MK8 Accused of Racism, Poor Sales Potential, and Ruining Battle Mode

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User Info: Vyers

Vyers
3 years ago#41
Terotrous posted...
Vyers posted...
That's not what people are looking for, either. "Well, here's one or two games. You ever play Punch-Out!!? Like, eight people are black in that game!" The suggestion that that is adequate puts characters like Doc Louis in the token category. Nintendo has hardly any (if any) black protagonists, and it should be acknowledged as a problem.

I really don't follow how this makes Doc Louis a token character, Punch-Out is very mixed between different races (much like real boxing), none of them appear to have been put in just to appease people.

Doc Louis also isn't treated in any special way because he's black. He's one of the most positively portrayed characters in the series, but he's still frequently the butt of jokes (as is everyone else).


It's a token game. Just like the token black that people point at to say "see? There's your representation," people point at Punnch-Out!! and say "see? There's your game." This requires of course that the people who want better black representation also like Punch-Out!!. If someone wants to see it in a 2D platformer, what good does this boxing game do for them? The idea that they should be satisfied with it is an idea that only further implies that they don't want black characters for themselves but in fact tokenism.
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User Info: Cubfan082

Cubfan082
3 years ago#42
Vyers posted...
It's clearly not token diversity that people are looking for. People are asking that Nintendo acknowledge that there are more types of races than white people and Asian people.

Also, I would hardly say that FE:A tackled sexual orientation. There's a single character who is vaguely, possibly bisexual. They certainly never declare her as such, just implications.


what you want is pandering, not diversity. You want Poochy shoved into Itchy and Scratchy...
Regarding teaching pigs to sing: "It wastes your time and annoys the pig" ~Mark Twain

User Info: Vyers

Vyers
3 years ago#43
Felix6464 posted...
Vyers posted...
That's not what people are looking for, either. "Well, here's one or two games. You ever play Punch-Out!!? Like, eight people are black in that game!" The suggestion that that is adequate puts characters like Doc Louis in the token category. Nintendo has hardly any (if any) black protagonists, and it should be acknowledged as a problem.


And yet, you'd rather have black toads in this game, despite how not only would they would have less importance than Doc, but has a much better chance of gaining controversy.


1. Anyone who gets upset over the presence of a black Toad really needs to check their priorities.

2. Not for tokenism. The inclusion of black Toads in a Mario game would do nothing more than serve as acknowledgment of the existence of black people by Nintendo. There is value to that which goes far beyond mere tokenism.
Couple o' YouTube channels. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheNegativeHippie http://www.youtube.com/user/ThankTheBear

User Info: Terotrous

Terotrous
3 years ago#44
Vyers posted...
It's a token game.

Except that it's obviously not. You're honestly trying to argue that the reason Punch-Out was created was because Nintendo felt they needed more racial diversity in its gaming catalog? It was the 80s, no one cared about political correctness back then. The characters in Punch-Out are drawn from all over the world because it gave them more personality, which was very important in a game that was about reading the tells of your opponents.
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User Info: Vyers

Vyers
3 years ago#45
Cubfan082 posted...
Vyers posted...
It's clearly not token diversity that people are looking for. People are asking that Nintendo acknowledge that there are more types of races than white people and Asian people.

Also, I would hardly say that FE:A tackled sexual orientation. There's a single character who is vaguely, possibly bisexual. They certainly never declare her as such, just implications.


what you want is pandering, not diversity. You want Poochy shoved into Itchy and Scratchy...


As a matter of indisputable fact, it can't be pandering. To pander would be to make a game especially for black people. No matter what, black people are going to be grossly under-represented in Nintendo games, even if Nintendo did make an effort to increase black representation. What logical-thinking black person would feel pandered-to by this?
Couple o' YouTube channels. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheNegativeHippie http://www.youtube.com/user/ThankTheBear

User Info: Vyers

Vyers
3 years ago#46
Terotrous posted...
Vyers posted...
It's a token game.

