5 Reasons Why Kojima Probably Doesn't Consider MGS Portable Ops Canon

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User Info: alexg1989

alexg1989
4 years ago#1
And with this I think my PO arguing days are over. When it comes, I'll just link to this blog post and the snake soup article.

https://artisticexpression.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/5-reasons-why-hideo-kojima-probably-doesnt-consider-mgs-portable-ops-canon/

Does Hideo Kojima REALLY Consider Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops Canon?

A little backstory before we begin: Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops (MPO) is a portable PSP game developed by Kojima Productions. Unlike other games in the series, Hideo Kojima had little involvement in its creation beside writing the basic outline for the story.

There can be no doubt that the events of MPO really did occur within the official Metal Gear Solid time-line. Kojima himself, the series’ creator, confirmed this in a podcast after MGS Peace Walker’s release. However, Kojima has also been behind numerous other actions that could lead one to suspect his sincerity.

Warning: Major MGS Peace Walker and MPO Spoilers ahead

Reasons why Kojima might not really consider Portable Ops canon after all:

1.) In the very podcast where Kojima admits PO’s canonicity, he also damns it by stating, “It happened but it is not a main chapter”. At first glance, this statement may not seem notable, but after a little scrutiny it’s implications become apparent:

• Portable Ops is the only canon MGS game said not to be a main chapter. That’s right, while Metal Gear 1, Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, MGS, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4 and MGS Peace Walker are all main titles, Portable Ops is not, according to Kojima.

• Some dispute this by saying that it holds relevance to the series, that without Portable Ops, the other games would not make sense. That’s not true anyhow (and I will explain why later), and Kojima himself disagrees. Because by saying it is not part of the main series, he’s saying it is a thing apart. You can play the main series without playing this. Ergo it is unimportant to the main series. Simple English. If an author writes a trilogy of books and he tells you that one of those books is not a main chapter of the series, what does that mean? When you think about it for more than a second, it is dumbfounding. Either every part of a story is a main chapter, if not, then the part that isn’t is not integral to the main story so it is something that can be missed. Does the Harry Potter series have a book that is not considered a main chapter? What about Lord of The Rings? Is there a book in the LOTR series one can skip without missing a huge chunk of the story? So here we have the series’ creator clearly stating Portable Ops is irrelevant to the series, and yet fanboys still try to argue against it.

2.) Portable Ops was, once again, the only game excluded from 2011′s (2012 on PS Vita) Metal Gear Solid HD Collection.

• It made no appearance in any way shape or form. MGS4 was also excluded, but the purpose of the HD Collection was to remake the PS2 games and release them on HD consoles. It would’ve made little sense to put a game that was already HD in an HD remake collection. Even so, MGS1 was available as a download copy for those who bought the HD collection in Japan. The MGS Peace Walker HD edition released as a single game simultaneously alongside the HD collection in Japan, but was included in the collection in North America. Metal Gear 1 and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, the late 80s original games, were also included. All were included… except Portable Ops.

• People argue saying that a collection of canon games does not have to include every canon game, but they refuse to see it from another perspective. They may be right, but it is also true that it was the only canon game to be excluded. Think of it this way, if all of your uncles, aunts, brothers, cousins, sisters and everyone except you, were invited to the family reunion, wouldn’t you feel just a tad bit crappy?
PSN ID: psvitagamer89 ~~ God is fake, isn't it obvious?
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User Info: alexg1989

alexg1989
4 years ago#2
3.) Portable Ops was largely ignored in Kojima’s portable PSP sequel, Peace Walker.

