At this point Nintendo should let FromSoft do the next Zelda game

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User Info: n00bsaib0t

n00bsaib0t
4 months ago#51
Zero_Maniac posted...
n00bsaib0t posted...
King_Nintendo85 posted...
BOTW isn't even a true Zelda game. Even Hyrule Warriors has more of the Zelda Spirit than BOTW.

With BOTW, Nintendo wanting to cash in on the "open-world sandbox" fad basically made a clone of the most popular sandbox games out right now(Skyrim, Witcher, Minecraft etc) and slapped "Zelda" on the box to make extra money.

That's exactly what someone that never played the original Legend of Zelda would think.

Not really. I own the original LoZ and have played through most of it, and I can still admit that BotW is very different from it. The original LoZ didn't have a durability ('scuse me, fragility) mechanic to force you to use a bunch of different weapons that you may not want to use at all due to appearance or functionality. In the original LoZ, the items you got hidden in dungeons felt special because there's only one of that item in the game, unlike BotW where the only unique weapon is the Master Sword...which needs to be recharged due to the aforementioned durability mechanic.

BotW also has significantly less dungeons than LoZ, as it only has 4 compared to LoZ's 8. No, shrines aren't dungeons. The point is, the differences are there.

Literally none of those gave anything to do with the open world sand box.

LOZ has 9 dungeons, which are shorter than most of the shrines. Durability was in OoT, well before any of those other games. Let's not ignore the Giants Knife.
Steam/XBL/PSN/EU NNID - Nifterific | US NNID & Nintendo Account - n00bsaib0t
EU Nintendo Account - n00b_saib0t | SFV: Balrog | MKX: Sun God Kotal Kahn

User Info: Zero_Maniac

Zero_Maniac
4 months ago#52
n00bsaib0t posted...
Literally none of those gave anything to do with the open world sand box.

I'm not contending as to whether or not it's an open world sandbox (it is regardless), but I am contending as to whether or not it can be considered a true Zelda game.

n00bsaib0t posted...
LOZ has 9 dungeons, which are shorter than most of the shrines.

Irrelevant. NES cart size limited the amount of stuff that could be put into games. There are 9 dungeons in LoZ with no mini-dungeons that I remember. BotW has only 4 real dungeons.

n00bsaib0t posted...
Durability was in OoT, well before any of those other games. Let's not ignore the Giants Knife.

You're conveniently leaving out the part where you can get an upgrade to this, the Biggoron's Sword, that does not break at all. The same cannot be said about BotW. In BotW, every weapon degrades in some manner.
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."

User Info: macknifficent89

macknifficent89
4 months ago#53
no.

User Info: yahya_no_1

yahya_no_1
4 months ago#54
macknifficent89 posted...
no.

Yes

And for the dude hating on TP, I will always defend TP, the only flaw that game had was the side quests being almost useless as they were all just money you don't need

WiiU remake made it better with those silly stickers but hey......it's better than nothing I guess

Actually, speaking of TP, I think this is as good as a Zelda game got before Nintendo started losing it, also why they never spent the extra money to make TO HD as good as the WW HD I will never understand, no one bought it as they didn't see BIG difference past the same game they can buy for cheaper


Back to topic, this Zelda isn't as pushing as casuals think, I spent 18+ hours on 3 hearts traveled to 80 % of the maps and only leveled up stamina(ofc for master sword I got the 13 hearts later on ), most monsters I found after upgrading take 9 hearts at best, and takes so long to heal, might as well just fairy farm and fight anyone you want

Also they contradicted something from OOT if I believe, as Master Sword is well known to never break and the only way to beat the darkness, but I guess this game just rewrote that
PSN:yahyano1

User Info: n00bsaib0t

n00bsaib0t
4 months ago#55
Zero_Maniac posted...
n00bsaib0t posted...
Literally none of those gave anything to do with the open world sand box.

I'm not contending as to whether or not it's an open world sandbox (it is regardless), but I am contending as to whether or not it can be considered a true Zelda game.

n00bsaib0t posted...
LOZ has 9 dungeons, which are shorter than most of the shrines.

Irrelevant. NES cart size limited the amount of stuff that could be put into games. There are 9 dungeons in LoZ with no mini-dungeons that I remember. BotW has only 4 real dungeons.

n00bsaib0t posted...
Durability was in OoT, well before any of those other games. Let's not ignore the Giants Knife.

