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User Info: Idaeus_004

Idaeus_004
4 years ago#41
Darkling183 posted...
To be honest, though, I've always thought that Kana sounds like the vocalist for 'The White Season', since that was the only point of reference I had for years when playing KLS.

Agreed. That's the exact same voice I have in my head when reading her dialogue, lol. I guess it's obviously since the song's about her & all; but it does fit ...

Darkling183 posted...
The big fansite for KLS (now unfortunately defunct) was Kana's Left Kidney, and I eagerly lapped up everything that the site owner had to say about the game.

Is it still about? I know it wont've had or be having any more updates, but I may have a look at it out of curiosity when I've got five free minutes... Too much going on to check atm, this is my internet usage of the day, haha.

Darkling183 posted...
Though I wonder what the hell I was thinking now, at the time I preferred black-haired Kana because she looked more conventionally cute.

Exactly what I meant. The artwork & character designs for Okaeri were most likely modernized for the sake of the intended market appeal. I'd wager they though that people would find the original artwork too 'primitive' when compared to the way anime & manga styled imagery was looking at the time of Okaeri's release. Of course, the original artwork suited the mood of the story much better, hence why the PSP remake went back to them, & attempted to emulate the visual style for the newer images (Though you can of course tell which ones the new ones are ...).

Darkling183 posted...
I did find a use for the last shot of Kana in the rain, though, so I'm not complaining too much. It was just too powerful an image to ignore.

Yeah, I did notice that when reading New Blooms. Nice touch ^_^

FYI, finished doing the basic ideas for each chapter of the fanfic I wanna write. Currently standing at 17 chapters (Man did THAT ever run away from me! Haha, was intending 5-10, tops, lol), though I may remove one as it feels a bit sluggish & pointless to me. Now gotta find time to start writing them out properly (as I wanna properly match the game style, since I'll eventually work through it in Flash) ... I kinda miss those stories that, once over, I could just move right on from ... Actually wait ... No I don't, haha.

Darkling183 posted...
Oh, I hear you, brother. As I've mentioned before, I have this annoying tendency to fixate on side characters who never get any time in the spotlight. Maybe I just like girls who are more or less blank slates, so I can fill in the details for myself?

Hmm, that could be it I suppose. But at the same time I like the one's who have solid, well formed, personalities. Characters who, even if they did something surprising; you could say was in form with their character... I don't think I'll ever sort out the exact reason I focus on certain characters more than others ...

I definitely like characters that you can expand on with your imagination though; I get what you mean there ... I guess I seem to basically follow no logical pattern at all ... Suppose I'm just odd like that. >_>

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
4 years ago#42
virumor posted...
http://www.cyberfront.co.jp/title/do/index.html

Holy what the--? The character designs were one of the very few things I didn't loathe about Family Project (except the awesomeness that was Kei, of course - see what I mean about my liking side characters the best?), and now they've turned the characters into moeblobs? Even Aoba, FFS? (Not that I liked Aoba in the slightest, but if there's one character who should never be mentioned in the same breath as 'moeblob', it's her.)


Idaeus_004 posted...
Agreed. That's the exact same voice I have in my head when reading her dialogue, lol. I guess it's obviously since the song's about her & all; but it does fit ...
The same vocalist performs a song in Crescendo; her name is Naoko Futami. Unfortunately, her singing credits on KLS and Crescendo are practically all I can find about her on the internet (in English, anyway).


Is it still about? I know it wont've had or be having any more updates, but I may have a look at it out of curiosity when I've got five free minutes... Too much going on to check atm, this is my internet usage of the day, haha.
Unfortunately, no. It was on a site that closed down its hosting services a year or two ago, and DryOnion (the owner of the site) had either forgotten about it or moved on. Either way, the site died when the Prodigy hosting did.


Exactly what I meant. The artwork & character designs for Okaeri were most likely modernized for the sake of the intended market appeal. I'd wager they though that people would find the original artwork too 'primitive' when compared to the way anime & manga styled imagery was looking at the time of Okaeri's release.
For me, it was partly that. The conventional anime style of Okaeri appealed to me more at the time, since I was still relatively new to anime. But it was also the fact that KLS Kana looked weird to me in comparison. She had sallow skin, shadows under her eyes, slightly pointed ears and an angular face. Of course, those are all the things that make her distinctive and special to me now, but at the time her character design was a little unconventional for my uncultured tastes.