• MPO received the equival ent of a footnote in Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, but I suspect that’s only because the games were developed side-by-side, and given Kojima’s enthusiasm for portable consoles, releasing a portable MGS game that was canon was probably a big goal for him (he went on to make his own in Peace Walker). Even so, after MGS4, we’ve heard zilch. Even Portable Ops’ sequel, MGS Peace Walker acts instead as a sequel to MGS3 and never once mentions the events of Portable Ops. Okay, that’s a lie. Kazuhira Miller, a Peace Walker character who had no involvement whatsoever in the San Heironymo Takeover, delivers this line that has been the cause of much controversy, “Finally, we can leave all that crap in San Heironymo behind, and bust into the mercenary business for real”. Those who play MGS know how much Kojima loves to literally speak to the player through characters. That line is often considered to be another case of Kojima ‘breaking the 4th wall’ and telling us, the players, to forget about Portable Ops.

• Rabid PO fanboys argue by stating that not all sequels have to reference their predecessors, and while that may be true, the problem is that there are tons of references in Peace Walker to all the other games in the series, all except…that’s right, you guessed it, Portable Ops. We see Liquid Snake, Solid Snake and Solidus Snake as Easer Eggs, the LET project is mentioned in a secret tape, Huey and Big Boss have a conversation about cloning etc.

• Fans try to reach by stating that Peace Walker’s mention of Big Boss’ founding of Foxhound (which we see in Portable Ops) counts as a reference to Portable Ops. The problem here though, is that what Portable Ops did was create a needless story out of an event that was already revealed in a previous game. That Big Boss founded Foxhound has been known since Metal Gear Solid 3 (which released years prior to PO), so it could just as easily be, and most likely is a call back to that.

• Others will bring up Big Boss’ line to Strangelove toward the end of Peace Walker, “I’m used to shock therapy”, as a reference to the beginning cutscene of Portable Ops, where Cunningham electrocutes Big Boss. Somehow they forgot the big bad Russian brute with a body made of lightning bolts from MGS3. In it, Colonel Volgin shocks Big Boss so many times its almost painful to watch (Hayter’s voice acting sells it well too).

• When Big Boss meets Huey Emmerich in Peace Walker and they chit-chat about the new bipedal weapon that Hot Coldman is developing, Big Boss recalls the words he heard from Granin in MGS3, “the missing link between infantry and artillery, Metal Gear”, but not another mention of it is made during that scene. Fine, right? Not really, because just a few years prior in Portable Ops, Big Boss had fought two Metal Gears and saved the world from all out nuclear war, but this seems to have completely slipped his mind. You can play the entirety of Peace Walker through and through and not know that Big Boss had ever before encountered a Metal Gear.

• Gene, main antagonist of Portable Ops, the first to create a Metal Gear, the man who gave Big Boss the funds to start his military and the inspiration behind Outer Heaven is not mentioned, not even once in the sequel. You’d think that if your actions were so pivotal to how things eventually turn out in the MGS universe, that you’d at least warrant a mention in later games, but I guess Kojima disagrees. Oh yeah, about the funds that Gene gave Big Boss at the end of Portable Ops, did that even happen? Kaz Miller makes it abundantly clear at the beginning of Peace Walker that they’re flat out broke.

4.) Kojima has themes behind every one of his Metal Gear Solid games. The themes are as follow:
PSN ID: psvitagamer89 ~~ God is fake, isn't it obvious?
Read my blog: http://www.artisticexpression.wordpress.com

User Info: alexg1989

alexg1989
4 years ago#3
• MGS: Genes
• MGS2: Memes
• MGS3: Scene
• MGS4: Sense
• MGS Peace Walker: Peace

The only one lacking a theme is… yeah, Portable Ops.

5.) In Kojima Production’s 25th anniversary time-line, all canonical Metal Gear Solid games were included except… okay, this is getting tiring, except Portable Ops. http://www.konami.jp/mg25th/truth/

• Some argue by stating that the original Metal Gear 1 and Metal Gear 2 games were also excluded from a different time-line a few years ago. The difference is that they were mistakenly omitted and were later included.

That being said, everything here is pure speculation. The MGS fan-base, particularly those fond of MPO, tend to be very soft creatures, so I must state that I am not in fact saying that Portable Ops is non-canon. It very much and unfortunately is part of the series and will remain so until Hideo Kojima says other-wise.

