At this point Nintendo should let FromSoft do the next Zelda game

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User Info: n00bsaib0t

n00bsaib0t
4 months ago#61
Zero_Maniac posted...
Actually, my argument is about their relative lengths when compared to the real dungeons. Would you consider the Bottom of the Well from Ocarina of Time to be a dungeon too? I wouldn't. You don't even get a heart container from beating it.

Actually, yes. I also consider getting Bow Wow in Link's Awakening to be a dungeon. Also, would you argue that the Color Dungeon in LADX isn't a dungeon because you don't get a heart container from it? Where do you draw the line there. The reward for the Bottom of the Well is the Lens of Truth and getting a better Tunic as to what is and isn't a dungeon?

Zero_Maniac posted...
Skyward Sword only had a durability system with the shields (which is part of why I hate it, and why a lot of other people hate it despite its critical acclaim). Also, durability systems in games was getting popular a bit before SS released too. Demon's Souls in '09, Fallout 3 in '08, Oblivion in '06...They definitely decided to dip their toes into durability with Skyward Sword, and then went all the way in BotW. Nintendo does not develop games in a metaphorical vacuum. They look at the success of other titles and determine what they think caused them to be successful. That's how business works. Heck, that's how the world works.

If you're the owner of a company, and you see another company in the same industry being successful, you will attempt to deduce why they are being successful and copy some of what they're doing (without infringing on copyright of course) if you're a competent business owner. This is why Nintendo decided to make the next Zelda game open world, have a dedicated jump button, have durability, and all the other common aspects of modern open world games. They didn't do it to "return to their roots". They did it because open world is now popular with gamers (for whatever reason), and it just so happens that there are a few (not as many as people make it out to be) parallels between BotW and the original LoZ. Nintendo used this to their advantage, being all like "Yes! We do care about fans of the original Zelda! See, we're going back to our roots, just like you've been asking for all this time, because we care!"

Of course, and no doubt to a certain extent they looked at those other games and how they handled durability, which is a testament to how Nintendo could utterly f*** it up like they did. It's still a pre-existing concept within the Zelda universe.

The jumping concept was used before as well. In the GB/C/A games it's from a dungeon item, but in Adventure of Link there is just a dedicated jump button. It's something Link can do whenever he pleases, just like BOTW. Again, fine tuning the mechanic by looking at how other games did it doesn't mean it was new to BOTW because of those other games. The concept did already exist within the Zelda universe.

It's also possible to go back to your roots because something has been popularized. Gaming wasn't what it is today when companies were trying out the open world concept. For all the things LOZ helped introduce, hardware limitations made the game cryptic and lack direction even with the hints available. This is why the first two games were open world and why they moved to the "guided tour" method we saw in pretty much everything until ALBW. Yes, ALBW was open world as well. Zelda as a series is returning to it, it wasn't just a choice for BOTW. You honestly think they weren't looking at those other games and thinking "this franchise put open world on the map, let's show everyone how it's done!" when they made ALBW and BOTW? Of course they were. Whether or not they succeeded is a matter of opinion, but lets be real. Egos are a thing and Nintendo as a whole is full of people with huge ones. We would not have seen BOTW as it is right now without LOZ and AOL being open world.
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User Info: Rafficus_III

Rafficus_III
4 months ago#62
No. If you like the Souls series, cool, but leave Zelda alone. It's a fantastic franchise on it's own. The last thing I want to do is roll around twenty times, backstab, and repeat.
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User Info: Zero_Maniac

Zero_Maniac
4 months ago#63
n00bsaib0t posted...
Actually, yes. I also consider getting Bow Wow in Link's Awakening to be a dungeon. Also, would you argue that the Color Dungeon in LADX isn't a dungeon because you don't get a heart container from it? Where do you draw the line there. The reward for the Bottom of the Well is the Lens of Truth and getting a better Tunic as to what is and isn't a dungeon?

Well, every source describes Bottom of the Well as a mini-dungeon which is by definition not the same as a dungeon, so...

n00bsaib0t posted...
We would not have seen BOTW as it is right now without LOZ and AOL being open world.

AoL isn't open world, though. Also, we probably would. Nintendo may be somewhat slow on certain things, but they know how to get on a bandwagon in their own way in order to make money. Look at amiibos.

n00bsaib0t posted...
The jumping concept was used before as well.

Not in a 3D game. In the games not titled "Adventure of Link", the jumping mechanic is relegated to an item you equip like you said, which also keeps it from being quite the same as it is in BotW. And in Adventure of Link, jumping as put in because it's hard to make a 2D platformer without a dedicated jumping button.

Anyway, my original point still stands. Just because the guy said what he did does not mean he never played/beat the original Zelda game.
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."

User Info: n00bsaib0t

n00bsaib0t
4 months ago#64
How is AOL not open world? You can do it in any order just like LOZ.

And again, AOL shows the concept was there for jumping in Zelda. I never said BOTW was the same, just that the concept was used before.
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User Info: Zero_Maniac

Zero_Maniac
4 months ago#65
n00bsaib0t posted...
How is AOL not open world? You can do it in any order just like LOZ.

Doing game events in any order =! open world.

Here's a definition of open world:

"video games where a player can move freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in regard to how and when to approach particular objectives, as opposed to other video games that have a more linear structure to their gameplay."

I haven't played too much of Zelda II, but I do know that in the beginning there are boulders blocking your way in at least 2 places. If you can't go everywhere on the map from the very start, it's probably not an open world game. Every Elder Scrolls game I've played lets you go anywhere on the map you're in from the get-go, and same with Fallout, and even Assassin's Creed, as you can in fact go everywhere on the map you're currently in from the moment you get there, it's just that there are multiple maps.
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
Questionmarktarius 4 months ago#66
Zero_Maniac posted...
I haven't played too much of Zelda II, but I do know that in the beginning there are boulders blocking your way in at least 2 places.