FYI, finished doing the basic ideas for each chapter of the fanfic I wanna write. Currently standing at 17 chapters (Man did THAT ever run away from me! Haha, was intending 5-10, tops, lol), though I may remove one as it feels a bit sluggish & pointless to me.
Tell me about it. I finished MSMS and thought, "Phew, okay, that was fun and now I'm finished with Kana". A month or two later, I started writing another couple of chapters, 'just to say the last little bits I wanted to say'. That turned into a seven chapter story, during which Blinding White came to me, as an idea for 'just a single scene'. The plan for Blinding White promptly expanded to six chapters, then nine. Screw the Greek versions - Kana was apparently all the muse I needed!


I don't think I'll ever sort out the exact reason I focus on certain characters more than others ...

I guess I seem to basically follow no logical pattern at all ... Suppose I'm just odd like that. >_>
Oh, I'm the same. There's very little rhyme or reason to why I'll find a particular girl attractive. I played X-Change: Yin-Yang Alternative (I have no recollection why I chose to), in which the protagonist is turned into a girl. So did one of the female love interests end up being my favourite? Nope, my favourite path is the one in which the protagonist ends up with his male best friend (while staying a girl, I hasten to add)! Stupid brain. *rolls eyes*

User Info: Idaeus_004

Idaeus_004
4 years ago#43
Huh, may have to add X-Change to my list of stuff to look at. Not played any 'quirky' stuff in a while, always interesting, lol.

With the KLS fanfic thing though, I think it does go far to show how wonderful KLS was (is, rather), that despite people like us being irked at the unclear ending (for the true end I mean obviously); rather than get p***ed at it, it's instead driven us to explore it in a creative light. Something which very little else tends to inspire. Goes to show what a (sadly under-appreciated) work of art it actually is ...

I think Kana may also be an exception the the 'no idea why I find certain girls attractive' as well, lol. I'd challenge anyone not to play through KLS, getting to know her & look at her personality & NOT fall in love :)

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
4 years ago#44
Idaeus_004 posted...
Huh, may have to add X-Change to my list of stuff to look at. Not played any 'quirky' stuff in a while, always interesting, lol.
I occasionally have the urge to play through that game again just for that path. I'm not sure exactly what it is about that path that spoke to me. I certainly have no yaoi tendencies at all, but in this case it's not... exactly... yaoi? I think the 'quirky' angle you mentioned plays into it here. I liked the idea of the protagonist embracing his new status as a female and unwillingly falling in love with a man.


With the KLS fanfic thing though, I think it does go far to show how wonderful KLS was (is, rather), that despite people like us being irked at the unclear ending (for the true end I mean obviously); rather than get p***ed at it, it's instead driven us to explore it in a creative light. Something which very little else tends to inspire. Goes to show what a (sadly under-appreciated) work of art it actually is ...
Oh, KLS certainly flies under the radar these days, given the glut of sex-fest bishoujo games out there, but people who do play it almost unanimously love it. And, as you said, it's practically a given that they fall in love with Kana.

Over the years, I've received lots of emails from people who have played KLS and been unsatisfied with the ending, then found my fanfics and thanked me for giving them the opportunity for closure that the game's open-ended Japanese-storytelling-style conclusion didn't. So people may very well have been irked by the game's lack of closure.

Apart from Kana Eternity, though, there aren't many KLS fanfics out there that are both substantial and complete.

Here's one that a friend of mine (Bookworm) wrote:
http://forums.theanimeplace.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=679

And here's one that JPop4Life and I wrote together for fun:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3327090/1/Looking-for-Kana-s-Eyes


I think Kana may also be an exception the the 'no idea why I find certain girls attractive' as well, lol. I'd challenge anyone not to play through KLS, getting to know her & look at her personality & NOT fall in love :)
Yeah. At the start she's so shy and vulnerable that it sparks my protective instincts (even to the point where I want to protect her from Taka in the first few scenes of the game). Then she starts growing up and I feel like I'm contributing to who she's becoming, through the books and gifts I choose to give her, and the excursions I choose to take her on.

