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So atheists what's the most compelling thing youve heard in favor of a religion

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User Info: Fatestaykitchen

Fatestaykitchen
4 months ago#21
Thanks and actually, you're probably right about the derailing and such so good call.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I8IVn0MQsWA
Just a reminder that we live in a world where "twerk assault" can be said unironically

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 months ago#22
Fatestaykitchen posted...
I'll say she knows first hand that this "prayer works" bulls*** is bulls***. At least she should. Lots of things that shouldn't have happened in our lives but did anyway despite having the whole church praying along with "us"


I don't know your sister, so I don't know what's actually going on with her.

I'm just saying that if somebody says they know prayer works, I don't feel like you or I have the authority, nor really the requisite knowledge, to tell them that's bulls***. It seems to me that the best we can do is tell them that prayer doesn't work for us.

I mean, if you know the person intimately, you might be able to make some educated guesses about their mental processes, and of course you can run experiments with them if they're up for that sort of thing, but that's not really what I was getting at.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: Fatestaykitchen

Fatestaykitchen
4 months ago#23
Fatestaykitchen posted...
I'll say she knows first hand that this "prayer works" bulls*** is bulls***. At least she should. Lots of things that shouldn't have happened in our lives but did anyway despite having the whole church praying along with "us"


I don't know your sister, so I don't know what's actually going on with her.

I'm just saying that if somebody says they know prayer works, I don't feel like you or I have the authority, nor really the requisite knowledge, to tell them that's bulls***. It seems to me that the best we can do is tell them that prayer doesn't work for us.

I mean, if you know the person intimately, you might be able to make some educated guesses about their mental processes, and of course you can run experiments with them if they're up for that sort of thing, but that's not really what I was getting at.


Needless to say, I do and I do.


I can make educated observations about facts and reality . Mental processes have nothing to do with this one way or another. youre basically arguing for solipsism or solipsistic hand waving in one particular case and I haven't heard anything that makes such a thing seem credible or rather....useful.

You're right that I can't tell anyone what to think or dictate how they interpret data but I can damn sure tell Yiu when you're wrong and if your claims and beliefs don't map onto reality, you're delusional and/or possibly dishonest. (General you here not you specifically)

You can believe what we you want in the privacy of your mind. When you want to start making claims about the nature of reality your private thoughts frankly don't matter if you want to be taken seriously at least.

Also you really don't want to get into prayer and experimentation . And nether do I. I was specifically addressing the issue with my sister and that's as far as I'm taking it.


On a side note she HAS demonstrated a strong affinity for solipsism subjective reality and such. So this.....actually makes a lot of sense now that I think about it. Actually this conversation was useful just for helping me connect the dots here. Thanks.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I8IVn0MQsWA
Just a reminder that we live in a world where "twerk assault" can be said unironically

User Info: dhalsimrocks

dhalsimrocks
4 months ago#24
kozlo100 posted...

I'm just saying that if somebody says they know prayer works, I don't feel like you or I have the authority, nor really the requisite knowledge, to tell them that's bulls***. It seems to me that the best we can do is tell them that prayer doesn't work for us.

I think what's important, however, is that we can also say that as convincing as it is for them, it can't be convincing for us because of our background knowledge of personal experiences.
May all your disgraces be private

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 months ago#25
Fatestaykitchen posted...
I can make educated observations about facts and reality . Mental processes have nothing to do with this one way or another. youre basically arguing for solipsism or solipsistic hand waving in one particular case and I haven't heard anything that makes such a thing seem credible or rather....useful.


I'm not being at all solipsistic with it, I'm trying to get at the notion that not all evidence is sharable, and because of that what seems delusional to one person can be totally rational and valid to another. The set of knowledge you consider to be valid and justifiable isn't universal. Other people have different sets that are just as valid and just as justifiable.

I could run you through a hypothetical where it's rational for me to believe in a tiny fire breathing dragon that can teleport, and yet be completely unable to offer you any compelling reason why you should believe it too. When someone tells me prayer works, a lot of the time I don't have any real grounds to be able to tell if they're bulls***ting, or if they have their own tiny dragon situation.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 months ago#26
dhalsimrocks posted...
I think what's important, however, is that we can also say that as convincing as it is for them, it can't be convincing for us because of our background knowledge of personal experiences.


Yes, exactly. I sometimes forget to emphasise that side of the coin, but it is absolutely a part of the deal.

There are these whole sets of experiences that are rightly compelling to just one person, and useless for convincing anyone else. It's just that when we're the 'someone else' we should be careful to remember that the fact that we are not convinced doesn't mean that one person shouldn't have been compelled. Disagreement in these cases doesn't indicate flawed thinking on either side.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: Fatestaykitchen

Fatestaykitchen
4 months ago#27
Well we're derailing the purpose of the topic and it's my fault for engaging. Even though it was never my intention to argue something so boring, I should have known that it wouldn't just end with me correcting you about my sisters circumstances.

So that's entirely my bad
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I8IVn0MQsWA
Just a reminder that we live in a world where "twerk assault" can be said unironically

User Info: Dyinglegacy

Dyinglegacy
4 months ago#28
In my mind, vastness leaves room for possibility. I could be wrong, obviously.

I find it in the realm of possibility that there may be a god, somewhere out there, but whether or not this being is interested in us is another question.
PSN: KillingLegacy Gamertag: Killing Legacy

User Info: Fatestaykitchen

Fatestaykitchen
4 months ago#29
Dyinglegacy posted...
In my mind, vastness leaves room for possibility. I could be wrong, obviously.

I find it in the realm of possibility that there may be a god, somewhere out there, but whether or not this being is interested in us is another question.


I think you'd have to be stupid to not at least be here mentally. That's not really what the topic is about though. In fact this kind of thing is exactly not what the topic is about.


I'm just re stating this here to stop further confusion.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I8IVn0MQsWA
Just a reminder that we live in a world where "twerk assault" can be said unironically

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 months ago#30
So I think most of the atheists around have checked in by this point.

So, topic over, or is it ok with you if we move on to talking about other things?
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.
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