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12 year old tortured to cure his homosexuality

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User Info: kts123

kts123
6 years ago#71
Alright, so it would make sense to say that a perversion of the phrase "survival of the fittest" was used to justify the holocaust, not that Charles Darwin is personally responsible for it. Just as TC didn't say that Jesus was personally responsible for this situation.

The TC says:

How do you defend a belief system when it spawns this? Even if it's a perversion of the belief system...it still causes it.


Darwin is to evolution as Christ is to Christianity. People who accept evolution and teach it are as people who accept Christianity and teach it. Both have a founder (Darwin, Jesus) both have people who perpetuate the beliefs of the founder (Zoologists, Christians) and both systems have been perverted (in the holocaust, in torturing gays.) If you want to question how Christians can follow Christianity when it can be perverted to support torturing gays, then you must ask how zoologists can follow evolution when it can be perverted to support torturing Jews.

I think it's worth saying, if you don't like scientific naturalism because it supports existential and moral nihilism, that doesn't change a thing. You can not like something all you want, if it's true then it's true. The universe has a nack for not giving a flip what we want to be true. The question is, do you believe something is true because it is true, or because you like it and want it to be true? Ultimately, the TC's point is nothing more than an appeal to emotion.
the final bahamut 6 years ago#72
Darwin is to evolution as Christ is to Christianity.


Really? I didn't know that Christians thought Christ was wrong on lots of issues. I thought they thought he was bang on the money.


People who accept evolution and teach it are as people who accept Christianity and teach it.

Really? Christianity has a massive body of proof? I didn't know this.

Both have a founder (Darwin, Jesus)

So, Jesus is held to be one of the many people who gave rise to Christianity? I thought he was usually held as the one and only source of Christianity, also God. Gee, learning so much today.

both have people who perpetuate the beliefs of the founder (Zoologists, Christians)

Really? I had no idea most people who accept evolution thought earthworms were teh awesome and that you should always give ridiculously specific numbers. Nor did I know they usually think society was a bit of a burden and wanted to stay locked up and avoid face-to-face interaction with strangers. Because those are some of the things Darwin thought.

and both systems have been perverted (in the holocaust, in torturing gays.)

Except to use them in those contexts, you have to very much NOT understand pretty much everything about evolution. Hell, just look at the phrase that fueled this: "Survival of the fittest". It's a bastardization of the concept of evolution, at least it is in the way that pretty much everyone ever actually uses it.

If you want to question how Christians can follow Christianity when it can be perverted to support torturing gays, then you must ask how zoologists can follow evolution when it can be perverted to support torturing Jews.

Except they don't. Most zoologists do not "follow" evolution and quite a few actually work to counteract natural selection. What they do is acknowledge that evolution does in fact happen and work in a world where it happens. And hell, we all know what terrors eugenics has raised, which is why we're all very quick to criticize any suggestion that smells like eugenics and are extremely very of anything that is eugen...ical even when it might be a good idea. This is because we've learned from the terrors that certain beliefs have led to.

The comparison is fail on so many different levels.
E ys Bahamut! oui risyhc puna sa! Oui uvvaht sa cahcac!!!
DISCLAIMER: I'm not accountable for this post. I don't know English I just hit keys at random.

User Info: Heineken14

Heineken14
6 years ago#73

From: El_Rez78 | #206
The Son of Sam said labrodor retrievers told him to kill. It may be a perversion of labrodor retrievers, but they still caused it.

Now if youre a rational thinking person, you would say "labrodors didnt really tell him to kill, hes just crazy", and thats the whole point. The bible didnt tell this man to torture, the guy is just crazy.

And, there are people who have turned their life around after converting to christianity and actually following it.


How do you know? Labrador Retrievers work in mysterious ways.
Do you have anything flashier? I want something that says "I own this room. I own you."