She becomes wiser and sweeter and more serene, and so loving that it makes my heart break whenever she tries to broach the subject of their forbidden love but can't. A girl that kind and gentle should never have had to go through what Kana did. But that's another thing that I love about her - the strength she gained through adversity.

User Info: Idaeus_004

Idaeus_004
4 years ago#45
Darkling183 posted...
I occasionally have the urge to play through that game again just for that path. I'm not sure exactly what it is about that path that spoke to me. I certainly have no yaoi tendencies at all, but in this case it's not... exactly... yaoi? I think the 'quirky' angle you mentioned plays into it here. I liked the idea of the protagonist embracing his new status as a female and unwillingly falling in love with a man.

Nah, I get what you mean, feel a similar sort of way to be honest. So if it's weird then at least you're not alone in that, haha. It's just a very interesting take on it; & also (in a way) gives you a womans perspective on it, at least in a vague sense. Plus, I think most people have at least imagined themselves as the opposite gender at least once, if not seriously, & stuff like that is just another VN made from someones ideas after all...

Darkling183 posted...
Yeah. At the start she's so shy and vulnerable that it sparks my protective instincts (even to the point where I want to protect her from Taka in the first few scenes of the game). Then she starts growing up and I feel like I'm contributing to who she's becoming, through the books and gifts I choose to give her, and the excursions I choose to take her on.

She becomes wiser and sweeter and more serene, and so loving that it makes my heart break whenever she tries to broach the subject of their forbidden love but can't. A girl that kind and gentle should never have had to go through what Kana did. But that's another thing that I love about her - the strength she gained through adversity.

Yeah, she's not the stereotypical helpless-little-princess, but nor is she the extremely strong-&-immovable type either, she's basically, human; & a very believable character.

I'll totally agree as well that at first, when Taka's a jerk to her when she's little, I was very much wishing I could punch him more than once. But when he nearly dies saving her & thereafter becomes dedicated to protecting her, I changed my mind.

I guess it is the fact that she's such a pure & gentle girl; & in such a cruel & unfair situation; that helps fuel everything that happens. It's the both the reason Taka begins to have feelings for her, & also the reason he tries to fight them as well. But even so, she's not a character who just panics & cries about her fate (I know she does get upset a few times, but it's very understandable in her case) but instead grows stronger for it, & is able to confess her feelings to Taka (Like you, I found the times when she tried to talk about her feelings to Taka heart-breaking).

She's definitely one of the most complex & interesting characters I've seen in just about anything for ages. Pretty much a no brainer as to why I fell for her; & why I reacted nearly as Taka did when I got endings 2 & 3, lol.

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
4 years ago#46
Idaeus_004 posted...
Nah, I get what you mean, feel a similar sort of way to be honest. So if it's weird then at least you're not alone in that, haha. It's just a very interesting take on it; & also (in a way) gives you a womans perspective on it, at least in a vague sense.
Hmm. I think I might dig out my copy of that game and see if I can get it to run under Windows 7. It might be a way to get myself back into the bishoujo game mood so I can give Katawa Shoujo a try.


Yeah, she's not the stereotypical helpless-little-princess, but nor is she the extremely strong-&-immovable type either, she's basically, human; & a very believable character.
I think that's exactly it. Yumi is, to an extent, implausible. Her obsession with Taka is a deus ex machina. The same goes for most bishoujo games where more than one girl is romantically interested in the protagonist - not a lot of effort goes into explaining why the girl feels the way she does.

But with KLS, we see exactly why Taka loves Kana, and why Kana loves Taka. It's all demonstrated and justified so clearly that I was gnashing my teeth every time Yumi or Yuta showed up to get in the way. Kana and Taka's relationship is explored in such depth that there was no chance in hell that I would encourage her to go out with Yuta, or do anything but reject Yumi the date-rapist at every possible opportunity.

Kana is given the chance to be developed more than a typical bishoujo game character. There are shades of grey and subtleties to her; she isn't just a stereotype like 'the childhood friend' or 'the tomboy' or 'the poor little rich girl'. She's weak but she's not helpless; she's afraid but she manages to work up the courage to express her feelings to Taka a couple of times; her attitude to life is shaped by Taka, but Taka's attitude to life (and particularly death) are shaped by her in return.

I think these are all reasons why KLS is, and always will be, my favourite bishoujo game. It has emotional complexity, deft characterisation (for the two major characters) and real tear-jerking moments. That's everything I look for in a story, whether interactive or not.

