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The Pope doesn't like people choosing their own gender.

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User Info: LinkFanatic

LinkFanatic
4 months ago#1
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/08/03/pope-francis-its-terrible-children-taught-they-can-choose-gender/

Thoughts?
The first 2 forms of Cell flaunted his tail, like he's Ron Jeremy. But after he absorbed 18 his tail retracted and only seemed useful for reproducing. -Byron808

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 months ago#2
Unsurprising, to say the least. As comparatively progressive as he is, he's still an old Catholic.

I mean, just reading his own quote, in mild contradiction to your title, he names the issue as gender but says children are taught that they can choose their own sex. He's clearly not fully educated on the matter.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: Ashethan

Ashethan
4 months ago#3
He can speak on it when the Vatican starts turning in pedophiles instead of 'transfering them to places they're less likely to get caught'.
Growing up, I wish some teacher told me "You probably won't ever need this, but if you don't learn it, you might miss out on something really cool."

User Info: Moorish_Idol

Moorish_Idol
4 months ago#4
Outside of the reasons given for his claim ("because Bible"), I don't take much issue with his stance. The idea that children, or anyone really, can choose their sex or gender is ridiculous.

You either are born with the gender associated with your sex, or you're not and are later diagnosed as such by a team of professionals. The modern idea that people can self-diagnose gender issues is harming the cause altogether and they really need to stop.

Now if he's against professional diagnosis too, then that's where an actual problem would lie.
Not everything has to be about something.
Camofrog, Caroline, Chadder, Diana, Ketchup, Lyman, Olivia, Ruby, Shari
#5
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User Info: CoyoteTheGreat

CoyoteTheGreat
4 months ago#6
LinkFanatic posted...
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/08/03/pope-francis-its-terrible-children-taught-they-can-choose-gender/

Thoughts?


People don't "choose" their own gender, but that is how the argument is often framed, so of course when presented that argument as a Catholic, he isn't going to be for it.

By its very nature, the Vatican is never going to be on the cutting edge of human sexuality studies. It is an issue where it is difficult to see how any Pope can ever really evolve on.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata.. http://www.yescalifornia.org/

User Info: CoyoteTheGreat

CoyoteTheGreat
4 months ago#7
Moorish_Idol posted...

You either are born with the gender associated with your sex, or you're not and are later diagnosed as such by a team of professionals. The modern idea that people can self-diagnose gender issues is harming the cause altogether and they really need to stop.


I don't think any psychiatric or psychological problem can ever really begin to be solved without a self-diagnosis that there is some kind of problem to start with. No team of experts, no matter how educated they are, can ever know what it is like to be another person, as it is a philosophical impossibility. They have to rely on the information they are given, and they don't get the same physical clues that a doctor would have in diagnosing an illness.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata.. http://www.yescalifornia.org/

User Info: Moorish_Idol

Moorish_Idol
4 months ago#8
CoyoteTheGreat posted...
Moorish_Idol posted...

You either are born with the gender associated with your sex, or you're not and are later diagnosed as such by a team of professionals. The modern idea that people can self-diagnose gender issues is harming the cause altogether and they really need to stop.


I don't think any psychiatric or psychological problem can ever really begin to be solved without a self-diagnosis that there is some kind of problem to start with. No team of experts, no matter how educated they are, can ever know what it is like to be another person, as it is a philosophical impossibility. They have to rely on the information they are given, and they don't get the same physical clues that a doctor would have in diagnosing an illness.

What I meant by self-diagnose is the people who do so then stop there and consider it "official". Or the people who hop from psychologist to psychologist until they find one that will diagnose them with what they want.

I agree that we need to be aware of a problem before we can seek help of course; but that is quite different from diagnosing yourself with an established disorder.

It's the reason some true trans folk have begun to refer to these people as "trendsgender".
Not everything has to be about something.
Camofrog, Caroline, Chadder, Diana, Ketchup, Lyman, Olivia, Ruby, Shari

User Info: Storm Shadow

Storm Shadow
4 months ago#9
Well, the Jesuits have never been keen on "choice" in any form, so this is pretty much par for the course.
"What did I ever do to deserve this as my fate? Other than all the sinning." http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1005-warhammer-40k

User Info: CoyoteTheGreat

CoyoteTheGreat
4 months ago#10
Moorish_Idol posted...
CoyoteTheGreat posted...
Moorish_Idol posted...

You either are born with the gender associated with your sex, or you're not and are later diagnosed as such by a team of professionals. The modern idea that people can self-diagnose gender issues is harming the cause altogether and they really need to stop.


I don't think any psychiatric or psychological problem can ever really begin to be solved without a self-diagnosis that there is some kind of problem to start with. No team of experts, no matter how educated they are, can ever know what it is like to be another person, as it is a philosophical impossibility. They have to rely on the information they are given, and they don't get the same physical clues that a doctor would have in diagnosing an illness.

What I meant by self-diagnose is the people who do so then stop there and consider it "official". Or the people who hop from psychologist to psychologist until they find one that will diagnose them with what they want.

I agree that we need to be aware of a problem before we can seek help of course; but that is quite different from diagnosing yourself with an established disorder.

It's the reason some true trans folk have begun to refer to these people as "trendsgender".


I'm certain there are people like that. But so what? Maybe there are edge cases where people are in some sense "choosing" there own gender, but to me, that is indicative of a different gender identity neuro-atypicality where they aren't particularly tethered to a specific gender identity and therefore "choose" based on aesthetic preferences or some other quality rather than naturally settle into an identity. I think it is a huge leap though to say this is somehow destructive or bad in any way though, so much as that it is difficult and uncomfortable for some people to consider and presents challenges to "traditional" theories of gender.

Psychologists and psychiatrists are not well-equipped to handle edge cases. Their field is constantly pushing cases from the edges and into the mainstream. It wasn't very long ago that homosexuality was a dangerous mental disorder that necessitated torture to correct. Certainly the study of human sexuality and gender identity has not become a settled matter just because we've come a long way on certain issues, and certainly the DSM is going to undergo plenty of revisions in the future.

The bottom line is that no one is really in a position to authoritatively tell people what a "real true trans" person is, and it just isn't a productive enterprise. Maybe some people do choose their gender identity, and maybe some people do choose incorrectly, but those are choices they have to make, they aren't choices that psychologists or psychiatrists are equipped to choose for them. For some of them, there may not be any correct answer even and gender confusion may be their lot in life.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata.. http://www.yescalifornia.org/
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