User Info: Heineken14

Heineken14
6 years ago#74

From: kts123 | #351
Darwin is to evolution as Christ is to Christianity. People who accept evolution and teach it are as people who accept Christianity and teach it. Both have a founder (Darwin, Jesus) both have people who perpetuate the beliefs of the founder (Zoologists, Christians) and both systems have been perverted (in the holocaust, in torturing gays.) If you want to question how Christians can follow Christianity when it can be perverted to support torturing gays, then you must ask how zoologists can follow evolution when it can be perverted to support torturing Jews.


This literally made me pee my pants from laughing so hard.*


*not literally.
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.

User Info: kts123

kts123
6 years ago#75
El_Rez's point was that the perversion of a belief does not reflect the belief or those who perpetuate it, by showing concepts in zoology have also been perverted to support the holocaust. Fudrick then threw up a red herring by saying "no one is blaming Jesus for what happened." Which is wholly and entirely not the point El_Rez was trying to address. What I said was not an analogy, it's the exact line of reasoning used by the TC applied to a different belief.

"How do you defend a belief system [evolution] when it spawns this [the holocaust]? Even if it's a perversion of the belief system [evolution]...it still causes it [the holocaust]."

Also I think I see a slight misunderstanding with my other post. When I'm putting together Darwin and Jesus, zoologists and Christians, evolution and Christianity, it's because Fudrick contested what El_Rez said by bringing up Darwin and Jesus. El_Rez was focused on the people who perpetuate the beliefs (evolution, Christianity) not the people who are responsible for the beliefs.

Fudrick, not me, put Darwin and Jesus together for comparison:

"Alright, so it would make sense to say that a perversion of the phrase "survival of the fittest" was used to justify the holocaust, not that Charles Darwin is personally responsible for it. Just as TC didn't say that Jesus was personally responsible for this situation." - Fudrick.

See, El_Rez isn't referring to founders, he's referring to people who perpetuate the belief and what the beliefs have been used to justify. Fudrick made a red herring when he tried to toss things off to be about Darwin and Jesus. It's also pretty similar to a straw man.

And of course, seeing as how Jesus created Darwin, there are definitely some glaring differences between the two.

User Info: gamesrgreat

gamesrgreat
6 years ago#76
The Son of Sam said labrodor retrievers changed his life and told him to be a good person.

Now if youre a rational thinking person, you would say "labrodors didnt really change his life, he just did it himself" and thats the whole point. The Bible didn't change this guys life, he did.

And, there are people who have turned their life around after not converting to Christianity/ converting to Islam, Buddhism, etc.
The Miami Heat

User Info: TheRealJiraiya

TheRealJiraiya
6 years ago#77
Comparing Christianity to evolution and Jesus' place in the former to Darwin's place in the latter is ridiculous.
"An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup." -H.L. Mencken

User Info: kts123

kts123
6 years ago#78
Comparing Christianity to evolution and Jesus' place in the former to Darwin's place in the latter is ridiculous.

Evolution and Christianity are both beliefs. They're strikingly different, but both are still beliefs. As for comparing Darwin and Jesus, Fudrick decided to bring that up, I only continued his own line of reasoning to show the issues with it.

User Info: TheRealJiraiya

TheRealJiraiya
6 years ago#79
kts123 posted...
Comparing Christianity to evolution and Jesus' place in the former to Darwin's place in the latter is ridiculous.

Evolution and Christianity are both beliefs. They're strikingly different, but both are still beliefs. As for comparing Darwin and Jesus, Fudrick decided to bring that up, I only continued his own line of reasoning to show the issues with it.


Evolution is a scientific theory, Christianity is a religious belief system. The way a person comes to believe in the former is radically different from the way one comes to believe in the latter. I havent read enough of this thread to know the context, but aside from both being something that people believe in, they really arent comparable in any way.
"An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup." -H.L. Mencken

User Info: Heineken14

Heineken14
6 years ago#80

From: kts123 | #358
Evolution and Christianity are both beliefs.


No, they are not.
Do you have anything flashier? I want something that says "I own this room. I own you."
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