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Do friends/family of a religion keep you from being critical of said religion?

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  3. Do friends/family of a religion keep you from being critical of said religion?

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
2 months ago#31
SSj4Wingzero posted...
99 times out of 100, there's no good reason in your typical interpersonal communications to bother bringing up things you don't like about somebody's religion or any aspect of their culture, to be honest. It does nothing of value. Ironically, it seems to be a new-age "White Man's Burden" type of thing to want to go around and "educate" people about how they should act or think, and it's almost always counter-productive.


Just to sort of emphasize this point, I have at several times had actual missionaries, on their actual missions, sat down at my table eating my food, invited in for the express purpose of having a conversation about religion, and even those guys never said anything that seemed like something I'd feel comfortable using as an opening to be critical about their religion.

It's not impossible that they would have, and if they had said something I felt like responding to in a critical way, I would have. It just didn't happen though. It was all "Can I share this verse?" and "Do you mind if we pray?" The rest was normal smalltalk.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: DigitalFury_

DigitalFury_
2 months ago#32
ManLink4321 posted...
DigitalFury_ posted...
ManLink4321 posted...
DigitalFury_ posted...
In general, I'm not critical of religion. I'm interested in the history, the lore, the people (of the time) and the geography so I've read the bible and I read other religious texts but I don't believe in God, Heaven, Hell or Satan. My best friend is newly reborn (as of a couple years ago) and our conversations about his beliefs, his religions and my lack of belief are nothing more than that -- conversations. I don't criticize his faith because out of mutual respect for my own beliefs he isn't trying to convert me. We have sincere, blunt discussions on religion, the scriptures and the meaning of individual passages frequently.

There are no hurt feelings because the intent is never anything more than discussion


So, you are yet another person who is also ignorant of God, Heaven, Hell, and Satan.

Nope, not ignorant, I know the story and have read the books so I have knowledge on the subject. I just don't believe it. We are all lucky enough to be able to make such choices in this life


Which books have you even read, though? It seems as though you have a beginner's knowledge of the subjects involved, and that you want to brag about being a novice in the subjects for discussion in this topic, and also, on this entire board. Sry.

mm-hmm, please educate me more with your well informed insight
Currently Playing: Stories of Bethem: Full Moon and Blue Dragon
Currently Reading: The Quran and and Tao Te Ching

User Info: Moorish_Idol

Moorish_Idol
2 months ago#33
Just for the record @DigitalFury_ like 90% of the board has ManLink on ignore, so just warning you before you put too much effort into a debate that it's probably not worth the time.
Not everything has to be about something.
Camofrog, Caroline, Chadder, Diana, Ketchup, Lyman, Olivia, Ruby, Shari

User Info: darkmaian23

darkmaian23
2 months ago#34
Moorish_Idol posted...
Just for the record @DigitalFury_ like 90% of the board has ManLink on ignore, so just warning you before you put too much effort into a debate that it's probably not worth the time.

I was just about to say the same thing. It's kind of distracting to see his posts revealed when you quote him.

User Info: SSj4Wingzero

SSj4Wingzero
2 months ago#35
LinkFanatic posted...
Anyway, my point was less about whether we should or shouldn't do it, and more about the fact that knowledge itself doesn't depend on how receptive you are to it. I don't think this would apply to very many actual real-life situations, though. It seems like we don't actually disagree on the main point, though.


Even then it's not

There are things that might be true, but that doesn't mean that they need to be said. Being right is overrated.

omnichaos posted...
Speak for yourself. I want to know if I'm wrong about something.


No you don't. You only say such a thing because you think you're right and you're assuming that *if* you were wrong, you'd want to know about it. But you obviously wouldn't want to be told otherwise.

Maverick3000 posted...
No, because being critical =/= being always negative or anti-religion. I bring up topics on critical to my families religious views, but I don't paint or present them in a negative way but present it as "Here is some cool research on the Bible!"


It usually does though. Let's be honest, whenever people say "Islam should be criticized" or "Religion should not be immune to criticism", that person is *usually* an ass and will follow up by saying something incredibly controversial that simply doesn't need to be heard. Someone like Sam Harris. And while I'll defend Sam Harris's right to speak to people in certain forums where people actually want to hear about what he has to say, if anybody ever showed up a family gathering spewing rhetoric like his, it'd make everybody uncomfortable.

kozlo100 posted...
Just to sort of emphasize this point, I have at several times had actual missionaries, on their actual missions, sat down at my table eating my food, invited in for the express purpose of having a conversation about religion, and even those guys never said anything that seemed like something I'd feel comfortable using as an opening to be critical about their religion.

It's not impossible that they would have, and if they had said something I felt like responding to in a critical way, I would have. It just didn't happen though. It was all "Can I share this verse?" and "Do you mind if we pray?" The rest was normal smalltalk.


Yeah. I, as a Christian living in New York, am certainly in the minority, and I can pretty safely say that I've never ever felt the need or desire to say anything "critical" about another person's beliefs. Even amongst my close friends, I don't say anything critical, because it's obviously not a nice thing to do especially when the overwhelming odds are that no matter WHO you are, you don't know *nearly* enough about the other person's faith or cultural background to make such a comment about what they believe.
Not changing this sig until the Knicks win the NBA Championship! Started...4/23/2011? Or was it 2010?

