DEX or CON sheathe stone?

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User Info: pirateof7sea

pirateof7sea
5 years ago#11
Yeah, Kuchi, if for permanent sheathe stone for final equip set, with 4x DEX, that would be the best. I would prefer 2slot with dex last slot with Crit DMG unless there is a cap for crit dmg.

but for my stat, 1 dex = 5atk. maybe counted +30% atk inside. and it is a sure thing to get 5atk per dex for me after maximized +30% atk.

but to answer L3ugiM, who seem to be beginner who is in the beginning of farming these sheathe stones, he should try to get my suggested sheathe stone. cause we dont know whether he is using zen for some improvement of gameplay or not. and getting 28%dex for fairy skill are freaking hard.

for L3ugiM, farming legally for epic class, unless he is lucky to get 4x dex easily. otherwise he should go with hit/critdmg or eva sheathe stone which should give better outcome for earlier stages of abyss, surviving/killing rate should be higher with 3x crit rate/dmg/hit in comparison to 3x dex (if what squarepig said are true about eva and crit eva statements)
then eva sheathe stone can be replaced with dex.

to be honest, i played v1.0.1 with iapfree, i bought the box that gives epic class equipment, the chance of getting 4x+ sheath stone are like 1-2/100 combines. and usually get around 35 dex, and the chance of getting 3x crit rate/dmg/eva/hit are fairly easy in my experiences together with 3x dex. and chance of getting lv10 dex fairy skill is like 1 of 50 or more.

User Info: PolyhedralPig

PolyhedralPig
5 years ago#12
but for my stat, 1 dex = 5atk. maybe counted +30% atk inside. and it is a sure thing to get 5atk per dex for me after maximized +30% atk.

Of course, since (4)(1.3) = 5.2

he should try to get my suggested sheathe stone. cause we dont know whether he is using zen for some improvement of gameplay or not

I don't see how zen relates to sheathe stones.

for L3ugiM, farming legally for epic class, unless he is lucky to get 4x dex easily. otherwise he should go with hit/critdmg or eva sheathe stone which should give better outcome for earlier stages of abyss

For earlier stages of the Abyss? How is that going to help get better equipment? You can't get good endgame gear in the Abyss until past stage 20. Even if he can only get DEX + 3x, it will still help more than Hit/Evade/other stones (you can see the numbers in Kuchinatsu's post). And, as Kuchinatsu said, DEX stones also increase Attack more than other stones (except for Attack sheathe stones, which you shouldn't use anyway). Without endgame gear, and maybe even especially so, Bladers need DEX to get far in the Abyss (as well as some CON). Trading DEX for stones that only raise one stat is a bad idea, whether or not it's endgame gear. Sticking to using 2 DEX : 1 CON is the best option, with maybe a few Movement Speed stones or HP/SP Absorb stones mixed in.
Zenonia 2 IGN: SquarePig (PvP Rank 1)
Zenonia 4 IGN: SquarePig (PvP Rank 9)

User Info: pirateof7sea

pirateof7sea
5 years ago#13
what i mean about the zen is that, it is really HARD to grind for epic class equipment from monster = HARD to get epic class sheathe stone especially if he is targeting 4x stat. so if he is using the zen to buy box that give epic class then different story. that is why i suggest to get 3x crit dmg/eva/hit cause i already explained in my post before that 3x dex without lv10fairy skill, the outcome really weaker than my suggestion.

for abyss, i did not mention that the equipment inside there in early stage are useful, DID I? since it is a 100% chance to get epic class equipment, it can be used for sheathe stone.

I also mention that **3x crit dmg are far stronger than just 5xx atk & a little bit of dex stones should be used** in my earlier post where you and kuchi failed to look through it(3x dex and 3x con have almost/same damage outcome, if crit dmg is 30 which mean better than 3x con's dmg = better dmg than 3x dex, you can try out yourself). as well as 3x eva since he MIGHT NOT be able to get 4x dex or lv10 fairy skill easily.

i also mentioned that the rate of getting 3x eva/crit blablabla stone are almost the same as 3x dex. which is why i suggest he get what i suggested first.

but mostly are depend on player's luck about getting epic class or 4x sheate stone/fairy's or whatever. its just like how you mention the pvp thing with luck(IIRC) in your thread which i can easily object against if i wish to, since it is all about luck that dont have a fix calculation.

lastly L3ugiM is ASKING FOR SUGGESTION NOT END-GAME THING which you and kuchi say like he is definitely targeting for end-game thing. also we dont know whether he is going for PvP or Abyss, it is just my imagination of he is going to abyss.

However I agreed with kuchi statement. End of story, ill no longer post anymore in this thread, feel free to state your statements.

User Info: Kuchinatsu

Kuchinatsu
5 years ago#14
pirateof7sea posted...
but for my stat, 1 dex = 5atk. maybe counted +30% atk inside. and it is a sure thing to get 5atk per dex for me after maximized +30% atk.