You're conveniently leaving out the part where you can get an upgrade to this, the Biggoron's Sword, that does not break at all. The same cannot be said about BotW. In BotW, every weapon degrades in some manner.

He said BOTW copied the open world style from other games, I said it was reused from Zelda 1. Why are you bringing any of this up in response to that?

How is the castle not like one of the dungeons? It's large, has its own map, multiple floors, an exclusive item (Hylian Shield), and, depending on your progress, multiple boss fights. BOTW very much has 5 dungeons if you don't count the shrines. The shrines absolutely count, though. Enemies, items, puzzles, how are they not?

And the Biggoron Sword is 100% irrlevant to the fact that durability was not borrowed from any of the games you listed. You're trying to debate something I never said. Yes, you can get a two handed unbreakable sword. BOTW still didn't borrow durability from another franchise.
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User Info: Zero_Maniac

Zero_Maniac
4 months ago#56
n00bsaib0t posted...
How is the castle not like one of the dungeons? It's large, has its own map, multiple floors, an exclusive item (Hylian Shield), and, depending on your progress, multiple boss fights. BOTW very much has 5 dungeons if you don't count the shrines. The shrines absolutely count, though. Enemies, items, puzzles, how are they not?

5 dungeons, then. And no, shrines don't count because they are repetitive. Zelda has been good because it has a number of fully fleshed out dungeons to explore/test the player/give them an item. If you spread out the experience of a few quality dungeons over 120 really small dungeons, they become significantly less meaningful and fun. Also, ever source I've seen refers to them as mini-dungeons and not just "dungeons".

n00bsaib0t posted...
And the Biggoron Sword is 100% irrlevant to the fact that durability was not borrowed from any of the games you listed.

I didn't mention those games, the other guy did. Please don't mistake us for each other. And yeah, it actually is relevant. BotW's durability wasn't borrowed from OoT. The durability system in OoT was for one single weapon that could be replaced by an unbreakable weapon. BotW (and other similar games like Dark Souls) has a durability system that expands to everything in a player's arsenal. Do you really think that, without the advent of Skyrim and Dark Souls, Nintendo still would have made an open world game with a durability system? I doubt it.

Both Skyrim and the original Dark Souls (not the Prepare to Die Edition) were released in 2011. 2011 is also the same year Skyward Sword released, and the same year Nintendo would've started thinking about ideas for Breath of the Wild. Nintendo looked at the games that became hits, and took ideas from them. It's a logical thing to do, even if not creative.

The reason people never mention the durability mechanic in OoT is because only people who like to cherrypick such as you care about it. It's not prevalent, and so no one cares (or at least no one should care). People mention the durability mechanic in BotW as a complaint because it is prevalent. Why is it prevalent? Well, it's only logical to assume it came from not Nintendo's heads. Literally no other game made by them has had this durability system. Gee, I wonder what could've inspired them...?
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."

User Info: n00bsaib0t

n00bsaib0t
4 months ago#57
Zero_Maniac posted...
n00bsaib0t posted...
How is the castle not like one of the dungeons? It's large, has its own map, multiple floors, an exclusive item (Hylian Shield), and, depending on your progress, multiple boss fights. BOTW very much has 5 dungeons if you don't count the shrines. The shrines absolutely count, though. Enemies, items, puzzles, how are they not?

5 dungeons, then. And no, shrines don't count because they are repetitive. Zelda has been good because it has a number of fully fleshed out dungeons to explore/test the player/give them an item. If you spread out the experience of a few quality dungeons over 120 really small dungeons, they become significantly less meaningful and fun. Also, ever source I've seen refers to them as mini-dungeons and not just "dungeons".

n00bsaib0t posted...
And the Biggoron Sword is 100% irrlevant to the fact that durability was not borrowed from any of the games you listed.

I didn't mention those games, the other guy did. Please don't mistake us for each other. And yeah, it actually is relevant. BotW's durability wasn't borrowed from OoT. The durability system in OoT was for one single weapon that could be replaced by an unbreakable weapon. BotW (and other similar games like Dark Souls) has a durability system that expands to everything in a player's arsenal. Do you really think that, without the advent of Skyrim and Dark Souls, Nintendo still would have made an open world game with a durability system? I doubt it.

Both Skyrim and the original Dark Souls (not the Prepare to Die Edition) were released in 2011. 2011 is also the same year Skyward Sword released, and the same year Nintendo would've started thinking about ideas for Breath of the Wild. Nintendo looked at the games that became hits, and took ideas from them. It's a logical thing to do, even if not creative.

