Definitely worthwhile ... (Spoliers)

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User Info: NeutralDrow

NeutralDrow
3 years ago#71
Darkling183 posted...
snip

At least with your other, typical sex-fest games, they have a relatively shorter common path, and the bulk of each girl's story is told once you're set on her path and have indicated that you have an interest in her. But not FP. No, in FP, each girl's ISSUES get forced down your throat.

That's probably the difference in our experience, then. I did find Hiroshi really funny (except when his insanity caused actual problems), I did really like most of the main cast (maybe excepting Aoba, but even if I don't like her, she's at least an entertaining sort of evil), and I didn't notice much actual social commentary (certainly not to the extent of A Drug That Makes You Dream), just a bunch of people with personal issues. And if I'm with a cast of characters I like, I can be endlessly patient.

Which was kind of necessary, since Family Project is that long...but I also feel it genuinely had to be that long. The whole point is summed up in the title, it's a story about the makeshift family they form, and in a subversion of the usual dating sim logic, both the plot and the player choices revolve around the misanthropic Tsukasa connecting with everyone, not just whoever the main love interest is. Not saying I'm going to repeat absolutely everything every time (only have Masumi's ending under my belt so far, which I enjoyed), but even on just one playthrough so far, that's the impression I got.

Now that I think about it, Crescendo also integrates the sex scenes into the plot very strongly. There are at least three sexual encounters in the game that drive the plot forward, rather than just being the reward for winning the girl of your choice (though there's that variety as well, of course).

Let me guess...Yuka, Yuka, Miyuki? Or is one of those Ayame?

Ah, Crescendo...I've played games I've loved and liked, games I disliked and despised, but I think that's the only one so far that I just found disappointing. It was too short overall, most of it didn't leave much lasting impact, was chokingly angsty even for me, and of the routes that did leave impact, one was a horrible impact, one was great until its inexplicable anticlimax ending, and one...made me cry myself to sleep two nights in a row, so no complaints there.

Though I have to admit, I did find Crescendo's use of sex scenes novel in that you can get good endings even while entirely missing those scenes. Not simply that you can choose for them not to happen, you can literally wind up on an alternate storyline where even the circumstance doesn't come up. At least, that happened to me with Kaho.

Idaeus_004
Haha, will do. Unfortunately not had time today, but HOPING to get a chance by the end of the weekend (lot going on lately -_- ); but hopefully by tomorrow evening if I can. Definitely itching to have a go... Just making sure the patch is working properly first :)

I'll be interested to know your opinion, too. Impulse bought that game myself, last Comic Con, haven't opened it yet.

It seems like a silly thing; but when you consider that the main point of 99.99% of bishoujo games IS sex, it becomes incredible to realise that here's a game that's pretty much a masterpiece; yet the sex scenes aren't actually the scenes that stick in your head & you think of for years after.

Not that silly. Then again, that might be because I played enough games that were about the story over the sex even before I got to Kana, or maybe I just give non-nukige sex scenes the benefit of the doubt, as far as emotion is concerned.

Then again, I had no adverse reaction to Tsukihime's sex scenes, so maybe I'm just weird.
"Oh man, we're in trouble!"
"Come now. The worst that can happen is we all die."

User Info: Idaeus_004

Idaeus_004
3 years ago#72
Yeah; have wanted to get a hold of Tsukihime for aaaaaaages... But so far to no avail. If anyone can point me to somewhere I could get it I'd be grateful, lol.

It's just kind of annoying in a strange way that it's just so difficult to find titles that can measure up to KLS & don't appear weak by comparison.

In regards to 'If My Heart'. It's installed, but the patch is being uncooperative as of the present... So I may be taking a look at that tomorrow. Definitely want to get it sorted & start going through it, as it does seem look very good. Just need to check the site for the patch & see what I'm doing wrong... Probably something stupid ... Usually the case :/

User Info: NeutralDrow

NeutralDrow
3 years ago#73
Idaeus_004 posted...
Yeah; have wanted to get a hold of Tsukihime for aaaaaaages... But so far to no avail. If anyone can point me to somewhere I could get it I'd be grateful, lol.

Well, it has been out of print for almost ten years. I eventually managed to track down and buy a used copy some months back, and it cost me over $100. I was only willing to pay that much because I'd already played it (my first VN, in fact).

Fairly sure it's against board policy for me to provide links, but if you search for the Tsukibako, you'll find it. That one's reliable (if a Chinese translation is mentioned anywhere, it'll be the right one).

