Does the legendary system need a change? Is it too late? Does it matter?

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  3. Does the legendary system need a change? Is it too late? Does it matter?

User Info: SilentZed

SilentZed
3 months ago#1
Now - it's been stated multiple times that encounters are not created around the assumption that people have legendaries and they are a bonus.

So, from an encounter being overcome standpoint, this is supposed to be a non-issue. Naturally, more legendaries can potentially make encounters easier/increase the margin for error depending on the encounter, but there shouldn't be any encounters that "require" legendaries.

But - a lot of people enjoy the competitive angle of the game, i.e. pet battling, pvp, competing against each other for performance of PvE encounters (least damage taken, most damage done, most healing done, most dispels, most interrupts, etc.) and it's been voiced that many people actively hate the legendary system, how RNG it is, and that feeling behind the curve in terms of performance because of luck feels pretty crappy.

Does it truly matter? Does the opinion of these people who do not have the good legendaries truly matter in the long run? Should they have change the legendary system? Is it too late to do so?

What are your opinions on the matter? If there is another way they could have done it, like a currency and purchase system, what are the pros and cons to that system over the one currently in place?
"My drg has a fever, and the only cure is more piercer credit." - benjjjamin

User Info: Pokeymuns

Pokeymuns
3 months ago#2
It's a bad system. It would only work adequately in a sterile single-player-only game. Due to high ilevel, every legendary is at least decent (barring rings with heavy investment in the worst secondary stat(s) for your spec, and a bad legendary property)... but some are extremely good and when a party/raid member has the 2 BiS versus your two gimmicky trash pieces, due to pure RNG, one might feel just a hint of resentment.

Unfortunately it's too late to change it drastically. Perhaps next expansion.



An easy fix without changing the system too much would be to allow the player the option to decline receiving a legendary item. The declined legendary would not appear again until all other legendaries were attained, or you spoke to an NPC to clear your entire decline-list (can't clear the list selectively, it's either all or nothing).
In the case of declining your first or second legendary, this would allow you to maintain your higher dropchance and try fish for a desirable one. And in all cases, it would also allow you to retain your built-up bad luck protection.

This system can also undergo some adjustments, particularly with regard to how many times you can decline in a row -- it could be unlimited, or it could be something low like 2 or 3 times, it all depends how much RNG avoidance you want the system to have. Even a mere 1 decline would be worlds improved over the current "you take what RNGeesus gives you and deal with it" system, due to relinquished tokens existing (unless you actually want one of the new batch that can't spawn from them).

There can also be a BLP change for the act of declining -- you forfeit an undesirable legendary item, and have slightly better odds on getting a desired one next time, one could say this is worth a reduction in your stocked up bad luck protection (and it's still a gain over getting a "useless" legendary and having ALL your BLP drained). Or you could be generous and say that in return for forfeiting, you have slightly better chances for your next legendary since it is still random sans whatever's already on your decline-list.

There would still be people who were misinformed or playing blind, and take junk legendaries as their first two, but for the most part one could combine this system with strategic use of relinquished tokens to accurately target legendaries.




Edit:
Regarding a straight up purchase option with some grindable currency, it would be good from a pure raid perspective but then you'd have to design encounters around everyone having the optimal legendaries... because everyone would. People would theorycraft that s*** up and everyone serious enough to want to optimize their character would buy the 2 BiS ones first.

However, given how many times they've nerfed legendaries in the past year (and/or abilities modified by legendaries, changing an item's desirability), a purchase system (or even the decline system above) would open the door for salt about "I tried sewwwwper hard to get my legendary and now it's nerfed". It feels a bit worse than when, in the current system, your BiS legendary gets the nerf bat because you put in extra effort / deliberately allocated a hard-to-obtain resource / whatever, compared to just getting lucky.

User Info: myztikrice

myztikrice
3 months ago#3
Yes

No

Yes

That said it will not change.
"Why are you always smiling?"
"'Cause it's all so f***in' hysterical."

User Info: MrXGamer

MrXGamer
3 months ago#4
From what I have read, the one legendary being introduced in Argus is simply obtained by killing the last raid boss. That's what they should have done from the beginning. Each final raid boss to give a legendary of your choice. Or another simple solution, keep the drop from any activity like it currently is, but let it be a legendary "token" to spend at a vendor for a legendary item of your choice. But yes, it's too late now to make any drastic changes.

The RNG is what kills the current system and having so many legendaries can mean possibly months of wait before you get your BiS. My main got its BiS legendary as the very last legendary drop and that happened to quite a few of my guildies as well. Next expansion, they just need to give us some control over what legendary we want.
Now Playing (and for the next 50 years): Path of Exile!
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User Info: d209999

d209999
3 months ago#5
For a system that has throughput legendaries, the drop rate of said legendaries needs to be higher than it is now. If Blizz wants to keep RNGendaries for next xpac, I think they'll probably just make utility legendaries.

