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User Info: PIM-001

PIM-001
1 year ago#221
You know, it's less of not everybody gets a hapily ever after. It's everybody. Because in the end, no matter how much you love/trust someone, either they left in the end, or you left before they did.

And i find it rather egotistical to have carnal pleasures with a child. As ol' man Bookworm said, she most likely won't remember the molester as a good guy. What's more, from what i knew, their organs weren't that developed either way, so she'll only feels pain during the act. Not to mention that theirs were unable to perform the regular function as well, so it definitely feels worse than regular ones.

Not to mention that, without lubricants (okay, this one could be circumcised, but i still won't endorse this) her vulvae could tear up.

So yes, pining for a child's quite cool with me but for pete's sake, don't ever do it.

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
1 year ago#222
PIM-001 posted...
You know, it's less of not everybody gets a hapily ever after. It's everybody. Because in the end, no matter how much you love/trust someone, either they left in the end, or you left before they did.
I don't think it's true that there's 'no such thing' as a happily ever after, but I do believe that fiction has conditioned us to believe that it's far more common than it actually is.

I do think it's possible for a pre-adolescent child to feel sexual pleasure. They're not sexually developed yet, either physically or hormonally, so sexual urges aren't present, but I don't think that precludes them from reacting with pleasure to sexual stimuli. (I won't go into more detail than that, because I think Chris Hansen is probably already watching this thread with a great deal of suspicion, and I'm waiting for the men in balaclavas to ram down my front door.)


As ol' man Bookworm said, she most likely won't remember the molester as a good guy.
You never know. It might be messed up, but a lot of child sexual abuse probably goes unreported, and there might be victims out there who do retain a sense of love and affection for the adult who abused them, especially if it was non-violent and non-coerced abuse. There might even be cases where the pedophile falls in love with the child, and then remains romantically attached to them even as the child becomes an adult. 'Primarily' sexually attracted doesn't mean 'exclusively', after all.

On the other hand, there are probably pedophile/child relationships (even non-abusive ones) where the pedophile loses interest once the child starts maturing (physically and emotionally). In cases like those, it's the child's innocence and/or physical immaturity (probably among numerous other factors), not the child themself, that the pedophile is attracted to.

Aaaaaand I think we've probably used the word 'pedophile' way more than enough times in this thread now. Sheesh. =)

User Info: PIM-001

PIM-001
1 year ago#223
That was based on what i know, you know. And i'm not heartless enough to grab one and subject her to experimentation =))

Okay maybe everybody's a bit harsh. I'll say most.

Who's Chris Hansen? An old KLS fan? Australia's head of CIA? Your ex? (I'm not judging)

This time i used most. =))

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
1 year ago#224
PIM-001 posted...
Who's Chris Hansen?
He was the host of an America TV show called To Catch A Predator. The journalists (eventually with police involvement) would pretend to be teenage children online in order to catch people attempting to engage in sexual activity with a minor.

Apparently the Australian police does the same thing. But I think I'm safe - the most I might do is look twice at a teenage girl at a shopping centre if I think she's particularly attractive. I'm not going trawling for them online. =)

User Info: BookwormDolaDe

BookwormDolaDe
1 year ago#225
In human existence happiness is not the rule, but an exception. If you can find a little bit of it during your life, that's fine. But I don't see a reason to expect something like "living happily ever after" in real life. Fiction is definitely not reality. Maybe that's why I prefer tragic stories - just like KLS.

And it's true that the feelings of a victim of sexual abuse aren't necessarily completely negative ones; and that's something that eventually makes it extremely difficult for the child to deal with the experience. If the perpetrator is someone the child loves and trusts in, the emotions can be so mixed up and confusing, that the victim might never be able figure them out - and suffer for a lifetime from this experience. And this may happen even in those cases where the child wasn't physically harmed.

So we'll end up with the same conclusion as before: loving a child is all right; doing sexual things with a child is not. Enjoy the innocent love children are able to give, and don't mess this heart-warming experience up by pushing the child into an adult world it is not yet ready for.

User Info: PIM-001

PIM-001
1 year ago#226
Hey a wise man once said that life's suffering. Just bear with it =))

You know, darkling, i thought he catches 'that' predator. Not exactly a letdown, but eh...

And you know, some abused ones could turn into a f*** up later in life. Not that unabused ones couldn't, but eh...

I'm totally agree on that one, Uncle Bill =))

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
1 year ago#227
I just read a novel called 'Forbidden', about a brother and sister who fall in love. It's heartbreaking. =(

User Info: BookwormDolaDe

BookwormDolaDe
11 months ago#228
To be honest, I've never been able to fully comprehend what's so interesting about the concept of incest. Growing up with a younger sister in real life, I could experience the Westermarck effect first hand, so I never could relate to the idea of incestuous feelings in any way.