Except that it's obviously not. You're honestly trying to argue that the reason Punch-Out was created was because Nintendo felt they needed more racial diversity in its gaming catalog? It was the 80s, no one cared about political correctness back then. The characters in Punch-Out are drawn from all over the world because it gave them more personality, which was very important in a game that was about reading the tells of your opponents.


A token black character is literally only one thing - a character who has no qualities beyond the fact that he or she is black. So yes, if Nintendo is bad at what they do, he or she would become a token black character. If they are good, then he or she won't. It's that simple. You're basically assuming that Nintendo is too incompetent to do it, if you assume that the character will be a "token black character."

The term token black is something invented to keep representation of black people down. No one wants to be accused of putting a token black character in their work, so it creates a justification to not even try.
Couple o' YouTube channels. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheNegativeHippie http://www.youtube.com/user/ThankTheBear

User Info: Cubfan082

Cubfan082
3 years ago#47
Vyers posted...
Cubfan082 posted...
Vyers posted...
It's clearly not token diversity that people are looking for. People are asking that Nintendo acknowledge that there are more types of races than white people and Asian people.

Also, I would hardly say that FE:A tackled sexual orientation. There's a single character who is vaguely, possibly bisexual. They certainly never declare her as such, just implications.


what you want is pandering, not diversity. You want Poochy shoved into Itchy and Scratchy...


As a matter of indisputable fact, it can't be pandering. To pander would be to make a game especially for black people. No matter what, black people are going to be grossly under-represented in Nintendo games, even if Nintendo did make an effort to increase black representation. What logical-thinking black person would feel pandered-to by this?


yeah, no...

...pandering would be appropriate because the series would have to force in an irrelevant protagonist / antagonist because of articles like this, not because of organic creative ideas...
Regarding teaching pigs to sing: "It wastes your time and annoys the pig" ~Mark Twain

User Info: Terotrous

Terotrous
3 years ago#48
Vyers posted...
A token black character is literally only one thing - a character who has no qualities beyond the fact that he or she is black.

This is correct, which adding a black character to Mario Kart would be because they'd have to invent them just for this game and Mario Kart has no plot, so they'd end up being a flat character who exists just to diversify the roster. It's also clear that this does not apply to Punch-Out because all of the characters there have a lot of personality.


The term token black is something invented to keep representation of black people down. No one wants to be accused of putting a token black character in their work, so it creates a justification to not even try.

Uh, not really, it was created in response to viewer frustration that the only forms of diversity in TV shows were for minor characters.
http://www.backloggery.com/tero - My backloggery
http://whatliesbeyondnovel.blogspot.ca/ - My novel, updates weekly

User Info: Vyers

Vyers
3 years ago#49
There is no such thing as a token black character who isn't the product of bad design. Again, it's fine if you think that Nintendo is too poor a company to not make a token black character, but I think that they can because I'm a true Nintendo fan.

A token black character is only "token" if they are only represented by the fact that they are black. It is this way because otherwise, the term "token black" works as a great weapon to prevent blacks from gaining prominence in fiction.
Couple o' YouTube channels. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheNegativeHippie http://www.youtube.com/user/ThankTheBear

User Info: Ooseye

Ooseye
3 years ago#50
Terotrous posted...
Vyers posted...
A token black character is literally only one thing - a character who has no qualities beyond the fact that he or she is black.

This is correct, which adding a black character to Mario Kart would be because they'd have to invent them just for this game and Mario Kart has no plot, so they'd end up being a flat character who exists just to diversify the roster. It's also clear that this does not apply to Punch-Out because all of the characters there have a lot of personality.


The term token black is something invented to keep representation of black people down. No one wants to be accused of putting a token black character in their work, so it creates a justification to not even try.

Uh, not really, it was created in response to viewer frustration that the only forms of diversity in TV shows were for minor characters.


Don't argue with Vyers. He thinks BET is giving the black community a voice. He has to be trolling.
PLAYING: Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, Picross e4 & Shadows of the Damned
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