PraetorXyn

PraetorXyn
5 days ago#47
Goldice posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
Goldice posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
You can prevent Trump from scraping the ACA while admitting it needs to be changed, but pointing out that Trump's replacement is worse than just repealing it.


Which requires nuance. Again, tell me how well nuance works for the average American voter?


Relatively well, given how popular Bernie Sanders is.


So popular he lost a primary to Hillary Clinton by 3 million votes.

Anyways so you're saying the dems should say that the aca needs to be changed while pointing out it's better than trumps. Hmm. Something like saying that the ACA should be expanded and we have more work to do?

You're upset because the head of the DNC didn't piss over the last Dem presidents major healthcare reform.

The ACA was doomed to failure the moment insurance companies were involved, as they will continually jack up the rates like the always do and remove the "affordable" part. They can also do things like threaten to pull out of exchanges if you don't approve a mega merger. It deserves to be pissed on, and never should have been passed in the first place as it makes good reform more difficult.
Console war in a nutshell:
http://imgur.com/xA6GJZ9.png

User Info: Goldice

Goldice
5 days ago#48
PraetorXyn posted...
It deserves to be pissed on, and never should have been passed in the first place as it makes good reform more difficult.


It also got a lot of people who didn't have insurance to get insurance. Republicans have begrudged that it got people to look at healthcare differently. It's why they're having such a hard time repealing. They can't just go back to the old way. They believe that'll lose them votes. They need to actually fix it.

It was phenomenal from a "foot in the door" strategy to improve our system and hell, if we end up with single payer, largely necessary to begin changing people's ideas. Even if the legislation itself is largely problematic.
New England Patriots: Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLIX, LI Champions

User Info: AceRabbit

AceRabbit
5 days ago#49
PraetorXyn posted...
Goldice posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
Goldice posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
You can prevent Trump from scraping the ACA while admitting it needs to be changed, but pointing out that Trump's replacement is worse than just repealing it.


Which requires nuance. Again, tell me how well nuance works for the average American voter?


Relatively well, given how popular Bernie Sanders is.


So popular he lost a primary to Hillary Clinton by 3 million votes.

Anyways so you're saying the dems should say that the aca needs to be changed while pointing out it's better than trumps. Hmm. Something like saying that the ACA should be expanded and we have more work to do?

You're upset because the head of the DNC didn't piss over the last Dem presidents major healthcare reform.

The ACA was doomed to failure the moment insurance companies were involved, as they will continually jack up the rates like the always do and remove the "affordable" part. They can also do things like threaten to pull out of exchanges if you don't approve a mega merger. It deserves to be pissed on, and never should have been passed in the first place as it makes good reform more difficult.


@PraetorXyn

Stop lying about the ACA for starters. There's nothing 'doomed' about private companies involved when even a number of universall healthcare systems have them.

Your purity tests make things way more difficult than they have to be.
Over the mountain.

User Info: PraetorXyn

PraetorXyn
5 days ago#50
Goldice posted...
PraetorXyn posted...
It deserves to be pissed on, and never should have been passed in the first place as it makes good reform more difficult.


It also got a lot of people who didn't have insurance to get insurance. Republicans have begrudged that it got people to look at healthcare differently. It's why they're having such a hard time repealing. They can't just go back to the old way. They believe that'll lose them votes. They need to actually fix it.

It was phenomenal from a "foot in the door" strategy to improve our system and hell, if we end up with single payer, largely necessary to begin changing people's ideas. Even if the legislation itself is largely problematic.

I think the opposite as its turned huge swathes of the country against government run healthcare because it is awful in practice. To fix things the Democrats need a super majority with no Blue Dogs like Machin et al to f*** things up like last time, which isn't going to happen when they're too afraid to say that what they actually want to do is replace the ACA for Single Payer. Talking about expanding the ACA is a band-aid on the problem and people won't be enthused by it.
Console war in a nutshell:
http://imgur.com/xA6GJZ9.png
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