SilentZed posted...
But - a lot of people enjoy the competitive angle of the game, i.e. pet battling, pvp, competing against each other for performance of PvE encounters (least damage taken, most damage done, most healing done, most dispels, most interrupts, etc.) and it's been voiced that many people actively hate the legendary system, how RNG it is, and that feeling behind the curve in terms of performance because of luck feels pretty crappy.


I don't buy this at all. If you don't have every legendary you need by now, you are casual. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you. But you've had a year. Plenty of time to work within the current system to get what you need. It was a legit issue for Emerald Nightmare. It's not an issue anymore.
"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." - Theodore Roosevelt

User Info: redundancies

redundancies
3 months ago#6
The easiest solution is to make all legendaries "utility" legendaries...that way people won't get all pissy when they get the "wrong" one as it will be the same DPS increase as the next guy's (in fact there won't be a "wrong" one)

Or just go back to the quest system and have a single legendary item per class/spec. It's boring, but it keeps RNG out of the equation.

User Info: Pokeymuns

Pokeymuns
3 months ago#7
Utility legendaries don't really feel legendary though.
I'd rather they all be performance increasing legendaries but they should increase your DPS by the same amount, in different ways.

They can do something like they did with "class auras" to tweak relative performance on the fly such that no matter which legendary you have, its contribution to your DPS is the same.

You only have to consider factors such as:
How each legendary changes your rotation / move priority
Which tier piece the legendary replaces, if any
Whether you need to adjust your talents to complement your legendaries


But since they can't even get three talents in a row to have roughly the same impact, I'm not holding my breath for them getting 10+ legendaries per spec balanced evenly.



I don't really wanna go back to the quest-based legendary system funnily enough. It just becomes a mandatory background thing that way, nothing special about it at all. Plus it'll probably be jewelry again and have no special appearance.

User Info: myztikrice

myztikrice
3 months ago#8
Dude what do you think they're doing? There's no way for all of them to increase DPS the same amount while doing different things. Things that are a DPS increase in one scenario are not as big a DPS increase in another scenario. The utility legendaries feel legendary to me, some more than the DPS legendaries
"Why are you always smiling?"
"'Cause it's all so f***in' hysterical."

User Info: Pokeymuns

Pokeymuns
3 months ago#9
And I'm saying that despite them working differently, they need to be altered so that they have a comparable benefit in multiple situations (either by adding a secondary effect, or modifying the effect so that it affects ST/AoE/Cleave equally well).

Using damage-dealing as an example, don't boost only the AoE ability that has a horrible efficiency on single targets, as that makes the legendary useless for ST but good for AoE.
Instead, boost the resource gain which can then be spent on AoE -or- ST.
This is part of why Pyrogenics (10% more fire dmg to enemies affected by Rain of Fire) is meh and Feretory is still excellent in both ST and AoE after being nerfed twice (6% to generate a shard when casting a damaging fire spell, down from 10%, down from 15%).

You can address this somewhat by giving Pyrogenics some ST benefit. For example, on top of the current effect, give it the ability to extend the duration of Rain of Fire for each tick that only strikes a single foe. Thus you can add a RoF into your ST rotation and see a DPS gain from the constant damage increase, though you need to spend shards to reapply it if the boss moves. The numbers need tweaking of course.

If a DPS legendary has too niche of a performance boosting effect, it needs a secondary effect so that it contributes something to, at minimum, both ST and AoE damage. For healing it would be throughput and mana sustain. For tanks I guess mitigation and... threat really isn't an issue now so uh, mobility?

The differences between the legendaries come from how they interact with different ability-sets for each spec/class.
Within destruction spec alone:
One might affect Immolate only, to the extent that both your ST benefits, along with your AoE if you take Cataclysm to apply mass-Immolate.
One might affect FnB Incinerate by adding a damage bonus which dynamically ramps down the more targets FnB hits, to keep its damage contribution in-line between ST and AoE.
One might allow Conflagrate to explode in a small area, splitting some bonus damage between targets hit. Concentrated oomph against one target, or some extra splash damage against adds.


Edit:
As a side note, I should mention that this is different from how Blizzard wants you to use legendaries.
They want you to be switching them (and by extension, grinding for the full set so that you HAVE the options to switch between, as well as grinding for the replacement pieces to wear due to the 2-legendary limit).
I'm in favor of a system where any two legendaries would offer the same overall DPS benefit -- but they would change your playstyle.

User Info: Heftybags

Heftybags
3 months ago#10
Each final raid boss to give a legendary of your choice.

That would be great, you pick your BiS legendary then next weeks hotfixes make it your worst and you wasted your legendary till next raid.

The tokens aren't a bad idea but everyone would have the exact same items that's not necessarily good or bad. I would prefer it being random as opposed to a token.
I watch Cops with no pants on.
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