User Info: Idaeus_004

Idaeus_004
4 years ago#47
Darkling183 posted...
It might be a way to get myself back into the bishoujo game mood so I can give Katawa Shoujo a try.

Yeah, I've still not played KS yet... Got it & everything, but just not started it yet for some reason; really no idea why either ... Maybe I'm just really apprehensive about starting something new atm, lol; no way it'll measure up if you know what I mean ^_^

I will definitely get around to it though, I do like the look of it; & a good story-heavy VN is what I want that's for sure ... Guess I'm just worried that I'll be disappointed I suppose ... Hmm... Only one way to find out I guess...

Darkling183 posted...
Yumi is, to an extent, implausible. Her obsession with Taka is a deus ex machina. The same goes for most bishoujo games where more than one girl is romantically interested in the protagonist - not a lot of effort goes into explaining why the girl feels the way she does.

Yeah, Yumi is definitely 'plot device'. No doubt about it. Falling desperately for someone who once sent you a love letter about ten years ago, which resulted in a blowout that ended in them despising you for pretty much all that time? If that led to her basically obsessing over him from then on, then she has even more issues than the game points at to begin with ...

She's also there for plot in the sense that Taka admits that it partly because of the fiasco with Yumi that he in fact grew so close to Kana. If that hadn't of happened, then they may not have become nearly as close as they did.

Darkling183 posted...
But with KLS, we see exactly why Taka loves Kana, and why Kana loves Taka. It's all demonstrated and justified so clearly that I was gnashing my teeth every time Yumi or Yuta showed up to get in the way. Kana and Taka's relationship is explored in such depth that there was no chance in hell that I would encourage her to go out with Yuta, or do anything but reject Yumi the date-rapist at every possible opportunity.

Kana is given the chance to be developed more than a typical bishoujo game character. There are shades of grey and subtleties to her; she isn't just a stereotype like 'the childhood friend' or 'the tomboy' or 'the poor little rich girl'. She's weak but she's not helpless; she's afraid but she manages to work up the courage to express her feelings to Taka a couple of times; her attitude to life is shaped by Taka, but Taka's attitude to life (and particularly death) are shaped by her in return.

I think these are all reasons why KLS is, and always will be, my favourite bishoujo game. It has emotional complexity, deft characterisation (for the two major characters) and real tear-jerking moments. That's everything I look for in a story, whether interactive or not.

God, the first time Yuta showed up, my mental radar just went 'Trouble! This guy needs to be kept away!', as did it when Yumi reappears once Taka's in college.

One thing about Yuta though, is he actually helps show why Taka deserves Kana, in that Yuta is only interested in the idea of Kana as this 'pure innocent little girl who must be shielded from the world forever' whereas Taka understands that although she is pure & innocent; she can't be locked away from the world; she has to experience it; which will change her & remove her naivete.

User Info: Idaeus_004

Idaeus_004
4 years ago#48
You're right that she's by far the most developed character I've ever seen in a VN. It's true that 99.999% of heroines in these games never seem to have a defined reason for falling for the protagonist (or him for her as a matter of fact); but in KLS there are LOTS of instances that give reasons for why the two love EACH OTHER. Both ways.

Add to this that (as you say) they shape each other as people, not just one or the other; & influence each others view on life, death, the world, & everything else they face; but how they are actually capable of growing & facing their weaknesses & fears (Kana is terrified of Taka pushing her away if she should confess to him for instance, but manages to do it anyway), & the character development in KLS is just a masterpiece on its own.

KLS is definitely & by far the best VN I've experienced, by no small degree; & you're right that it has so many fantastic story elements in it; & I'm both sorry, AND happy to say that I can't see it getting knocked off the spot of my all-time favourite VN anytime soon, if ever.

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
4 years ago#49
Idaeus_004 posted...
Yeah, I've still not played KS yet... Got it & everything, but just not started it yet for some reason; really no idea why either ... Maybe I'm just really apprehensive about starting something new atm, lol; no way it'll measure up if you know what I mean ^_^

Guess I'm just worried that I'll be disappointed I suppose ...
Yes, exactly the same here. I downloaded it months ago and still have it backed up on a disc, but I've never actually installed it. I've heard people rave about it, but I always find myself wondering "yeah, but have you played KLS? Do you have that for comparison?".


