So, stumbled upon this game, only thing that bothers me... *spoilers*

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  3. So, stumbled upon this game, only thing that bothers me... *spoilers*

User Info: OmniImmortal

OmniImmortal
4 years ago#1
Is that, only on the True Kana ending does she actually survive, if you ask me logic would dictate that if it works at one point in a timeline, it should work at any other timeline when around a similar point I think anyways, and just found it weird that with how much Taka loves Kana in all endings, most of em he doesn't think to help out with a transplant, and the one that he does magically fails because of not having the right attachment. I dunno, I would think organ acceptance has nothing to do with what is actually thought/known of the donor lol.

Also, **** this game. **** this game because I still cry whenever I think of the overall story. I have never cried so much for a game when not even playing it, it's just too damn depressing. I'm not sure if I'd call myself emotionally weak or extraordinarily sympathetic/empathetic? , but in general depressing endings mess the **** out of me, perhaps due to own personal experiences with crappy life experiences involving many family deaths, I dunno, and as much as I try to I just keep on stumbling upon games/anime that are too depressing for me to take but I end up playing through/watching em anyway, I dunno kinda seem to just attract em weirdly. Heck I'm still crying as I'm trying to type this, why did this game have to be so sad, it was so sad for me that I cried at half the sex scenes. I could barely maintain any form of arousal because of the beauty/overlying sadness behind the scenes, and with the endings I may just have to pretend like there's a hidden 7th ending where both Cana+Kana can live, Yumi isn't hurt by Taka, etc. Heck I thought it'd be nice if they gave more of an epilogue to ending 1 to at least see Kana get back together with Taka in the future after seperating+making her own spot in life outside of the Todo family.

Must admit, it's partly due to me just getting things without actually looking into anything about them, and having a sort of OCD part of me that won't let me not finish anything I get completely (every ending+scene, etc.). Curse that part of my brain. It's kinda weird tho, mostly been going back in time when it comes to visual novels I think sort of, don't particularly get em for the H-Content, just happens that I have quite a few like from Zyx that are basically sex romps lol.

Could probably go on but I think that's about all I have to say bout it atm, will probably add thoughts in the future. Brb buying more tissue boxes.

User Info: Shoot the Works

Shoot the Works
4 years ago#2
Regarding the transplant happening (or not): We've talked about that here before; the reason the transplant isn't an option in the Intellectual endings is because that branch is essentially the other side of the coin to the "normal Kana" routes. Where normal Kana strives to live, intellectual Kana accepts the inevitability (and "naturalness") of death. Having the transplant in the intellectual routes would kill a lot of what is built up in preparing for Kana's death, and the way she handles it with a certain grace and dignity. The focus of the normal routes (both in the endings and choices you make leading up to them) is in getting Kana to live, so it's natural for the transplant to occur.

Regarding the success of the transplant: It can fail even with HLA mismatch 0. Everything else you did matters just as much. Yep.

As for a big "everyone's happy" ending, it can't happen due to how the story is laid out. To quote myself from another topic:

Yuta can't be happy (at least at the time of the story's close), but that's because he wanted something that wasn't meant to be kept (Robert Frost said it best with Nothing Gold Can Stay). He saw Kana as something to be put on a pedestal; she needed to be protected from the harsh realities of the world because she wasn't experienced with everything that lay beyond her little bubble. What he never stopped to consider was that Kana could not retain the essence of purity he saw in her and also adapt to the real world. Essentially, he would have smothered her in his efforts to keep her pure. Taka called him out on this (rightly so, even if his own motives weren't completely pure) when you refuse Yuta's request to date Kana.

I don't like to say it this way, but Yuta wasn't really deserving of Kana because he never paused to consider that she might actually be more than the fragile little flower everyone saw her as. And she was, as is pretty heavily evidenced by the little scene you get following Kana seeing Yumi kiss Taka. This little flower has thorns, though she seldom shows them.

Yumi can't be happy as long as Kana lives because Taka gave his heart to her (Kana) long ago. The phrase "over my dead body", while in poor taste, is a pretty accurate description of the conditions for Yumi's happiness.


Something to keep in mind is that Yumi's and Kana's happiness are mutually exclusive for the purpose of the story. If Taka and Yumi never had that misunderstanding, he would never have spent all that time with Kana as a kid. He was the only thing really keeping her going (remember, she wasn't supposed to live to graduate from elementary school), so if he never had that fight with Yumi, he wouldn't have had a reason to spend time with Kana, and we know where that would've led.

Cana isn't necessarily going to die even if Kana survives, live liver transplants being what they are. There is the minor problem of Kana not meeting Cana in The First Farewell, but you shouldn't prep a coffin for the kid so quickly.