The reason people never mention the durability mechanic in OoT is because only people who like to cherrypick such as you care about it. It's not prevalent, and so no one cares (or at least no one should care). People mention the durability mechanic in BotW as a complaint because it is prevalent. Why is it prevalent? Well, it's only logical to assume it came from not Nintendo's heads. Literally no other game made by them has had this durability system. Gee, I wonder what could've inspired them...?

How does being repetitive make the shrines less of a dungeon? "This dungeon is repetitive therefore it is not a dungeon" just doesn't work, especially when you consider how ridiculously repetitive the Divine Beasts are. You literally solve the puzzles in all 4 the exact same way, then have an elemental boss fight. If we use your logic there is now 1 dungeon in BOTW, Hyrule Castle. Quality doesn't determine quantity, if anything the quantity of dungeons in BOTW had a negative impact on what we got. That's a far better argument than yours and one I'll personally stand by. BOTW has 124 bad to mediocre dungeons and one good one.

As for durability, do you think that other games would have durability if someone else didn't do it first? You brought up Skyward Sword releasing the same year as Dark Souls and Skyrim, you know Skyward Sword has a durability system in place, right? Nintendo is expanding on concepts they used before, not blatantly taking them from other franchises. At least not in the case of BOTW.
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User Info: macknifficent89

macknifficent89
4 months ago#58
yahya_no_1 posted...
macknifficent89 posted...
no.

Yes

but no.

User Info: Zero_Maniac

Zero_Maniac
4 months ago#59
n00bsaib0t posted...

How does being repetitive make the shrines less of a dungeon? "This dungeon is repetitive therefore it is not a dungeon" just doesn't work, especially when you consider how ridiculously repetitive the Divine Beasts are. You literally solve the puzzles in all 4 the exact same way, then have an elemental boss fight. If we use your logic there is now 1 dungeon in BOTW, Hyrule Castle. Quality doesn't determine quantity, if anything the quantity of dungeons in BOTW had a negative impact on what we got. That's a far better argument than yours and one I'll personally stand by. BOTW has 124 bad to mediocre dungeons and one good one.

Actually, my argument is about their relative lengths when compared to the real dungeons. Would you consider the Bottom of the Well from Ocarina of Time to be a dungeon too? I wouldn't. You don't even get a heart container from beating it.

n00bsaib0t posted...
As for durability, do you think that other games would have durability if someone else didn't do it first? You brought up Skyward Sword releasing the same year as Dark Souls and Skyrim, you know Skyward Sword has a durability system in place, right? Nintendo is expanding on concepts they used before, not blatantly taking them from other franchises. At least not in the case of BOTW.

Skyward Sword only had a durability system with the shields (which is part of why I hate it, and why a lot of other people hate it despite its critical acclaim). Also, durability systems in games was getting popular a bit before SS released too. Demon's Souls in '09, Fallout 3 in '08, Oblivion in '06...They definitely decided to dip their toes into durability with Skyward Sword, and then went all the way in BotW. Nintendo does not develop games in a metaphorical vacuum. They look at the success of other titles and determine what they think caused them to be successful. That's how business works. Heck, that's how the world works.

If you're the owner of a company, and you see another company in the same industry being successful, you will attempt to deduce why they are being successful and copy some of what they're doing (without infringing on copyright of course) if you're a competent business owner. This is why Nintendo decided to make the next Zelda game open world, have a dedicated jump button, have durability, and all the other common aspects of modern open world games. They didn't do it to "return to their roots". They did it because open world is now popular with gamers (for whatever reason), and it just so happens that there are a few (not as many as people make it out to be) parallels between BotW and the original LoZ. Nintendo used this to their advantage, being all like "Yes! We do care about fans of the original Zelda! See, we're going back to our roots, just like you've been asking for all this time, because we care!"
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."

User Info: RahzarX

RahzarX
4 months ago#60
Torgo posted...
Actually, Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild is nothing short of amazing.

If you like Dark Souls, enjoy Dark Souls...if games like Zelda: Breath of the Wild that require some inventory management are too complicated, then play an EA or Ubisoft game.


lol what? Souls requires way more inventory management than any Zelda game
whythefat "DDR, I notice your karma is 567. That 5+6+7= 18. 18 plus your IQ is 19. There were 19 hijackers on 911. You are a terrorist."
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