WotL mechanics

  • Topic Archived
You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.

User Info: ForteGSOmega

ForteGSOmega
5 years ago#1
Here's what I have so far.

Luck
As you've probably noticed, there's a new stat that can be increased/decreased by pills: Luck. When you start the game, it's at 0 (or -2 on the 7 Years Bad Luck challenge). As far as I can tell, it primarily affects item drops from clearing rooms/defeating enemies. For this, the actual value doesn't matter, only if it's negative, positive or 0. It looks like negative luck actually increases the chance of stuff to appear, but lowers their quality, although I'm really not sure.
The only thing the luck value directly affects is Tough Love, namely the appearance chance of the teeth when you fire a tear. The chance is 1/(10 - luck).
From 0 to 9 luck, the chances are:
10%, 11%, 12.5%, 14.3%, 16.7%, 20%, 25%, 33%, 50%, 100%

As you see, at lower levels, it doesn't scale very well and it takes 5 luck up pills until you double your tooth chance. Teeth do more than triple damage compared to normal tears (multiplier is 3.2).

Changes/Additions to the damage formula
I'll be referencing the normal BoI damage formula from the old topic:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/636662-the-binding-of-isaac/61654507

The only change to the old mechanics (at least of the raw damage) seems to be the razor, which now gets factored in later. (i.e. remove step 2 from the old formula)
First the new items that increase base damage:
Items that increase base damage by 0.5: Jesus Juice
Items that increase base damage by 0.3: Stigmata, SMB Super Fan!, MEAT!

Everything up until step 7 is the same in the calculation.
7. Damage = 3.5 * sqrt(1 + Base Damage * 1.2)
8. Damage is modified by Rage and Polyphemus

Rage Mechanics (Bloody Lust):
Rage starts at 1 and increases by 0.2 per kill and caps at 3. Damage is then multiplied by Rage.

Polyphemus
If you have Inner Eye or Mutant Spider: Increases damage by 5 (after Rage mechanics)
Otherwise: Increases damage by 4 and then multiplies it by 2

9. Damage = Damage * CharacterModifier
CharacterModifier:
Isaac: 1.0
Magdalena: 1.0
Cain: 1.2
Judas: 1.35
XXX: 1.05
Eve: 0.75
Samson: 1.0

10. Damage is Modified by Razor, Goat Hoof, Chemical Peel, Sacred Heart and Technology 2

Razor: Increases Damage by 35% per use. This is a small nerf; the old mechanics produced slightly higher numbers.
Goat Hoof(Trinket): Increases Damage by 2
Chemical Peel: Every second shot has its damage doubled.
Sacred Heart: Damage is first multiplied by 2.3, then increased by 1
Technology 2: Calculated damage up until now is decreased by 45%

11. The result is raw damage, it's further modified by Brimstone, the Tough Love teeth, etc.
"Naturally, I knows the hacker" - Kid, Ever17

User Info: ForteGSOmega

ForteGSOmega
5 years ago#2
Trinkets
Pinky Eye: 10% chance to fire a poison tear
Push Pin: 10% chance to fire a spectral tear
Libery Cap: When you enter a room, there is 25% chance that you get of these items while in that room: Compass(what?), Mini Mush, Odd Mushroom(thin), Odd Mushroom(large)
Curved Horn: Increases Speed by 15% (speed boosts stack additively)
Goat Hoof: Increases Damage by 2 (see above)

Whatever Mom's Pearl does:
It has a 10% chance of happening normally (when neither of the below is true)
It has a 15.63% chance of happening when playing as Eve
It has a 19% chance of happening when you have Mom's Pearl
It has a 55% chance of happening when you have The Mitre
There are interaction effects (i.e. when you play as Eve and have the Pearl, there's a different chance), but they're too minor to list.
I'm a bit lost on this one. The wiki lists Mom's Pearl as an occasional petrifier and The Mitre as something that increases chances for item rooms on the last levels; yet here they are in the same algorithm.

Cancer: Decreases Fire Delay by 2 (increases fire rate)
Red Patch: When hit, there's a 20% chance to increase razor uses by 3 (increases damage by 105%)
Isaac's Fork: 10% chance to heal 1/2 heart on hit
The Polaroid: Shield that lasts 150 time units (15 seconds?)
A Missing Page: 5% chance to use Death card when hit. 5%. Amazing.
Bloody Penny, Burnt Penny, Flat Penny, Counterfeit Penny: 50% chance to activate

Tick:
If enemy has more than 60 HP, decrease HP by 15%
Also, can't pick up other trinkets. And if you enter a boss room on the current level for the first time, you're healed by 1 heart?

I'm clueless about how exactly the pennies work.

Secrets
"Guppy's Hairball": Hold 3 of those items at once: Guppy, Guppy's Head, Guppy's Paw, Guppy's Tail

"A Forgotten Horseman": Not sure how to unlock, but it's bugged anyway.
It looks like this is supposed to unlock the Conquest Boss, but instead it's unlocked when you unlock Samson

"Something Icky": Supposed to unlock after beating Mom's Heart/It Lives 15 times, but is bugged?