There are a lot of hentai manga dealing with incestuous relationships, but those are usually shallow and outright silly, so we don't need to discuss about them here. Then there are those very few stories about incest which contain more depth, like KLS or Koi Kaze. In KLS, the concept of incest adds to the tragedy; but the story would still work even without Taka and Kana being (adopted) siblings. In Koi Kaze, it's the incestuous nature of the love between Koushirou and Nanoka which causes the story to be tragic in the first place; but once again it's the tragedy which makes the story interesting, and not the incest by itself. It's the fact that the siblings didn't grow up together and only meet as adults which makes this story plausible. In the case of KLS it's at least somehow believable that Taka and Kana may fall in love, because they didn't spend the first years of their lives together, when the Westermarck effect is the strongest. But apart from rather unusual situations like that, having siblings falling in love in a story doesn't look very convincing in my eyes.

User Info: Darkling183

Darkling183
11 months ago#229
BookwormDolaDe posted...
To be honest, I've never been able to fully comprehend what's so interesting about the concept of incest.
For me, it's the fact that incest is the ultimate taboo (or, if not the 'ultimate', at least very high on the list of Things People Should Never Ever Do). The idea of a love so strong and devoted that it could overcome those barriers was profoundly compelling to me in my teenage years, as a loner completely ignored by one of his parents and who struggled to make friends at school. The idea of being loved to the extent that both partners were willing to fly in the face of society's morals just pushed all the right emotional buttons for me.


Growing up with a younger sister in real life, I could experience the Westermarck effect first hand, so I never could relate to the idea of incestuous feelings in any way.
Yes, I'm the same. Westermarck effect worked very well for me, and the idea of having romantic or sexual feelings for my sister is just, well... squicky.

However, the novel I mentioned does a very good job of detailing the extenuating circumstances leading to the two siblings falling in love. It's not just a shallow "I'm your brother; you're my sister; you're hot; let's have sex" scenario. The siblings have been leading a very difficult existence - their father abandoned them five years earlier; their mother is an irresponsible alcoholic who's never at home; they have three younger siblings whom they have to look after - running the household, paying the bills, cooking meals, and so on. They've become a team and they depend on each other for emotional support.

In the end, though, I'm not saying "go read this novel" to anyone and everyone. If you don't find the subject matter interesting, it's not going to convert you. I just thought I'd mention that I'd read it and enjoyed it. You don't see this sort of material covered in mainstream novels all that often.


In Koi Kaze, it's the incestuous nature of the love between Koushirou and Nanoka which causes the story to be tragic in the first place; but once again it's the tragedy which makes the story interesting, and not the incest by itself.
I guess you're right. It could just as easily have been about the difficulties that occur when an unrelated 28-year-old man and a 16-year-old girl fall in love. Although their relationship wouldn't be 'forbidden', it certainly wouldn't be conventional either.

User Info: BookwormDolaDe

BookwormDolaDe
11 months ago#230
Darkling183 posted...
For me, it's the fact that incest is the ultimate taboo (or, if not the 'ultimate', at least very high on the list of Things People Should Never Ever Do). The idea of a love so strong and devoted that it could overcome those barriers was profoundly compelling to me in my teenage years, as a loner completely ignored by one of his parents and who struggled to make friends at school. The idea of being loved to the extent that both partners were willing to fly in the face of society's morals just pushed all the right emotional buttons for me.
Yes, I can see your point. Incest is definitely seen as an extremely serious taboo; and it's an interesting fact that it's just the same in our Western societies with their Christian heritage as well as in East Asian ones with Buddhist or Confucian traditions.

Yes, I'm the same. Westermarck effect worked very well for me, and the idea of having romantic or sexual feelings for my sister is just, well... squicky.
Right, that's it. There's just no way to relate to incestuous feelings in real life.

However, the novel I mentioned does a very good job of detailing the extenuating circumstances leading to the two siblings falling in love. It's not just a shallow "I'm your brother; you're my sister; you're hot; let's have sex" scenario.
If that were the case, you certainly wouldn't have found this story impressive at all. ;)

The siblings have been leading a very difficult existence - their father abandoned them five years earlier; their mother is an irresponsible alcoholic who's never at home; they have three younger siblings whom they have to look after - running the household, paying the bills, cooking meals, and so on. They've become a team and they depend on each other for emotional support.
I can see how a situation like this would lead the protagonists to become emotionally close. But I still can't imagine how that would possibly eliminate the Westermarck effect.

In the end, though, I'm not saying "go read this novel" to anyone and everyone. If you don't find the subject matter interesting, it's not going to convert you. I just thought I'd mention that I'd read it and enjoyed it. You don't see this sort of material covered in mainstream novels all that often.
Tastes are different, of course. Still, while I have my own weird fetishes, the thought of a taboo doesn't seem to be that compelling in my eyes. Maybe that's because I follow my own set of morals - with the central point being the question: "Does this hurt a sentient being or not?" So as long as it's a non-abusive relationship between consenting adults, I don't see anything forbidden with it. the interesting aspect of the story from my point of view would not be the taboo itself, but society's reaction to it - just like in Koi Kaze.

I guess you're right. It could just as easily have been about the difficulties that occur when an unrelated 28-year-old man and a 16-year-old girl fall in love. Although their relationship wouldn't be 'forbidden', it certainly wouldn't be conventional either.
But that way the story would loose much of its tragic aspect; an unconventional couple could eventually find a way to be together without society frowning at them - they would just have to wait a few years until the girl's a little older, and nobody would complain about their relationship any more. But for an incestuous couple there's no way out - they would be seen as "sinners" no matter where they go and what they do.

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