It's just kind of annoying in a strange way that it's just so difficult to find titles that can measure up to KLS & don't appear weak by comparison.

I haven't really had much trouble, which probably means we wouldn't agree on much. I do count it among my favorites, though on a different scale. My big three favorites are Tsukihime, A Drug That Makes You Dream, and Kanon, with titles like Fate/Stay Night, Symphonic Rain, and Katawa Shoujo bringing up the rear.

And there's other games that aren't as good as those, but are still enjoyable, like Da Capo, Snow Sakura, and Princess Waltz.
"Oh man, we're in trouble!"
"Come now. The worst that can happen is we all die."

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
3 years ago#74
NeutralDrow posted...
Let me guess...Yuka, Yuka, Miyuki? Or is one of those Ayame?
Did you mean Miyu? Hadn't thought of her, actually, but I don't think the sex scene with her is as plot-driving as the ones I was thinking about.

Yes, one of them was Ayame, and one of them was Yuka. The third one I was thinking of was Kaori, but now that I think about it, I seem to recall that choosing that scene puts you onto her bad ending (though I could be getting confused with a similar situation in Yuka's path). It's been a while since I've played Crescendo, and Kaori is pretty low in the pecking order for me (though I still enjoy her path), so my recollection of the exact details of her path aren't that clear.

Hmm, come to think of it - it's been a really long time since I played Crescendo. Maybe it's time to rectify that. =)


of the routes that did leave impact, one was a horrible impact, one was great until its inexplicable anticlimax ending, and one...made me cry myself to sleep two nights in a row, so no complaints there.
Okay, random guessing time. Yuka, (no idea), Miyu?

User Info: NeutralDrow

NeutralDrow
3 years ago#75
Darkling183 posted...
NeutralDrow posted...
Let me guess...Yuka, Yuka, Miyuki? Or is one of those Ayame?
Did you mean Miyu? Hadn't thought of her, actually, but I don't think the sex scene with her is as plot-driving as the ones I was thinking about.

Yes, one of them was Ayame, and one of them was Yuka. The third one I was thinking of was Kaori, but now that I think about it, I seem to recall that choosing that scene puts you onto her bad ending (though I could be getting confused with a similar situation in Yuka's path). It's been a while since I've played Crescendo, and Kaori is pretty low in the pecking order for me (though I still enjoy her path), so my recollection of the exact details of her path aren't that clear.

Hmm, come to think of it - it's been a really long time since I played Crescendo. Maybe it's time to rectify that. =)

Yep, Miyu. Must have been pondering YMK, and had Mizuki on my mind at the same time... >_>

Ah, no wonder I didn't see it, then. The only bad endings I got were Ayame's and Yuka's, and the latter was totally on accident. The game is so short, I didn't even realize I was on her route until the ending (I was aiming for Kaho). Kaori was actually the route I had the least objection to, other than Miyu.

of the routes that did leave impact, one was a horrible impact, one was great until its inexplicable anticlimax ending, and one...made me cry myself to sleep two nights in a row, so no complaints there.
Okay, random guessing time. Yuka, (no idea), Miyu?

Ayame, Yuka, Miyu. By "horrible impact," I mean one that I hated, not one I found horrifying, and I never got over the fact that you have to rape Ayame in order to get Ayame's good ending (actually, I never got over the sexuality of that route in general; incest that didn't have the plausibility of KLS, Tsukihime, or Princess Waltz).

Yuka's route was seriously set up to be...well, not my "favorite" per se (that's too uncomfortable an adjective to apply to it), but definitely the most affecting. And if it had ended fifteen minutes earlier or fifteen minutes later, it might have ended up that way. Considering what happens, ending on the standard graduation moment, with no reference to what previously happened, and the lowest amount of post-graduation resolution of anyone (even Kaho had more, and that was just a scene of them sitting in the clubroom reading!), was the worst thing they could have done, to my mind. Anticlimactic enough to even erase the actual climax.
"Oh man, we're in trouble!"
"Come now. The worst that can happen is we all die."

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
3 years ago#76
NeutralDrow posted...
Yuka's route was seriously set up to be...well, not my "favorite" per se (that's too uncomfortable an adjective to apply to it), but definitely the most affecting.
I was expecting Yuka's path to be my least favourite when I first got the game; I judged her by her appearance and her actions, the way Ryo did. But it turned out to be my favourite path (though Yuka isn't my favourite girl in the game) because of how emotionally involving I found it. And I do love Ryo's final line. The ending gave me the feeling that Yuka's life had definitively changed for the better.

