What is the difference between bard and MCH in terms lv60 and raid scene?

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  3. What is the difference between bard and MCH in terms lv60 and raid scene?

User Info: LostSoldier20

LostSoldier20
1 year ago#11
AuraBlaze1 posted...
Another difference is that you can place your turret close to whoever needs MP/TP whereas bards actually need to position themselves appropriately because the buff radius is based around themselves. Of course the turret can also die so that's something else you have to watch out for.


Well, if the people are out of range of Paeon/Ballad, they're probably not where they should be anyway.

Quiet_Noise posted...
In my opinion, BRD really does have the absolute lowest skill ceiling of all classes, and it's the class I main.


I'll never be able to agree to this when DRG is around. We just spam stuff on CD, essentially. Every other class has some sort of timer to manage. BotD is less managing more fire and forget, as you only care about it if it has over 20 seconds on the timer. Then all you're left with is a linear, unchanging rotation.

As for my own input on the topic: MCH really is higher risk, higher reward. But if you're good, that reward is huge. And unless you're running 2 mages, MCH will always beat out BRD. As a general playing, I find MCH much better and easier to use, because you don't have tons of cast times. But that comes down to preference.

For the high level, even more high risk high reward. I'd have to re-poll them, but all the MCHs I know say MCH is harder to play, mostly because of the Wildfire management. Getting the most out of your MCH is way harder to achieve, especially if you have to constantly rebuild your bot and have terrible memory to do this. (Does 11 kill it when he goes boat?)
TANK-GOON NEW META

User Info: Apl_J

Apl_J
1 year ago#12
BRD can debuff magic resist on all enemies, heal some status effects, can regen mp/tp, and can silence. Their single target playstyle revolves around keeping their 2 DoTs up at all times, preferably with their crit buffs up beforehand so they can keep using Bloodletter inbetween their regular rotation. Their multi-target rule of DoTs > everything is the same, except that you're now juggling DoTs on up to 3/4 targets at once and keeping it up. You pretty much stop using single target here, so its not quite as difficult as you might think. This allows you to use the weaker, yet AoE version of Bloodletter, Rain of Death, over and over as your DoTs crit and refresh it. Maximizing Bloodletter/Rain of Death uses is paramount if you want to play Bard. Bard is overall slower and arguably clunkier. They have to cast like a mage, but they rely on Bloodletter, which is meant to be used inbetween casts, which they don't really give you time to do cleanly. You always end up letting the global cooldown stall while you pop Bloodletter or a buff, and it really makes the job work against itself.

MCH does the same things, except it has a few more tools. They can't heal status effects, but they have a weaker, yet stackable version of Virus. They can debuff physical resist and magic resist too, and they can stun in addition to silence. Their single target playstyle is harder, whereas their multi target is much simpler than Bard. In Single target, your DPS is based on a single ability: Wildfire. All the abilities you gain are, for the most part, not used at all until Wildfire is ready to use, even if they're ready to use and Wildfire isn't; its that important, and yes, its that frustrating when you mess it up. In multitarget, MCH is relatively simple: ignore Wildfire (because its single target and thusly useless), and stack all your buffs while you use your AoE actions. Very simple. MCH is impacted less from movement, since most of their actions are classified as Abilities and they have a unique proc system that allows them to fire instantly with their main combo around half the time.

Overall, BRD is one of the easiest lv60 jobs to play, whereas MCH is one of the hardest if not THE hardest. Both are difficult in the same ways:
-Movement works against you. Breaking casts hurts your DPS.
-Heavy Ability use, by which I mean, most of your button presses occur during the half second after you finish casting and before you can start casting again.
-You are pseudo-support, so you need to be watching your team as well as the enemy. Allies should never have to ask you for something you should already be aware of.
-For MCH only: You need awareness of when the windows are. Optimally, you should never let Wildfire get interrupted. Its sort of like Eno/Ley, or Blood of the Dragon in the sense that, if you use it, you'd better be sure the boss wont jump away, go invincible, force you to dodge or move, or a high priority add doesn't pop and force you to switch targets.
Who are they to just take everything and hoard it?
Who am I that I can't get my portion?

User Info: Tucker_BA

Tucker_BA
1 year ago#13
IIRC BRD is going to be better for your party if you have more magic DPS. MCH on its own does more damage than BRD, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjD6wo9BIyM
Mch is slightly better in most situations imo, but at the cost of being much more difficult to play optimally.