Falling desperately for someone who once sent you a love letter about ten years ago, which resulted in a blowout that ended in them despising you for pretty much all that time? If that led to her basically obsessing over him from then on, then she has even more issues than the game points at to begin with ...
So true. I LOLed. =)

My problem with subsequent games from Hajime Yamada / Romeo Tanaka is that all of the characters become deus ex machinas, purely there to service the needs of the plot. I don't know where the writer with the insight and sensitivity to create Kana Todo went, but none of the characters in Yume Miru Kusuri or Family Project engaged me on more than the most superficial level.

And you're dead-on about Yumi being the plot device that drives Kana and Taka closer together. I know that the relationship between Taka and Kana had already started changing after the hiking trip, but the incident with Yumi cemented Taka's resolution to spend more time with Kana than he had been doing. I get the feeling that his dedication to visiting her might have drifted otherwise.


One thing about Yuta though, is he actually helps show why Taka deserves Kana, in that Yuta is only interested in the idea of Kana as this 'pure innocent little girl who must be shielded from the world forever' whereas Taka understands that although she is pure & innocent; she can't be locked away from the world; she has to experience it; which will change her & remove her naivete.
Wow, cool. Thanks for that! I never understood what Yuta was getting at with that speech or what it was supposed to prove. You're right - Yuta wouldn't have encouraged Kana to grow; he would have just tried to shield her from everything.

Speaking of games with great stories, have you played The Walking Dead adventure game from Telltale? The central relationship in that game is well-developed and leads to a strong emotional climax. I'm not even a fan of TWD in any of its other forms - never read the comic book, and could only get through two episodes of the TV show before realising it wasn't for me - but I loved the game.

User Info: Idaeus_004

Idaeus_004
4 years ago#50
Darkling183 posted...
I've heard people rave about it, but I always find myself wondering "yeah, but have you played KLS? Do you have that for comparison?".

Likewise. In retrospect, if I could've gone back & wanred myself, I would've played a lot more titles BEFORE playing KLS; since it does make everything else look a lot weaker by comparison. I've heard nothing but good things about KS, but like you I always think "yeah, but I wanna know how it stands up to Kana ...".

I have little doubt that it won't be anywhere near as powerful, no matter how good it is; since it's a multiple-girl VN, whereas KLS, despite Yumi, was really only about one. Meaning that, as we've discussed, it had a much higher amount of character development, interaction, & growth.

I get the feeling that in order to stand up to KLS in my eyes at least, a VN would most likely have to focus on just the one girl again; so as to allow for a similar level of character development. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy KS, I'm sure I will. It just means I doubt I'll enjoy it anywhere near AS MUCH as Kana...

Darkling183 posted...
So true. I LOLed. =)

My problem with subsequent games from Hajime Yamada / Romeo Tanaka is that all of the characters become deus ex machinas, purely there to service the needs of the plot. I don't know where the writer with the insight and sensitivity to create Kana Todo went, but none of the characters in Yume Miru Kusuri or Family Project engaged me on more than the most superficial level.

And you're dead-on about Yumi being the plot device that drives Kana and Taka closer together. I know that the relationship between Taka and Kana had already started changing after the hiking trip, but the incident with Yumi cemented Taka's resolution to spend more time with Kana than he had been doing. I get the feeling that his dedication to visiting her might have drifted otherwise.

Lol, glad you found it amusing. Must admit that I do feel slightly sorry for Yumi, being such an obvious machina plot device. Poor lass, haha...

It's a shame that Tanaka's work's deteriorated really, since we obviously know that she's capable of producing an incredible piece of story work when she tries... Perhaps there've been production demands & such that have caused problems or something, but it is discouraging to see such a talented artist slip in the quality of their work...

Pretty sure Taka would've still cared for Kana without the Yumi-incident; but you're right in that he definitely wouldn't have become AS close to her as he did. It was of course due to the problem with Yumi that he closed himself off romantically, meaning that the only girl who ever wasn't kept at arms length was Kana. Which is in part not only why he began to fall for her, but of course why she fell for him. I just love the fact that even though they were raised to believe they were siblings; it's one of the most justified & understandable attractions between the two that I've ever seen.
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