Most of the endings also come to a more-or-less abrupt end after the graduation ceremony. There's the group photo then usually a brief conversation between Ryo and his love interest, then a 'happy' CG and the end. That may have tied the writers' hands somewhat in terms of giving Yuka's path more closure.

Again, though, it's been ages since I've played Crescendo, so I might be misremembering about the amount of post-graduation material in some of the endings. Does the literature club party happen before or after the ceremony? I remember that Ayame's and Kaori's paths end pretty much straight after the group photo, at the very least.

Damn it, now I really want to play Crescendo again. Sorry, Katawa Shoujo, you'll have to wait your turn.

User Info: Idaeus_004

Idaeus_004
3 years ago#77
Darkling183 posted...
Damn it, now I really want to play Crescendo again. Sorry, Katawa Shoujo, you'll have to wait your turn.

Man, we really have a problem with playing that don't we? Lol.

Been staring at that for ages but something always seems to get in the way ... (Also happening to If My Heart Had Wings too to be honest ... That & the patch is being awkward ... I suck at installing stuff like that ... think I'm doing it wrong dammit) Keep thinking of playing it, & keep getting sidetracked. I'm reasonably certain I'll get it done before the new year though, haha.

I seriously have a major issue with VNs where you have to do things like rape or torment in order to get a 'good' ending though ... It's one reason I try to block out Hitomi: My Ster-sister. I fail to see how people can enjoy doing something like that & justifying it as a step towards something good at all. Pretty messed up... In fact the only fault I had with KLS was how you had to be pretty horrible to Yumi to get the true ending. (admittedly I felt less-bad about that after she date-raped Taka though).

User Info: virumor

virumor
3 years ago#78
D.O. made some of the very best slice-of-life VNs, but my favourite modern VN company is Nitro+.

They're like a modern day C's Ware with their imaginative, unusual settings and ambitious storylines.

JAST has a deal with them; of course they're now translating the only title I have absolutely zero interest in (Sumaga).

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
3 years ago#79
Idaeus_004 posted...
Man, we really have a problem with playing that don't we? Lol.
I don't know. I just seem to be in a nostalgic mood for some reason - I keep thinking of particular characters or movies or anime series that I want to revisit. I'm a little bored of XCA by now. I think I diverged down too many other paths and started remembering why I gave up bishoujo games in the first place - the fact that it's all too rare to find anything resembling emotional depth in them, and the actual 'gameplay' itself is minimal.

I've been 'meaning to' play Katawa Shoujo since it was released... almost two years ago now. Wow.

It's ironic (for obvious reasons), but part of why I'm a bit wary of Katawa Shoujo is because it's a fan-made project rather than a professional one. I guess I'm worried about the artwork or the storytelling lacking polish.


I seriously have a major issue with VNs where you have to do things like rape or torment in order to get a 'good' ending though ... It's one reason I try to block out Hitomi: My Step-sister. I fail to see how people can enjoy doing something like that & justifying it as a step towards something good at all.
Well, the Japanese bishoujo game market is a lot bigger than the English one, and it caters to a much wider range of very specific and eclectic tastes. HMS is an example of a genre I definitely don't want to play again.

Crescendo is actually quite interesting in the way it handles sex. I mean, in most bishoujo games, having sex with your love interest means the relationship is going well, but in Crescendo it's a little more complicated than that. Guilt, respect and self-esteem issues play into the decisions you make regarding some of the sexual encounters. Often the choice I thought was the correct one turned out to be exactly the opposite.

I don't want to get too much deeper into it, because it gets spoilery from here on. Yes, there are confronting scenes, and uncomfortable scenes. But it's not like HMS where the protagonist's just being a jerk because he gets off on it. Everything is woven into the story and given emotional justification.

User Info: NeutralDrow

NeutralDrow
3 years ago#80
Darkling183 posted...
It's ironic (for obvious reasons), but part of why I'm a bit wary of Katawa Shoujo is because it's a fan-made project rather than a professional one. I guess I'm worried about the artwork or the storytelling lacking polish.


The artwork is...eclectic, let's say. Like the story, I'm pretty sure it's the work of multiple artists, and it blends together decently enough, but some routes have better art than others. I never had a problem with the storytelling, but then...I'm also one of the strange ones who liked all five story routes, so I'm probably not the one to ask.

The music is out-and-out fantastic, though.
"Oh man, we're in trouble!"
"Come now. The worst that can happen is we all die."
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