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So atheists what's the most compelling thing youve heard in favor of a religion

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  3. So atheists what's the most compelling thing youve heard in favor of a religion

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 months ago#11
Moorish_Idol posted...
I don't find personal experiences, like what your sister said, to be compelling nor do I give much thought to them at all. It's a shame so many religious folk depend on them; even most holy books depend on them.


I'm in such a weird place about this right now. Other people's personal experiences aren't compelling to me, third-hand reports of such even less so. On the flip side, my own personal experiences are about the most compelling thing I can think of.

Lots of personal experiences can be explained in different ways, so not every experience leads to a clear answer about anything, but that what I experience is real and actually happened is damn near axiomatic for me. I'm having trouble looking at it any other way. You might be able to talk me into the notion that what I saw wasn't what I think it was, but you can't talk me into the notion that I didn't see it.

So, for that reason I don't find it to be a shame that religious folks depend on them, I depend on them too for practically everything I know in some way or other. Though I am with you on the holy books relying on them, that's third-hand again, and not very useful. But I also don't know that we should expect folks not to write down what they know via their own experiences.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: keybladesrus

keybladesrus
4 months ago#12
I find this question odd. If I found any of the arguments compelling, would I even still be an atheist? I am an atheist, so I obviously didn't find any of them compelling. Not when I was losing my faith, and not now that my faith is totally gone. So I can't really say what the "most" compelling argument is in favor of religion.
The Most Astounding Fact - Neil deGrasse Tyson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D05ej8u-gU

User Info: LinkFanatic

LinkFanatic
4 months ago#13
Nothing. They're literally all equally terrible. That's why I'm an atheist. >_>
The first 2 forms of Cell flaunted his tail, like he's Ron Jeremy. But after he absorbed 18 his tail retracted and only seemed useful for reproducing. -Byron808

User Info: Ashenshugur

Ashenshugur
4 months ago#14
The most compelling evidence for religion, from my perspective, is consistency.
Congratulation. This story is happy end. Thank you.

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 months ago#15
keybladesrus posted...
I find this question odd. If I found any of the arguments compelling, would I even still be an atheist?


Read it as "The argument that comes closest to being compelling."
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: str8Knowledge

str8Knowledge
4 months ago#16
Buddhism is not even theistic.

User Info: Fatestaykitchen

Fatestaykitchen
4 months ago#17
You can find something compelling without it totally wink you over. I've been grilled about word choices before. Maybe a more accurate term would have been "challenging" "thought provoking" "most convincing" I don't know. Sorry. I'm a bad communicator.


Damn though. I really only got one. Jesus. Like this s*** has to work on some people right?

Moorish_Idol posted...
The various cosmological arguments are probably the main reason I'm not an atheist today. Not the only reason, but they are what pushed me into this direction.



Can you lay out a few of those? Not going to grill you on them, hand to God. I just want to know
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I8IVn0MQsWA
Just a reminder that we live in a world where "twerk assault" can be said unironically

User Info: Fatestaykitchen

Fatestaykitchen
4 months ago#18
kozlo100 posted...
Fatestaykitchen posted...
Back into the Christianity of her youth with the flawless logic that "when I pray good stuff happens and if that doesn't work for others like child sex slaves and people with cancer that's their problem "(exact quote) needless to say I was bored and a bit dissapaoinfed that was all it took but it did intrigue me s bit since ive never really seen anyone "relapse" like that.


I find your reaction kind of interesting. By the numbers she's conducted a repeated experiment there. She prays, and good stuff happens. She knows that first hand, by direct perception. She only knows that other folks pray and bad stuff happens via second or third hand sources. What is she supposed to do with that information, if not use it to inform her opinion on whether or not any gods exist?

I mean, if praying to a particular god is getting useful results for her, then at the very least it's pragmatic of her to keep doing it.


I feel like I shouldn't just leave this unaddressed even though it's so boring I didn't even argue with her about it. I'm not even really going to into my main problems with it since the problems are legion. I'll say she knows first hand that this "prayer works" bulls*** is bulls***. At least she should. Lots of things that shouldn't have happened in our lives but did anyway despite having the whole church praying along with "us"

Thats when we get to the utterly meaningless, useless, unfalsifiable, intellectually and ethically lazy claim of "prayer works!.....uh sometimes....uh maybe....in some cases....except when it doesn't....in that case that's good too! Gods will and s***....actually i just pretty much accept anything everything that happens and stick to this belief literally no matter what, so.....yeah....LOOK AT WHAT GOD CAN DO FOR YOU...every once in awhile....when he feels like it."

She seems to be selectively choosing what qualifies as good due to emotional needs right now plus she's one of those" fashion statement Christians" at best so it's harmless. Not as bad as it could be.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I8IVn0MQsWA
Just a reminder that we live in a world where "twerk assault" can be said unironically

User Info: keybladesrus

keybladesrus
4 months ago#19
kozlo100 posted...
keybladesrus posted...
I find this question odd. If I found any of the arguments compelling, would I even still be an atheist?


Read it as "The argument that comes closest to being compelling."

Then I've got nothing. I guess the closest thing would be some philosophical arguments, but I don't do philosophy. I deal in testable, verifiable evidence. If it can be proven with empirical evidence, then I'll believe it. And trust me, I treat scientific hypotheses the same way. I've seen plenty of theories (using this term in the common sense, not like "scientific theory") that seem likely or possible, but until it has the evidence to back it up, I remain skeptical, and it remains just something interesting to think about.

I enjoy watching debates between theists and atheists, but I never find the theist side compelling at all. Instead, they most often have me rolling my eyes, burying my face so deep in my palm it's practically at my elbow, or angry in the cases of con men like Kent Hovind who purposely ignore or twist facts to further an agenda (in Hovind's case, that agenda being money). Or the argument is purely philosophical or unfalsifiable, and therefore irrelevant to me.
The Most Astounding Fact - Neil deGrasse Tyson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D05ej8u-gU

User Info: Moorish_Idol

Moorish_Idol
4 months ago#20
Fatestaykitchen posted...
Can you lay out a few of those? Not going to grill you on them, hand to God. I just want to know

That's a big subject and it'll likely derail the topic into a debate. You said you wouldn't grill me but I know the rest of the board... :P

I'll link to a site for now, if that's okay. (The reason I'm not responding to you with my own words is because I've been in and out of the hospital the past couple months and have become a rather impatient ol' biddy lately.)

This site I think gives a very succinct and fair description of the Kalam cosmological:
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/theistic-proofs/the-cosmological-argument/the-kalam-cosmological-argument/

And of the modal cosmological:
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/theistic-proofs/the-cosmological-argument/the-argument-from-contingency/

I will say that I do not argue for the Kalam variant. I only argue for the modal variant. The reason I've included a link to the Kalam is because 1) it was my first exposure, which is relevant to the OP, and 2) knowing the Kalam helps us see the differences with the modal much better.

They are not airtight arguments, but I believe they are close to it, and much closer than any other argument for a Creator imo.

If you have any questions regarding what's said in the links I'll do my best to answer them. I'll probably ignore anyone else who responds though because of the above-mentioned biddyitis.
Not everything has to be about something.
Camofrog, Caroline, Chadder, Diana, Ketchup, Lyman, Olivia, Ruby, Shari
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