Why, if Kojima does not think PO is canon, has he not said anything about it?

Here’s what I think may be going on.

Back when Portable Ops first released, Kojima made such a huge deal about MPO, even going so far as to refuse to complete MGS4 Guns of The Patriots’s story until MPO’s was done. That’s how closely the two games were intertwined during development. After release, MPO was highly regarded as being the first portable MGS game that’s actually a part of the main line, so how much of a dick would Kojima have to be to just change all that? Also, perhaps he just doesn’t want to hurt the feelings of the crew who worked on the game as a canon title? Again, speculation, but possible scenarios.

If you want a more in depth look at why MGS Portable Ops simply cannot logically fit into the canon MGS universe, read this article by Ravi at the Snake Soup: http://thesnakesoup.org/?section=articles&content=mpwmpo
PSN ID: psvitagamer89 ~~ God is fake, isn't it obvious?
Read my blog: http://www.artisticexpression.wordpress.com

User Info: Forgive_Forget

Forgive_Forget
4 years ago#4
Why? Just why? Can you even go 2 weeks without talking about anything Portable Ops related?
Poker dice champ since winning two games in a row

User Info: Ganon007

Ganon007
4 years ago#5
Were still talking about this? PO is canon unless Kojima explicitly states otherwise. Plain and simple. Still, who played PO to even give a rats ass if its canon or not? ....
Screw The Rules. I HAVE MONEY!!!

User Info: alexg1989

alexg1989
4 years ago#6
People bring it up and when they do, I comment on it. This is my first topic about PO in months brah...

Anyway, this is my goodbye to the PO arguing... its always just the same members arguing the same arguments (me included) and its getting tiring.

from now on, when I talk about it it won't be trying to make logical arguments. I'm just going to flat out disrespect it and anyone who defends it.
PSN ID: psvitagamer89 ~~ God is fake, isn't it obvious?
Read my blog: http://www.artisticexpression.wordpress.com

User Info: AngryGFAQer

AngryGFAQer
4 years ago#7
Forgive_Forget posted...
Why? Just why? Can you even go 2 weeks without talking about anything Portable Ops related?


He feels a need to validate and justify his skewed presumptions by doing it over and over again.

A try-hard, in other words.
"I was garbage, the writing transformed," - Raiden
I'm Batman. I don't enjoy anything.

User Info: giantblimpN7

giantblimpN7
4 years ago#8
The way people try to deny Portable Ops being canon you'd think that it touched them as a child.
http://i.imgur.com/zSHmk.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/jman879/1363326008776_zps7079c9a5.gif

User Info: eric_otness

eric_otness
4 years ago#9
alexg1989 posted...
3.) Portable Ops was largely ignored in Kojima’s portable PSP sequel, Peace Walker.

• MPO received the equival ent of a footnote in Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, but I suspect that’s only because the games were developed side-by-side, and given Kojima’s enthusiasm for portable consoles, releasing a portable MGS game that was canon was probably a big goal for him (he went on to make his own in Peace Walker). Even so, after MGS4, we’ve heard zilch. Even Portable Ops’ sequel, MGS Peace Walker acts instead as a sequel to MGS3 and never once mentions the events of Portable Ops. Okay, that’s a lie. Kazuhira Miller, a Peace Walker character who had no involvement whatsoever in the San Heironymo Takeover, delivers this line that has been the cause of much controversy, “Finally, we can leave all that crap in San Heironymo behind, and bust into the mercenary business for real”. Those who play MGS know how much Kojima loves to literally speak to the player through characters. That line is often considered to be another case of Kojima ‘breaking the 4th wall’ and telling us, the players, to forget about Portable Ops.

• Rabid PO fanboys argue by stating that not all sequels have to reference their predecessors, and while that may be true, the problem is that there are tons of references in Peace Walker to all the other games in the series, all except…that’s right, you guessed it, Portable Ops. We see Liquid Snake, Solid Snake and Solidus Snake as Easer Eggs, the LET project is mentioned in a secret tape, Huey and Big Boss have a conversation about cloning etc.