The rooks physical damage up is probably more of a bonus for most parties than the bard's requiem is. The benefit of requiem is I'm pretty sure it has way more uptime, the downside is that in most groups it's probably being used by 1-3 people. Physical is basically almost always being used by 4+ at any moment.
Currently playing: DQ Heroes

User Info: princeTidus

princeTidus
1 year ago#15
both are ez, once you get the hang of it, and great dps. brd buff magic dps and mch physical. thats about it. level them both and enjoy them. they are similar in many ways.

ps; dont listen too much to ppl saying either are hard or ez. its just a matter of opinion. playing a class to its max potential is not trivial for any class, but once you get the hang of it, its ez.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/3154239/

User Info: GameplayZero

GameplayZero
1 year ago#16
princeTidus posted...
both are ez, once you get the hang of it, and great dps. brd buff magic dps and mch physical. thats about it. level them both and enjoy them. they are similar in many ways.

ps; dont listen too much to ppl saying either are hard or ez. its just a matter of opinion. playing a class to its max potential is not trivial for any class, but once you get the hang of it, its ez.


Its not a matter of opinion. It's pretty much fact that played optimally mch is one the hardest jobs in the game.

but for casual level play (which is what I assume you are talking about), then yes it doesn't matter. But this question is about the raid scene where it's something that needs to be mentioned. Of course it is easy once you get the hang of it. Any thing is if you master it. But there is still a learning curve IF you are actually trying to play optimally.

Especially figuring out what part of your rotation goes where in a fight. Something every job has to deal with no matter how hard or easy a job may be.

User Info: princeTidus

princeTidus
1 year ago#17
GameplayZero posted...
princeTidus posted...
both are ez, once you get the hang of it, and great dps. brd buff magic dps and mch physical. thats about it. level them both and enjoy them. they are similar in many ways.

ps; dont listen too much to ppl saying either are hard or ez. its just a matter of opinion. playing a class to its max potential is not trivial for any class, but once you get the hang of it, its ez.


Its not a matter of opinion. It's pretty much fact that played optimally mch is one the hardest jobs in the game.

but for casual level play (which is what I assume you are talking about), then yes it doesn't matter. But this question is about the raid scene where it's something that needs to be mentioned. Of course it is easy once you get the hang of it. Any thing is if you master it. But there is still a learning curve IF you are actually trying to play optimally.

Especially figuring out what part of your rotation goes where in a fight. Something every job has to deal with no matter how hard or easy a job may be.


It's a matter of opinion to me. I have a 495 brd and a 490 mch, which is definitely not the top, but its pretty high and I consider them about equal in terms of difficulty, if you want to min-max. Of course, that's after many hours of playing. In my opinion, people over exaggerate the difficulty of mch even in a raid scene. As for the TC, go for mch, is fun and really dynamic! Brd just a bit more static,I guess.

Anyway, nowadays its not much about how much you can stance dance as mch to get some more dps, or how much can you optimize your cds as brd/mch, its all about who gets the most balance. Is my 3K brd dps on A10 something incredible? Nah, just get a bunch of cards and you will be #1 or close to it as long as you play decently.

@TC, if you want to get good at mch read this: http://bit.ly/2fRGstE, pretty helpful stuff there.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/3154239/

User Info: tweaker1

tweaker1
1 year ago#18
I'm still so salty over Wanderer's Minuet. Why decided to force BRD into the same style as MCH is beyond me. I miss my unlimited mobility and my old AoE spams lol

I mained BRD all through 2.x, but it was a struggle to get it to 60. Switched over to WAR (change up my playstyle, as I had never previously played a Tank in any MMO), and NIN (love the versatility).

I haven't played MCH, but I can tell you this. Hope you don't get both a Bard AND a Machinist in tough 4 man content. Sucks bro

User Info: Dr_Mowinckel

Dr_Mowinckel
1 year ago#19
LostSoldier20 posted...
I'll never be able to agree to this when DRG is around


It's amazing that someone can have such a factually wrong opinion about something like this.
Fade2black001 posted...
LOL BS and learn to do math. 75% of 200 is 50

User Info: Isilia

Isilia
1 year ago#20
I feel DRG is more punishing than bard, but it surely isn't more complicated. But this is a point that goes in circles most of the time. I think MCH is more complicated and punishing by how it is described, but I haven't experienced it.

I find bard's opener alone makes it more obnoxious than anything DRG has to do (DRG is my main DPS). DRG gets a lot more leeway between the GCD than bard does, so even though I'm doubling those oGCD moves, I'm not really stressed in doing so. After the opener, it's just a slow circle and BotD management. Again, punishing, but not complicated. The more stationary your target is, the less stressful DRG becomes. It's when they bounce around like a child on a sugar high when things get annoying.

Just IMO~
http://i.imgur.com/JFYhdtk.gif | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2937700/
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