I don't understand the logic behind Lucifer being a controllable Persona

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User Info: darker95

darker95
4 years ago#31
Fourth_Bonkura posted...
KefkaesqueXIII posted...

Actually, Helel is Lucifer, it's just his name in Hebrew rather than Latin (both mean the same thing).


Yes but I'm not convinced that either was ever the devil or a fallen angel. This is the passage that talks about Helel/Lucifer

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2014&version=NIV

Isaiah 14

12
How you have fallen from heaven,
<u>morning star, son of the dawn!</u>
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

13
You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.

14
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”

15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.

16
Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,

17
the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?

It seems like he was literally a man, a king of Babylon and that the fall from heaven was metaphorical. Wikipedia seems to back me up on this. It looks like that was a later addition.


read these lucifer/helel means light bearer, bringer of light . the king of babylon could have been named lucifer or something that translate to son of dawn or lighter bearer. the only thing that confuses me is why out of all the fallen angels, why did satan change his name, was it a sign of him cutting his connection from god and throwing away the name he was given? idk!!
Rev 12:7
Isaiah 14
Ezekiel 28

Understand that there is no joy. Cry, that there is no eternal punishment! Where there are new fans, there is money. I, myself, cry for you humans!-Nyrathothep

User Info: Hitoshura_

Hitoshura_
4 years ago#32
I'll help shed some light on this Helel issue, since I am fluent in (modern) Hebrew.

In the vanilla Bible, Lucifer was called Helel Ben Shahar(Helel is pronnounced Hilel). Helel generally means praise, Ben Shahar means "Son of Dawn". That named appears only once(if I'm not mistaken) in the Bible, and it does not refer to a devil or an angel. The bible describes this Helel falling from the heavens, but it is actually a prophecy for the downfall of the king of Babylon.
When the Bible was translated the prophecy was mistaken to be a fallen angel, and so, Lucifer was born.
In Jewish mythology there is no "Lucifer", there is no ultimate evil that counterparts God - God is absolute, and Satan is one of it's underlings - it is a resentful angel that hates humans, and tests their loyalty to God.

So basically, Satan from SMT is the Jewish Satan, while Lucifer is the Christian Devil.
*is officially Hitoshura*
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