"Platinum God": Bugged as well? I can see the picture in the game files, but there is no mention of it in the code.

Misc
IV Bag: On use: one coin (66%) or two coins (33%), +1 coin if you have PhD. I'm not sure how the "quality" of the coins is decided.
"Naturally, I knows the hacker" - Kid, Ever17

User Info: DiogenesKC

DiogenesKC
5 years ago#3
ForteGSOmega posted...
I'm a bit lost on this one. The wiki lists Mom's Pearl as an occasional petrifier and The Mitre as something that increases chances for item rooms on the last levels; yet here they are in the same algorithm.
I've never seen the pearl give a petrification effect. I'm guessing whoever added that had the 3 dollar bill and confused its random tear effect with the pearl.
I'm a member of the Midnight Crew
I'm a night owl, and a wise bird too

User Info: Chrono_Syndrome

Chrono_Syndrome
5 years ago#4
Not to avert you with random qustions, but still...
Is there any mechanical difference between Dead Dove and Spirit of Night ? Some hidden modifiers, may be ?
(and is it right, that Ouija Board now completely off, being rarer and much inferior ?)

User Info: RedIsPoetic

RedIsPoetic
5 years ago#5
I've been getting back into updates and was actually looking at the old topic yesterday and today, coincidentally. Awesome to see all the information on new mechanics!

Although this is a bit of a late question, is there any easy way to get exact health listings of every enemy?
Major Upcoming FAQ Projects: Paper Mario 3DS, New Super Mario Bros. 2, Fire Emblem: Kakusei

User Info: teffy

teffy
5 years ago#6
I believe Mom's Pearl increases the rate of items from the Mom's Itam list, as when I had it I got Mom's Shoes as a boss drop and Mom's Purse in the shop, both on the floor AFTER getting the Pearl.

This also may be supported by the Mitre giving items in lower levels (that 55% rate you mentioned.)
Sent from my iPhone via PowerFAQs 1.9

User Info: WazzupGenius00

WazzupGenius00
5 years ago#7
According to the 1.5 patch notes, some damage stuff got changed around so you may want to do a new analysis. Notably Bloody Lust seems to require more kills to get as strong as it used to.

User Info: ForteGSOmega

ForteGSOmega
5 years ago#8
According to the 1.5 patch notes, some damage stuff got changed around so you may want to do a new analysis. Notably Bloody Lust seems to require more kills to get as strong as it used to.


Yeah, but I'll wait a while until the updates stop and then post a 100% complete formula or else things are going to get very confusing very fast.
But what basically happened is that some things (most notably razor and rage) were moved to before step 7 (so that now rage is added to the base damage instead of multiplied). Bloody List still caps at 10 kills, but the multiplier for raw damage will turn out to be about 1.844 instead of 2.
Also, Bloody Lust now increases the size of the character with each kill. It looks like the size has no cap, so you could get quite big against enemy spawners.

Is there any mechanical difference between Dead Dove and Spirit of Night ? Some hidden modifiers, may be ?
(and is it right, that Ouija Board now completely off, being rarer and much inferior ?)


The only difference seems to be an aesthetic one. They do the exact same things.

Although this is a bit of a late question, is there any easy way to get exact health listings of every enemy?


I'm afraid not. The is a list of all HP values, but without names. I'd have to look at a value, its position in that list, look for the corresponding picture of the enemy and then look up its name.

I believe Mom's Pearl increases the rate of items from the Mom's Itam list, as when I had it I got Mom's Shoes as a boss drop and Mom's Purse in the shop, both on the floor AFTER getting the Pearl.


I'm still not sure what Mitre and the pearl do, but they both do the exact same thing and only that thing. So either both increase the rate of mom's items or both don't.

New stuff:
Alternative chapters/levels: Seems to be completely random. 50% chance for each level.

Curses
1. Base Chance is 1.25% and is replaced depending on which secrets you unlock.
The Womb unlocked: 3.33%
Everything is Terrible unlocked: 10%
At least one of the following unlocked: 20%
D20, The Crucifix, Abel, Curved Horn, Sacrificial Knife, Rainbow Baby, Bloody Penny

2. The game now uses the Base Chance to see if you'll get Curse of Labyrinth and if CoL can even be triggered, i.e. only on the first level of a chapter and not on Cathedral/Sheol.
3. If CoL is not triggered, New Chance = 2 * Base Chance is calculated.
4. Use New Chance to see if Curse of the Lost is triggered.
5. If CotL is not triggered, use New Chance again to see if Curse of Darkness is triggered.