User Info: Kenji_Kotaro

Kenji_Kotaro
2 months ago#36
I don't really like to discuss religion and usually hold my tongue if I disagree with a friend on something related to religion. Most of my family is pretty much nonreligious (officially, everyone but my Mother and I were Catholic - I converted to Taoism over a decade ago and my Mother was more or less an atheist near the end of her life). Friends are another story but it really only came up regularly with only a few of them. I just held my tongue and tried to be respectful of their beliefs, I thought it was better to be respectful...

...But I've had people in my life as "friends" who did the exact opposite and I sort of wish I didn't hold my tongue whenever they started to make fun of the fact I was of a different faith and basically bring up religion with the intent of trying to annoy or insult me. Basically, I feel that in retrospect my silence on the issue was less a way of telling them "I'm going to take the high ground here and not insult your faith like you are doing to mine" and more saying "Hey, I'm not complaining! Say whatever you want about how I'm a Godless heathen who will burn for all eternity alongside his false idols!"

At the very least, I wish I had told these people that if they were an example of their faith then I felt there was no chance I'd ever consider converting.

Other than that the only time it's ever really come up was while I was in the hospital and some nurses\staff asked if I'd mind if they prayed for me which I had no problem with at all: I saw it as them sincerely wanting me to get better and I was sincere in thanking them for the prayers.

However, when I was out of the hospital I was at an in-patient physical therapy center for about a month and they allowed patients who were strong enough to leave the hospital for "field trips," let's call them that. One was to the local farmer's market and I encountered two church groups...One just did the same as the others, asked if they'd mind if they prayed for my recovery and I was thankful that they did. Another person, however, was handing out pamphlets for her church...And, well, I wasn't my best at dodging the topic of saying I didn't follow their faith and it...got interesting.

It went more or less like this, to help set the scene I was in a wheelchair and I couldn't walk away or come up with some sort of "sorry, I'm in a hurry" excuse.

Woman: "Hi, I'm handing out pamphlets for [local church], do you want to join us this Sunday?"

Me: "Oh, um, no thanks. I don't live around here, I live [city that's a good ways away - And really was where I lived]."

Woman: "What church do you go to?"

Me: "Uh, I have...a personal shrine at home."

Woman: (Obviously weirded out) "...Personal...shrine?" (I swear, she looked like she was expecting me to say "it's where I sacrifice my goats" or something - She really looked and sounded awkward over the idea I had "a shrine" at home)

Me: "I practice Taoism, I worship Guan Gong - A Chinese God of loyalty and Zhuge Liang, a historical figure synonymous with wisdom and..." (Cue awkward and rambling explanation of my faith)

She...got really weirded out and I got so nervous I was sort of rambling (it didn't help I was also kinda medicated at the time - I just had a full hip replacement a few weeks earlier, they had me on some really powerful stuff), in the end she just sternly told me to read the bible and start going to church every Sunday...I felt bad in the sense I was worried I somehow offended her so I just kinda gave a noncommittal "sure" and wheeled off. When it comes to strangers I think it's better to avoid confrontation altogether.
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User Info: omnichaos

omnichaos
2 months ago#37
SSj4Wingzero posted...


omnichaos posted...
Speak for yourself. I want to know if I'm wrong about something.


No you don't. You only say such a thing because you think you're right and you're assuming that *if* you were wrong, you'd want to know about it. But you obviously wouldn't want to be told otherwise.



Don't project your own mentality on to me or presume you can read my mind. I've changed my mind about many things when presented with good arguments. Just because you don't doesn't mean other people don't.

User Info: ManLink4321

ManLink4321
2 months ago#38
Moorish_Idol posted...
Just for the record @DigitalFury_ like 90% of the board has ManLink on ignore, so just warning you before you put too much effort into a debate that it's probably not worth the time.


lol @ you trying to discourage people from talking to me by putting me on ignore. I am pretty sure that telling people to put a person on their ignore list is against the ToU. gg
The Hero of Hyrule.

User Info: ManLink4321

ManLink4321
2 months ago#39
darkmaian23 posted...
Moorish_Idol posted...
Just for the record @DigitalFury_ like 90% of the board has ManLink on ignore, so just warning you before you put too much effort into a debate that it's probably not worth the time.

I was just about to say the same thing. It's kind of distracting to see his posts revealed when you quote him.


I know you were going to say that because you have nothing original to say on anything you've ever discussed. You're a follower, a gullible fool.
The Hero of Hyrule.

User Info: Dathrowed1

Dathrowed1
2 months ago#40
omnichaos posted...
SSj4Wingzero posted...


omnichaos posted...
Speak for yourself. I want to know if I'm wrong about something.


No you don't. You only say such a thing because you think you're right and you're assuming that *if* you were wrong, you'd want to know about it. But you obviously wouldn't want to be told otherwise.



Don't project your own mentality on to me or presume you can read my mind. I've changed my mind about many things when presented with good arguments. Just because you don't doesn't mean other people don't.

You do realize this defensiveness is what he's talking about right?
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