Link is not an avatar. He has personality. He has character.

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  3. Link is not an avatar. He has personality. He has character.

User Info: Jakerific44

Jakerific44
1 year ago#171
pokemega32 posted...
Jakerific44 posted...
No, not at all. But if he was truly an avatar, then the way that Link would respond or the actions that you chose Link to perform would alter something in the game, and the way that most NPCs treat him in the long run. Not to mention, in games with a blank slate avatar, you can choose to be evil, yet for Link you cannot do so.


You have a very limited definition of an avatar.

Why is your definition dependent on how NPCs respond to you, and not actually on how much control you have over the the character?


Because the way that NPCs react to you shows that you have control over a character.
If I smash a pot in someone's home and they say nothing about it, then you don't have control over a character.
If I smash a pot in someone's home and they freak out and see you as a criminal for the rest of the game, then you do have control over a character.
This is an example, but there are tons of scenarios like this and Zelda falls into the former where you don't change anything because you are not Link.
Conversations are another example.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/HikariJake

User Info: mp443556

mp443556
1 year ago#172
Perhaps we can save some time if we came to some agreement about some discrete definition of what it means to be an avatar before we try to figure out whether or not Link is one.
"They have shown themselves to be that which they hate, that which they want to chase away out of the village." -- Jesse Ball

User Info: hop918

hop918
1 year ago#173
Jakerific44 posted...
I could make a game with the most complex of characters, and yet I could also claim that I meant for him to represent the player. Does that make it true? Of course it doesn't.


But that's the thing none of the Links are complex, most of the time they're given the bare minimum of a personality just so they don't look like robots as you're playing the game. Also like someone else said before most of their personalities come from the generic hero character, they don't stray much further than that. If you're going to tell me that that is what makes them one similar character, then I'm going to tell you they are the same as any generic hero character you can find. Hell half the stuff you mentioned earlier from what the Links have in common are personality traits that all Shonen protagonists share. If you were to list Links' common personality traits without telling someone who you were talking about, he could be mistaken for many different characters that fit what you were describing. I don't believe Link is fully an avatar, but I'm also not going to say he has a full developed personality that makes him or any of his others stand out as different from other hero characters.

User Info: Jakerific44

Jakerific44
1 year ago#174
mp443556 posted...
Perhaps we can save some time if we came to some agreement about some discrete definition of what it means to be an avatar before we try to figure out whether or not Link is one.


"an icon or figure representing a particular person in computer games, Internet forums, etc." - Google

Link is a character, and an icon that represents Link, not a 'particular person.'
http://myanimelist.net/profile/HikariJake

User Info: pokemega32

pokemega32
1 year ago#175
Jakerific44 posted...
Because the way that NPCs react to you shows that you have control over a character.
If I smash a pot in someone's home and they say nothing about it, then you don't have control over a character.
If I smash a pot in someone's home and they freak out and see you as a criminal for the rest of the game, then you do have control over a character.
This is an example, but there are tons of scenarios like this and Zelda falls into the former where you don't change anything because you are not Link.
Conversations are another example.


So the Pokemon protagonists aren't avatars either?
Currently playing: Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal
3DS FC: 0473-7780-2611 (IGN: Rivaille in X; Brendan in AS)

User Info: ZeroX91

ZeroX91
1 year ago#176
Jakerific44 posted...
ZeroX91 posted...
Jakerific44 posted...
And seriously, why are people only talking about the gender debate in this topic? Ffs, it wasn't even the focus of my original post.

So Ys is better than Zelda....just puttin it out there.


I've honestly never heard of it, but I like the artstyle. I'll have to look into it.

The first two games are rough and the only two you actually need to play in order, they were supposed to be a single game, can get most of them on steam or the psp/vita. Plot wise it's kinda like if you combined Zelda with The Odyssey.
In the time of chimpanzee's I was a monkey.

User Info: slaterastle

slaterastle
1 year ago#177
Did everyone forget how link and zelda have a thing in spirit tracks?
Ok whoever reported my topic we had a good conversation going on so screw you. A lot of people wrote very good things and now our work is dead. Smooth stuff man

User Info: Jakerific44

Jakerific44
1 year ago#178
pokemega32 posted...
Jakerific44 posted...
Because the way that NPCs react to you shows that you have control over a character.
If I smash a pot in someone's home and they say nothing about it, then you don't have control over a character.
If I smash a pot in someone's home and they freak out and see you as a criminal for the rest of the game, then you do have control over a character.
This is an example, but there are tons of scenarios like this and Zelda falls into the former where you don't change anything because you are not Link.
Conversations are another example.


So the Pokemon protagonists aren't avatars either?


This is a difficult one. In X and Y, you had a ton of customization of their appearance and from what I remember some over their relationships. Plus, they have no personality. Link, however, does.
In other games, it's true you cannot customize them. So... no, they wouldn't be much of an avatar. They are literally just a cardboard cutout, blank slate character.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/HikariJake

User Info: mp443556

mp443556
1 year ago#179
Jakerific44 posted...
mp443556 posted...
Perhaps we can save some time if we came to some agreement about some discrete definition of what it means to be an avatar before we try to figure out whether or not Link is one.


"an icon or figure representing a particular person in computer games, Internet forums, etc." - Google

Link is a character, and an icon that represents Link, not a 'particular person.'

That's not the definition we seem to be using though. If it was then it would be pretty cut and dry that Link is an avatar insofar that he is the vessel through which the player (i.e. any particular person) interacts with the game.
"They have shown themselves to be that which they hate, that which they want to chase away out of the village." -- Jesse Ball

User Info: Jakerific44

Jakerific44
1 year ago#180
slaterastle posted...
Did everyone forget how link and zelda have a thing in spirit tracks?


I've never played Spirit Tracks, but thank you for bringing that up.
Avatars do not have set relationships that the player cannot control. Characters, on the other hand, do.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/HikariJake
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