Am I the only one....(serious question)

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  3. Am I the only one....(serious question)

User Info: Purification

4 years ago#1
who thinks that Gwyn symbolizes the projection of reality? According to Anti-Positivist Logic, there is no true objective reality, everything is is viewed through the eyes of each individual unique human being. With that in mind, no two humans can apparently view the same scene with the exact same emotions and thoughts. Although, we can get pretty close by having everyone agree to an objective reality and that agreement forms our truth and reality.

For example, everything in the world is subjective, but the objectified truth becomes the norm and standard, otherwise, fact would not exist and everything would be considered opinion.

With that in mind, Gwyn, represents an objectified reality. For example, when Frampt tells you (the Chosen) that you are destined to take Gwyn's place and light the fire, that is what you are hearing. Yet, the crestfallen warrior also tells you an objectified reality. But with all the players appearing and disappearing (the distortion of the fabrics of reality), the one single molecular world is broken up and you get a distorted imbalance. Yet the fire is to fix that balance, its to repair the distortion. Gwyn did this once and is the embodiment of stability. By losing his mind, he becomes an everlasting fixed stability. No matter how much time passes, he stays the same, feeling the same emotion (basically, nothing) and never aging, etc. He is static until you kill him

But the thing is, when you kill him, you take his place (if you choose to light the fire) and become the new "Gwyn" but as this happens, you force yourself into his role and Frampt's reality, Gwyn's original truth, and yours all combine to become the new order. You bring order to chaos by fixing the distortion but when that happens, you create a loop. You light the fire, you end the darksign, but in contrast, you fill Gwyn's role and this brings forth a new form of chaos (the concept of world creation).

What I'm saying is that by taking Gwyn's place, you are embodying the ideals of a projected idea, formed by the collective conscious of the inhabitants of Lordran. Everyone in Lordran has their own concept of the world and their own role. Solaire wants his own sun, Logan wants to find the archives, etc. Each of them has their own ideals and goals and this creates a conflict with Gwyn, Frampt, and your own quest. That's why you subjugate them all at the end of their own storylines (ex. you kill almost everyone when they go hollow/mad, Logan, Rhea, Griggs, etc). By doing this, you are erasing their truth and reality from Lordran and filling it with your own.

Once you fill all of Lordran with your will and make the world your own, you kill Gwyn and merge his projected reality with your constructed reality to form a new reality, voided and distorted. You create a new world by killing Gwyn and then lighting the fire. Gwyn is the projected reality, that you seize to make your own. Then reality takes on the form you project form your own mind, influenced by Gwyn.

I know this can be a bit confusing and hard to follow. I've been reading Foucalt, Freud, and Butler quite a lot recently and everything I read seemed to give me ideas that it all tied in with Dark Souls. I think From Software was thinking pretty deep when they made the game and the game has a lot of potential for interpretation. I think a lot of philosophers can easily work with the game and find a lot of deep meanings and enlightenment, as I have. Anyone else think this way?
The Judge, Jury, and Executioner

User Info: SymphonicRain

4 years ago#2
Stop asking if you're the only one, please.
"invade some poor sap and jihad bomb him" - LazyKenny

User Info: Purification

4 years ago#3
I'm trying to have a discussion. Fine, do you have a better idea for a title?

Also, I think this is legit.....unless someone tells me they were thinking this exact concept as me (honestly).
The Judge, Jury, and Executioner

User Info: SymphonicRain

4 years ago#4
"Theory on Gwyn" "Gwyn ideas" "Come discuss Gwyn" "Gwyn thread 2: Electric Boogaloo" anything, really. Except "Am I the only one" followed by anything else.
"invade some poor sap and jihad bomb him" - LazyKenny

User Info: Growshroom

4 years ago#5
What about the Dark Lord ending?
+50 HP
Shoot the mask to hear more

User Info: Mosgus

4 years ago#6
You can definitely make parallels with the game, the way it is presented, and indeed the way you can carry it out alongside what you said. I'd say that the notion is almost an inherent truth with how strongly the angle of rekindling the first flame being akin to "rebirth" is played out by the Godly-aligned NPCs of the game; not to mention the very good point of the temporal mess that is Lordran. No one could know for sure whose history is concrete besides the chosen undead, and the chosen undead only knows his or her own for sure by bringing it to fruition.

All that said, I don't know if I'd exactly say that level of analyzing is a hook toward which the developers were aiming, just given that the "story," while not without the potential to be ever-changing, has a seemingly finite amount of outcomes with the chosen undead either taking over Gwyn's place or ushering in the age of dark. We don't even have an option for if the chosen undead fails in his or her task; in any other game, this would be, to me, a simple fact that "losing" means game over. There is no need for any "story" to be developed to that end. In DkS, however, it is almost damning. There is no "what if" for that scenario; as if the chosen undead is destined beyond destiny to not only carry out his or her task, but to always succeed with no degree of uncertainty.

Lordran's story is convoluted and hardly ever completely certain, but that one facet seems to be, and that's the one thing I'd say is the strongest case to argue against the one you've presented.

That's not to say it's not without merit, and Word of God (whatever From's take on the matter would be) could easily undermine any point I've made against it. I personally found it a pretty tasty intellectual snack to chew on myself. I really do enjoy such meanderings and I look forward to any points you'd like to raise after this.

User Info: Renegade

4 years ago#7
Stopped reading at Anti-Positivist Logic.

No. []
What are YOU playing?

User Info: szathmab

4 years ago#8
Way to much reading. ...
Please call me HK
A little effort here and there will serve you well, princess.

User Info: Number4Rocket

4 years ago#9
It is not confusing, rather it is inane. This level of analysis yields no important or meaningful insights, nor is it substantiated by anything. It is just the work of a wandering mind.

If others don't stop at "anti-positivist logic", they should.

User Info: Titanite-Demon

4 years ago#10
Armed to the teeth with energy cannons, katanas and assault rifles...
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