My bad, I forgot about that passive. Well, now that you mention it, let's factor it in.
Factoring in Forged Edge:
The DEX-44 one has ATK +7103
And DEX-35 would have ATK +5647

Thanks for making the benefit of adding DEX stones, even +3x ones, seem all that much better and thus strengthening our side of the argument. ;) In exchange, I'll point out that there are titles that boost CRIT/EVA by 10%, but they still lose to the legendary workhorse at level 99, so.......

pirateof7sea posted...
to be honest, i played v1.0.1 with iapfree, i bought the box that gives epic class equipment, the chance of getting 4x+ sheath stone are like 1-2/100 combines. and usually get around 35 dex

Usually around 35 DEX? That's fine and dandy. Look up to the DEX-35 stats listed at the end of the first post I've made in this thread, that's the effect of stacking DEX stones that average out to be +35 dex ones across the board.

pirateof7sea posted...
and getting 28%dex for fairy skill are freaking hard.

Moot point. I didn't factor any fairy stones into the calculations of these, whether they be max dex/con/crit/eva skill stones.

pirateof7sea posted...
surviving/killing rate should be higher with 3x crit rate/dmg/hit in comparison to 3x dex (if what squarepig said are true about eva and crit eva statements)
then eva sheathe stone can be replaced with dex.

Dex, Crit, C.Dmg, Hit? Alright, fair enough. Taking the previous simulation of relatively even distribution from the substat stone stacking, that frees up 11 slots for DEX. We'll work with +35 for dex, assuming the dex stones sheathed average out that way somehow.
DEX +442 [Legendary Workhorse, Dark Shadow, Forged Edge]...
ATK +2298
DEF +265
HIT +53.04
CRI +70.72
EVA +92.82
C.EVA +70.72
That's sixteen slots left. In some attempt to optimize things, let's opt for 2 HIT stones, 6 CRIT stones, and 8 C.Dmg stones, which give:
HIT +64
CRI +192
C.DMG +256
So the total boost for this design would be:
ATK +2298
DEF +265
HIT +117.04
CRI +262.72
EVA +92.82
C.EVA +70.72
C.DMG +256

So, in comparison to the DEX-35 build: The defense is lower, and while a sizable sum of EVA and C.EVA is added here, it's not enough to matter, bringing the two values up to 200 something. C. DMG is brought into the mid-high 200s, not much thanks to the blader's raw stats. The only real shining point would be CRI, which is pushed to 400 (but the difference with DEX-35 is still just 89.56 CRIT).

However, in terms of attack, this build's is roughly 40.7% of the DEX-35 one. But CRITs default to doing double the damage of normal attacks (4596 vs 11294)--that is to say, your raw attack stat is still the basis of your offensive power. C. DMG does not automatically boost damage for every CRIT, and, more importantly, C. DMG is not a damage multiplier. You may get anywhere from a few hundred to another thousand or two in terms of damage, but it won't make up for the inherit disparity in the attack stats.
Rubellite @ Gamevil Forums
Zenonia 4 Item Database :: Materials | Combine Scrolls | Set Bonuses

User Info: Kuchinatsu

Kuchinatsu
5 years ago#15
@pirateof7sea:

Sorry, took me a while to post up my reply, so I didn't see your most recent post until just now. Apologies for continuing despite you saying this post is your last...

If he relies on opening the chest to get sheathe stone fodder, that'll take a lot of ZEN, haha. Epics or not, the level 90+ equips, starting with the construct series, only pop up in stages 20 and higher of the Abyss though, unfortunately. Starting off, one's best bet is to actually hunt in Zerat's Castle for L96-99 epics.

The substat stones are much easier to come by than DEX ones, I agree, but that's due to sheer probability. Hit, Crit, C.DMG, [Eva, C.Eva]--that's anywhere from 3-5 stones that would be acceptable asides from CON, while other than CON & DEX a dex-based blader would just have to toss everything out as trash.

The thing with slotting equips so readily with the substat stones is that there's no guarantee that he'll come across another equipment anytime soon with good bonuses/multiple slots fit for optimization, whether it'd be for PvP or Abyss. While there's the whole it's-intermediate-gear-and-will-be-replaced-anyway-so-use-what-you-can thing, bladers are not reknowned for efficient farming tactics like that of rangers or druids. Adding those stones will definitely bring about a significant boost--I'm not a numbskull enough to deny that--but it will also phase out more quickly.

CON is impressive, that's a good point of yours, and I think we all agreed with that. Despite above calculations a sizable chunk of the equipment slots would be going away to CON anyway, regardless of what build players end up leaning to. But the benefits of CON stones are great even if they'd shift those numbers slightly. We're not denying that.

Admittedly, I only skimmed through your post the first time around so I didn't catch the part of placing a few DEX stones for attack until after I posted (and once again, I didn't catch this post until I posted the one above. Figures.)...amongst other details; my apologies for that. Rather than DEX though, I think in that case it'd actually be better to stack a couple more CON, to build on the momentum of the already higher CON stat (then again, it would depend on the ratio of CON to other stat stones).

The real question truly would be what one needs help with, huh? L3ugiM didn't state any specific intents and purposes, so I guess all these tangents of the discussion helped to cover the bases. Thanks for bringing up all these points to the table, even if you don't feel like continuing it. It's a topic that had conclusions long drawn but never discussed to any length, so it's cool you brought it up. ;)
Rubellite @ Gamevil Forums
Zenonia 4 Item Database :: Materials | Combine Scrolls | Set Bonuses
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