User Info: NeutralDrow

NeutralDrow
4 years ago#3
Branching visual novels stories can often be object demonstrations of chaos theory (see also: the Nasuverse). The transplant was still an odds-against proposition, so I could understand why it doesn't work in some routes. In fact, I didn't believe it worked in The First Farewell at first, either. I was expecting an Out of the Maze twist where the game kicked me firmly in the balls, only for the contact to be...far less forceful, to not descend into crudity. And as I recall, storywise, Taka isn't the one to think of a transplant in the first place; he's simply in the right place to learn about it during the Normal route. Their parents and the doctors always think of it, but given that Kana has no known surviving blood relatives, they didn't think about checking or informing Taka.

Also, we totally understand. It's been three years, and I'm still at the point where hearing "For You" play has a 50-50 chance of invoking tears (and the music box version has closer to 80-20 odds). Hell, Kana is one of only two characters I've spontaneously cried over long after the fact. Call it sympathy, call it empathy, call it trauma even, but whatever it is, it's caring, and there's no weakness in caring.

I was kind of grateful for at least one of the sex scenes, in a way. I don't see quite as much of a dichotomy between Kana's quality of life versus her intellectual development between the routes, and the last scene with the ocean and the H-scene afterwards (yes, I always pick that scene) were a lot of the reason. I'm not a total stranger to lacking arousal due to tragic twists in a story, but for that moment, I felt lucky, since it was the last moment for me to feel something other than sorrow.

...the ones with Yumi, though, were mostly uncomfortable. The endings reversed a little bit of my discomfort, but I was never able to entirely trust Yumi after she basically date-rapes Taka, and since that was also after I was forced to notice the elephant in the room regarding Kana's mortality...
"Oh man, we're in trouble!"
"Come now. The worst that can happen is we all die."

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
4 years ago#4
Hey, Omni - welcome to the KLS board. =)

if you ask me logic would dictate that if it works at one point in a timeline, it should work at any other timeline when around a similar point

I would think organ acceptance has nothing to do with what is actually thought/known of the donor


Well, really, the factors influencing the success of Kana's transplant have nothing to do with real-world logic. It's dramatic license.

In Endings 2 and 3 (and presumably 4-6), the assumption is that the transplant would never have worked (or at least that it would have had very long odds of succeeding) because Taka and Kana have an HLA mismatch of one. Their organs are not as compatible as they could be.

However, after you earn Ending 1 by making all of the choices that the writer wanted you to make (reject Yumi and Yuta all the time; don't give Kana things that will make her anything other than a girl her age should be), the writer snaps his fingers and says "hey, well, this time around you're in a different reality where Taka and Kana do have perfect tissue compatibility!".

Heck I thought it'd be nice if they gave more of an epilogue to ending 1 to at least see Kana get back together with Taka in the future after seperating + making her own spot in life outside of the Todo family.

Well, if 'fanfic' isn't a dirty word to you, try here:

http://www.the-z-projects.com/kana/

User Info: Shoot the Works

Shoot the Works
4 years ago#5
You can get HLA mismatch zero and still get Recollection. Kana went all out in tricking me into thinking I'd gotten The First Farewell again that last time.

User Info: NeutralDrow

NeutralDrow
4 years ago#6
Yeah. The two always have an HLA mismatch of zero. It's just that they don't know about that in endings 4-6, and it simply winds up not mattering in 2 and 3 (success with that isn't inevitable).
"Oh man, we're in trouble!"
"Come now. The worst that can happen is we all die."

User Info: Shoot the Works

Shoot the Works
4 years ago#7
No no, you can actually get HLA mismatch one depending on your choices. Possibly even two. I'm not really sure; it's been a while.

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
4 years ago#8
I've definitely seen HLA mismatch one, but I admit I don't know exactly how it correlates to Kana surviving or not.

What different choices did you make in that Recollection playthrough, Shoot?

User Info: Shoot the Works

Shoot the Works
4 years ago#9
Similar to the route that got me The First Farewell, but a few extra deviations.

Early teens:
Bike - "Sorry, I wanted to try something flashy"
Aquarium - Dolphin show
After the festival - Hug her
Gift - The Floating Island (!)

The dolphin show was obviously a wrong choice because I let the damn porpoise steal Kana's first kiss /shakes fist Jokes aside, this one was more a test to see if The Floating Island was that big of a deal. When I saw HLA mismatch zero, I was thinking "Yay, The First Farewell". And then sumer happened ._. Kind of curious to see how the dolphin show rates in ED 1 vs 2...

Just curious; I'm sure this has been done before, but has anyone given "sex offender Taka" a spin? I'm guessing all those choices ultimately lead to Recollection...

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
4 years ago#10
I remember trying the sex offender route out of curiosity, to see if it would unlock anything different. There was no difference, though. I'm pretty sure that, based on my choice of reading material for her, Kana still turned out intellectual and I got one of the intellectual endings.

Of course, my memory of this is pretty vague and I may well have ended up with Ending 2.
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