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I don't understand how people think their religion is the correct religion.

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  3. I don't understand how people think their religion is the correct religion.

User Info: Stuflames

Stuflames
4 months ago#11
OrangeWizard posted...
Stuflames posted...

Okay, the implied question is: how do the followers of a specific religion justify thinking they got the facts right, that they are the correct ones?


The same way everyone else comes to the conclusion that they are right and others are wrong, the evidence convinces them, and their arguments come out on top.


But how can you make or assign truth to a statement about reality, how the universe is and operates and is guided, based on evidence that is only evidence of faith?

I mean, religion is a statement about reality. It shouldn't be about how you *wish* reality is, that's being disingenuous and just... just wishful thinking. Being religious, following a religion, is a statement that you found the most correct interpretation of the universe unseen, the most correct insight into the mind of God (or gods or...), where you like it or don't like it, because it's simply Truth.

How does one come to the conclusion that they've found the right faith? How do they explain away others coming to equally or more fervently the conclusion that another faith is the right faith?
PSN: GolemSix

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
4 months ago#12
Stuflames posted...

But how can you make or assign truth to a statement about reality, how the universe is and operates and is guided, based on evidence that is only evidence of faith?


"Evidence that is only evidence of faith?" I don't understand what you mean.


I mean, religion is a statement about reality. It shouldn't be about how you *wish* reality is, that's being disingenuous and just... just wishful thinking.


I don't recall ever saying anything about what one "wishes" reality to be.


How does one come to the conclusion that they've found the right faith? How do they explain away others coming to equally or more fervently the conclusion that another faith is the right faith?


Like I've said: "The same way everyone else comes to the conclusion that they are right and others are wrong, the evidence convinces them, and their arguments come out on top."

I think we might not be understanding each other here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCevfumG9WSyr165n84HfwRQ

User Info: Stuflames

Stuflames
4 months ago#13
I don't recall ever saying anything about what one "wishes" reality to be.


You didn't. But I guess that's where my mind goes.

So you're saying that you and others, looking logically at the world, see... physical (?) evidence that a specific doctrine is the true faith above other explanations, faiths, and doctrines, and the most likely true explanation of available evidence? And that other equally fervent believers (or aetheists or nonbelievers) aren't seeing the correct evidence or interpreting it correctly?

I, too, am struggling with your words. What you mean by being 'convinced by evidence' in this spiritual context.
PSN: GolemSix

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
4 months ago#14
Stuflames posted...

You didn't. But I guess that's where my mind goes.

So you're saying that you and others, looking logically at the world, see... physical (?) evidence that a specific doctrine is the true faith above other explanations, faiths, and doctrines, and the most like true explanation of available evidence? And that other equally fervent believers (or aetheists or nonbelievers) aren't seeing the correct evidence or interpreting it correctly?


Yes, but the evidence isn't necessarily physical. Just as in court, there are many different kinds of evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCevfumG9WSyr165n84HfwRQ

User Info: Stuflames

Stuflames
4 months ago#15
But what nonphysical evidence can there possibly be that can't be brought into serious question (the kind that would prevent one from embracing their explanation as a definitive truth) by weighing other testimonies, the nonphysical evidence that likewise has led others to their 'true faith', or explanations outside the doctrine of a single faith or interpretation?
PSN: GolemSix

User Info: SockThief

SockThief
4 months ago#16
Are you an atheist, TC?
I steal your sock.

User Info: Stuflames

Stuflames
4 months ago#17
I don't have the level of commitment/conviction towards there being no greater power to consider myself a true atheist, so no you won't be able to trap me by saying Orange Wizard's argument applies to my current beliefs or convictions.
PSN: GolemSix

User Info: Magyar15

Magyar15
4 months ago#18
Stuflames posted...
I don't recall ever saying anything about what one "wishes" reality to be.


You didn't. But I guess that's where my mind goes.

So you're saying that you and others, looking logically at the world, see... physical (?) evidence that a specific doctrine is the true faith above other explanations, faiths, and doctrines, and the most likely true explanation of available evidence? And that other equally fervent believers (or aetheists or nonbelievers) aren't seeing the correct evidence or interpreting it correctly?

I, too, am struggling with your words. What you mean by being 'convinced by evidence' in this spiritual context.


There's also physical manuscripts of the writings that have been passed down. Enough evidence and historical criticism to convince me that they are relatively unchanged since their current form. And also enough evidence from the way things played out that the people who originally provided the info for these documents were convinced that they were speaking the truth
A good man would prefer to be defeated than to defeat injustice by evil means - Sallust

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
4 months ago#19
Stuflames posted...
But what nonphysical evidence can there possibly be that can't be brought into serious question (the kind that would prevent one from embracing their explanation as a definitive truth) by weighing other testimonies, the nonphysical evidence that likewise has led others to their 'true faith', or explanations outside the doctrine of a single faith or interpretation?


Why is it important that the evidence "can't be brought into serious question"? All that matters is that it convinces, or helps to convince, the individual of the conclusion. That's the definition of "evidence" that I'm using here.

But examples of this could be things they've perceived through their own senses. They prayed to God and then felt as if their prayer was answered. They saw what they believed to be an angel or something.

There are also persuasive arguments which I'm counting among the non-physical, but can be based off of physical things, such as the bible, and what Magyar said.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCevfumG9WSyr165n84HfwRQ
DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC 4 months ago#20
"Well I mean, 'life is sacred'? Who said so, God? Hey, if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death! Has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, all taking turns killing each other 'cause God told 'em it was a good idea. The sword of God, the blood of the Lamb, 'vengeance is mine'. Millions of dead motherf***ers. Millions of dead motherf***ers, all because they gave the wrong answer to 'the God question'. You believe in God? No. *boof* Dead! You believe in God? Yes. ...You believe in MY God? No. *boof* Dead! My God has a bigger dick than YOUR God!" -- George Carlin
"Shut your filthy whore mouth."- AB
"But if I shut my filthy whore mouth, I can't use it to be a filthy whore. Does not compute." - TashaMK
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