You can go pretty much anywhere you want on the western half, immediately, but it involves a lot of dark caves. The boulders are just shortcuts, after going around the long way at least once.

User Info: n00bsaib0t

n00bsaib0t
4 months ago#67
Zero_Maniac posted...
n00bsaib0t posted...
How is AOL not open world? You can do it in any order just like LOZ.

Doing game events in any order =! open world.

Here's a definition of open world:

"video games where a player can move freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in regard to how and when to approach particular objectives, as opposed to other video games that have a more linear structure to their gameplay."

I haven't played too much of Zelda II, but I do know that in the beginning there are boulders blocking your way in at least 2 places. If you can't go everywhere on the map from the very start, it's probably not an open world game. Every Elder Scrolls game I've played lets you go anywhere on the map you're in from the get-go, and same with Fallout, and even Assassin's Creed, as you can in fact go everywhere on the map you're currently in from the moment you get there, it's just that there are multiple maps.

So BOTW isn't open world since you need the paraglider to get off of the Great Plateau.
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User Info: Zero_Maniac

Zero_Maniac
4 months ago#68
n00bsaib0t posted...
Zero_Maniac posted...
n00bsaib0t posted...
How is AOL not open world? You can do it in any order just like LOZ.

Doing game events in any order =! open world.

Here's a definition of open world:

"video games where a player can move freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in regard to how and when to approach particular objectives, as opposed to other video games that have a more linear structure to their gameplay."

I haven't played too much of Zelda II, but I do know that in the beginning there are boulders blocking your way in at least 2 places. If you can't go everywhere on the map from the very start, it's probably not an open world game. Every Elder Scrolls game I've played lets you go anywhere on the map you're in from the get-go, and same with Fallout, and even Assassin's Creed, as you can in fact go everywhere on the map you're currently in from the moment you get there, it's just that there are multiple maps.

So BOTW isn't open world since you need the paraglider to get off of the Great Plateau.

Pretty sure you get the paraglider pretty soon after you start the game, and then you can go wherever. The fact that it limits you at the very start could be considered a flaw by some, but I don't think that keeps it from being considered open world. Open world games can have aspects of linearity and still be considered open world. Even in those other games I mentioned, there is some linearity before you can go everywhere. Maybe I should have been more clear: by "from the get-go", I mean after the opening/prologue.

In Zelda 2, the prologue is like a few seconds long from what I remember. You get the back story, then you're in the game and aren't on rails. You still can't quite go everywhere, though. You don't get as much freedom as in LoZ.
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."

User Info: n00bsaib0t

n00bsaib0t
4 months ago#69
Zero_Maniac posted...
n00bsaib0t posted...
Zero_Maniac posted...
n00bsaib0t posted...
How is AOL not open world? You can do it in any order just like LOZ.

Doing game events in any order =! open world.

Here's a definition of open world:

"video games where a player can move freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in regard to how and when to approach particular objectives, as opposed to other video games that have a more linear structure to their gameplay."

I haven't played too much of Zelda II, but I do know that in the beginning there are boulders blocking your way in at least 2 places. If you can't go everywhere on the map from the very start, it's probably not an open world game. Every Elder Scrolls game I've played lets you go anywhere on the map you're in from the get-go, and same with Fallout, and even Assassin's Creed, as you can in fact go everywhere on the map you're currently in from the moment you get there, it's just that there are multiple maps.

So BOTW isn't open world since you need the paraglider to get off of the Great Plateau.

Pretty sure you get the paraglider pretty soon after you start the game, and then you can go wherever. The fact that it limits you at the very start could be considered a flaw by some, but I don't think that keeps it from being considered open world. Open world games can have aspects of linearity and still be considered open world. Even in those other games I mentioned, there is some linearity before you can go everywhere. Maybe I should have been more clear: by "from the get-go", I mean after the opening/prologue.

In Zelda 2, the prologue is like a few seconds long from what I remember. You get the back story, then you're in the game and aren't on rails. You still can't quite go everywhere, though. You don't get as much freedom as in LoZ.

Depending on your aptitude for this kind of game it could take you a few hours to get off the Great Plateau your first time around.

In Zelda 2 the boulders are just shortcuts. You can go right to what's on the other side by taking the long way with no prereqs, you just can't take the shortcut.

In LOZ you can't go everywhere from the start, you need the raft and ladder for that. It's still considered open world.

How is Zelda 2 less open from the start than BOTW when you can literally go anywhere in Zelda 2 but not in BOTW?
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User Info: yahya_no_1

yahya_no_1
4 months ago#70
macknifficent89 posted...
yahya_no_1 posted...
macknifficent89 posted...
no.

Yes

but no.



umm...actually Yes.


I don't know what people are arguing if Zelda 2, just like FF 1-9 games, you travel the world form town to town.........that for many people is open world, same with GTA 1 and 2.....the series that popularized the open world(they were not the first to do it though)

Also the stamina system is a clear borrow from Skyrim and DS games( more DS), you can love this game and over hype it all you want, but don't be in denial and say it didn't borrow elements from other games that are obviously there.


I just beat the hardest enemy in this game, took me 5 attempts, but just get 5+ strong weapons and time the the attacks to back flip them, repeated 16 times, you win........yaaay so much.....-_-

Also took on the yiga clan big sword guys, again Zelda games where never about difficulty per say, but this game tries to hard to be difficult in the most boring way, sponge enemies everywhere......sigh
PSN:yahyano1
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