Let's run some numbers, assuming that Base Chance is 20%.
CoL: 20%
CotL: 80% * 40% = 32%
CoD: 80% * 60% * 40% = 19.2%
No curse: 28.8%

Angel Room
First, a Devil Room door has to spawn.
Now, it looks like that room has a 50% chance to be Angel Room, but only if:
1. You have never made a deal with the devil in this playthrough.
2. The Devil Room door has spawned at least once before. (Using Joker, etc counts as well)
"Naturally, I knows the hacker" - Kid, Ever17

User Info: Sheoldred

Sheoldred
5 years ago#9
ForteGSOmega posted...
Angel Room
First, a Devil Room door has to spawn.
Now, it looks like that room has a 50% chance to be Angel Room, but only if:
1. You have never made a deal with the devil in this playthrough.
2. The Devil Room door has spawned at least once before. (Using Joker, etc counts as well)


That's interesting to know. I recently had a game where I got 4 Angel Rooms all in the same run. I thought maybe I picked up some kind of item that guaranteed only Angel Rooms and no Devil Rooms or something, but I guess it's not _too_ outlandish statistically as long as you don't make any deals.
CT Prerelease Speculation: http://blacktelomeres.webs.com/CT/prerelease.htm

User Info: ForteGSOmega

ForteGSOmega
5 years ago#10
Finally some item spawn mechanics. The following applies for item spawning after you've cleared the room.
Quick notes about some things: Luck is relevant for this part and, apart from Tough Love teeth, for this part only. This is also the only time Lucky Toe is relevant, while Lucky Foot has other uses.

Dropping Stuff
1. Check if the related trinkets activate:
Ace of Spades: 10% Chance to replace drop with a tarot card (80%) or a deck card (20%)
Child's Heart: 10% Chance to replace drop with a heart item
Matchstick: 10% Chance to replace drop with a bomb item
Rusted Key: 10% Chance to replace drop with a key (50%) or a golden chest (50%)
Safety Cap: 10% Chance to replace drop with a pill

Note: At least something has to drop for the trinkets to activate in step 3.

2. Check if Guppy's Tail activates (will override results of the above checks)
33% chance to drop a normal chest (50%) or a golden chest (50%), skip step 3
22% chance to drop nothing/prevent something from dropping
45% chance for nothing to happen. In that case, go to step 3

3. Check for normal drops.
Here's a handy table which outlines the chances for basic items:

http://pastebin.com/Hf6tMUhL

Behind the scenes (why trinkets etc have a crappy chance of dropping with max luck stuff):
The game picks a random decimal number x between 0 and 1.
For each luck factor, x is set to "0.9 * x + 0.1"
I.e. for 3 luck factors, the new x is "((0.9 * x + 0.1) * 0.9 + 0.1) * 0.9 + 0.1 = 0.729 * x + 0.271"
Now, x has to be between 0.22 and 0.3, which is only possible if the original x was 0.04 (4%)
If the x was in the correct range, there's a 33% chance each for a trinket/card/pill (which results in the 1.33%)

Item Quality
After the actual drop was determined, what's left is the quality.

Trinket: Equal chance for any yet (in this playthrough) unseen trinket. If you've already seen all trinkets, drop a card instead.
Card: 80% chance for a tarot card, 20% for a deck card.
Pill: Random

Coin: Normal coin, can be upgraded: 5% nickel, 1% dime
Key: Normal key, can be upgraded: 2% golden key
Chest: Always normal chest
Bomb: Normal bomb, can be "upgraded": 14.3% 1 + 1 free, 10% normal troll bomb, 2% super troll bomb

Heart:
1. Try to make it a soul heart:
It has a 10% chance of happening normally (when neither of the below is true)
It has a 15.63% chance of happening when playing as Eve
It has a 19% chance of happening when you have Mom's Pearl
It has a 55% chance of happening when you have The Mitre

2. If 1. failed, try to make it an eternal heart with a chance of 2%
3. If 2. failed, try to turn it into half a heart (yes, that's considered an upgrade) with a chance of 50%
4. If all of the above failed, a normal heart is dropped.

Reminder: Mom's Pearl and The Mitre do nothing else.

By the way, Isaac's Fork is processed around here as well, which means there's a 10% chance of recovering half a heart after clearing a room. I only saw the percentage and called it a day when checking the first time (I'll try not to blindly rely on the wiki in the future)

Edit: Forgot negative luck. That's behaving really strangely. After getting the x (from "behind the scenes"), it is decreased by luck * 0.1, which means it's actually increased (since luck is negative).
For the "bad luck" challenge, this means:
Chance of Nothing is decreased to 2% while chance for a normal chest is increased to 25% (without factoring in the luck factors etc).
That can't be intended.

Edit2: I left it out because the change is insignificant and would make the table confusing, but each level, key items get -1% chance while bombs get +1% chance
"Naturally, I knows the hacker" - Kid, Ever17

Report Message

Terms of Use Violations:

Etiquette Issues:

Notes (optional; required for "Other"):
Add user to Ignore List after reporting

Topic Sticky

You are not allowed to request a sticky.

  • Topic Archived