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Do friends/family of a religion keep you from being critical of said religion?

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  3. Do friends/family of a religion keep you from being critical of said religion?

User Info: omnichaos

omnichaos
4 months ago#41
Oh my god, the irony.

User Info: omnichaos

omnichaos
4 months ago#42
Conversation and argument are the only tools we have to change people's minds. It's either that, or violence. I'll take conversation. Yes, it doesn't always work, and when it does, it takes time. And 99% of the time someone isn't going to tell you that you've changed their mind. But this anti-social attitude is what leads to violence. If you're convinced that you are unconvincing, then perhaps you are one of those stubborn people who is in the wrong.

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 months ago#43
SSj4Wingzero posted...
Yeah. I, as a Christian living in New York, am certainly in the minority, and I can pretty safely say that I've never ever felt the need or desire to say anything "critical" about another person's beliefs. Even amongst my close friends, I don't say anything critical, because it's obviously not a nice thing to do especially when the overwhelming odds are that no matter WHO you are, you don't know *nearly* enough about the other person's faith or cultural background to make such a comment about what they believe.


There is all of that, that I totally agree with. This situation was a little bit of a different situation though.

I mean, these folks were in my home for the express purpose of convincing me their religion was the correct one. The first time this happened, I was not going to be rude to guests at my table, but also I was prepared to hold my ground and I was not going to pull any punches. It's just that no punches got thrown on either side.

And if the opportunity to be politely and reasonably critical didn't arise there, where does it? The only places I can think are forums like this where we make it part of our raison d'etre, or in political discourse where religious beliefs are used as motive for shaping secular policy.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: DigitalFury_

DigitalFury_
4 months ago#44
Thanks @Moorish_Idol and @darkmaian23 in new to the board but the troll vibe is definitely strong with that one.
Currently Playing: Stories of Bethem: Full Moon and Blue Dragon
Currently Reading: The Quran and and Tao Te Ching

User Info: SSj4Wingzero

SSj4Wingzero
4 months ago#45
Dathrowed1 posted...
You do realize this defensiveness is what he's talking about right?


That and anybody who says "they like to be told they're wrong" is full of nonsense, because there's obviously somebody out there who thinks you're wrong that you'd rather not hear from. Pat Robertson tells people they're wrong all the time, and you never know, he *could* be right on what he's saying, but does that change the fact that nobody wants to hear from him? Absolutely not. People don't want to hear from him because HE'S A JACKASS

kozlo100 posted...
There is all of that, that I totally agree with. This situation was a little bit of a different situation though.

I mean, these folks were in my home for the express purpose of convincing me their religion was the correct one. The first time this happened, I was not going to be rude to guests at my table, but also I was prepared to hold my ground and I was not going to pull any punches. It's just that no punches got thrown on either side.

And if the opportunity to be politely and reasonably critical didn't arise there, where does it? The only places I can think are forums like this where we make it part of our raison d'etre, or in political discourse where religious beliefs are used as motive for shaping secular policy.


Yeah pretty much. I can agree that I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever actually had to stand up and actually *be critical* of another person's faith, and all of those times involved someone who was actively looking for an argument - like when somebody says something like, "How can you even stand going to church when we all know that what they say there is nonsense anyway?" Things like that. But that doesn't happen to me regularly, and if it did, I'd make sure to never willingly associate myself with that person ever again. That said, those types of folks seem to be awfully rare, even around here.
Not changing this sig until the Knicks win the NBA Championship! Started...4/23/2011? Or was it 2010?

User Info: omnichaos

omnichaos
4 months ago#46
I didn't say that I like to be wrong (some people do seem to actually like this though) or told that I'm wrong by someone I don't like (of course that experience sucks.) But I do want to know if I'm wrong about something so I can correct it. Even if it does come from a total a******, that total a****** could be right about something I'm wrong about. If you refuse to even consider an argument because of the source, you are part of the problem. If you don't care about what is true, then you don't belong in this arena.

User Info: SSj4Wingzero

SSj4Wingzero
4 months ago#47
So you're telling me you *like* it when crazy street preachers tell you that you're going to hell?

Please.
Not changing this sig until the Knicks win the NBA Championship! Started...4/23/2011? Or was it 2010?

User Info: Lord_Ichmael

Lord_Ichmael
4 months ago#48
I like to be corrected in general because I want to know when I'm doing something wrong (assuming other people felt the same way got me in trouble more than once). Unfortunately I don't expect a stranger to be able to change my mind on religion anymore.

User Info: omnichaos

omnichaos
4 months ago#49
SSj4Wingzero posted...
So you're telling me you *like* it when crazy street preachers tell you that you're going to hell?

Please.


If that happened, I would laugh my ass off. But if they wanted to have a conversation (which you damn well know is what I'm talking about), yes. But the likelihood that they are going to provide evidence for their claims and prove me wrong is pretty low. And if somehow they did have good evidence, I would very much like to hear it. Maybe you should accept that we are different people with different types of personalities and thought processes instead of projecting your own personality onto me.

User Info: Maverick3000

Maverick3000
4 months ago#50
SSj4Wingzero posted...


It usually does though. Let's be honest, whenever people say "Islam should be criticized" or "Religion should not be immune to criticism", that person is *usually* an ass and will follow up by saying something incredibly controversial that simply doesn't need to be heard. Someone like Sam Harris. And while I'll defend Sam Harris's right to speak to people in certain forums where people actually want to hear about what he has to say, if anybody ever showed up a family gathering spewing rhetoric like his, it'd make everybody uncomfortable.


Oh, I agree. One of the things I have to constantly hammer on my writing students is that being critical does not mean you should be only negative or take a position of attack, as everyone seems to think being critical means you have to be in opposition. Focusing the negative is not a critical stance, its just being polemic.

Which is also why I never say "look at Bible criticism" because my family assumes its just anti-Bible stuff and just say "Biblical scholarship."
we're not all geniuses like you Maverick. >_> - AWrulez
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