• Fans try to reach by stating that Peace Walker’s mention of Big Boss’ founding of Foxhound (which we see in Portable Ops) counts as a reference to Portable Ops. The problem here though, is that what Portable Ops did was create a needless story out of an event that was already revealed in a previous game. That Big Boss founded Foxhound has been known since Metal Gear Solid 3 (which released years prior to PO), so it could just as easily be, and most likely is a call back to that.

• Others will bring up Big Boss’ line to Strangelove toward the end of Peace Walker, “I’m used to shock therapy”, as a reference to the beginning cutscene of Portable Ops, where Cunningham electrocutes Big Boss. Somehow they forgot the big bad Russian brute with a body made of lightning bolts from MGS3. In it, Colonel Volgin shocks Big Boss so many times its almost painful to watch (Hayter’s voice acting sells it well too).

• When Big Boss meets Huey Emmerich in Peace Walker and they chit-chat about the new bipedal weapon that Hot Coldman is developing, Big Boss recalls the words he heard from Granin in MGS3, “the missing link between infantry and artillery, Metal Gear”, but not another mention of it is made during that scene. Fine, right? Not really, because just a few years prior in Portable Ops, Big Boss had fought two Metal Gears and saved the world from all out nuclear war, but this seems to have completely slipped his mind. You can play the entirety of Peace Walker through and through and not know that Big Boss had ever before encountered a Metal Gear.

• Gene, main antagonist of Portable Ops, the first to create a Metal Gear, the man who gave Big Boss the funds to start his military and the inspiration behind Outer Heaven is not mentioned, not even once in the sequel. You’d think that if your actions were so pivotal to how things eventually turn out in the MGS universe, that you’d at least warrant a mention in later games, but I guess Kojima disagrees. Oh yeah, about the funds that Gene gave Big Boss at the end of Portable Ops, did that even happen? Kaz Miller makes it abundantly clear at the beginning of Peace Walker that they’re flat out broke.

4.) Kojima has themes behind every one of his Metal Gear Solid games. The themes are as follow:


Wrong, even MPO got at least one reference (Miller's line).

User Info: eric_otness

eric_otness
4 years ago#10
And for the record, that was only one torture session from Volgin. The way Snake was talking indicated that he had more than one shock therapy session prior to Strangelove. You can't instantly get used to something just by experiencing it once (and I can attest to that personally, as can several other people).

As far as their being "flat out broke," MSF would not have functional motorcycles, or functional weaponry (certainly not 16 M16s, 16 Mk22s, 16 stun rods, and the last ones definitely aren't easy to come by), or even a ship if they were as poor as Aladdin when the guy was still a street rat, it's just unrealistic. I've seen bills for paying for car damages and car maintenances, and if they were dirt poor as you insinuated that Kaz mentioned, they wouldn't have been able to have those things function at all, or even have them, period. Remember, the only thing EXPLICITLY stated to have come from Zadornov as downpayment for hiring them are Mother Base and at least one of the Huey choppers.

And besides, I noticed you conveniently ignored Big Boss and Kaz mentioning that they had to relocate whenever the CIA drew near ("What's up, Kaz?" "We've got guests!" "Time to move?" "Don't worry! It's not our 'friends' from Langley"). If they wanted to ensure that they weren't spotted by the CIA, the very first thing they'd do is bribe their clients to buy their silence from the CIA. That requires a lot of money regarding moving from client to client, meaning they most likely spent the money from Gene's resources.

And... honestly? His not mentioning encountering Metal Gear in Peace Walker prior to 1974? Portable Ops made it very clear that they had to cover up what happened in that mission in large part BECAUSE Gene nearly launched a nuke at America in its ending. Of course he wouldn't mention it to Huey, seeing how he most likely wouldn't know about that. Even when they covered up the reasons behind Operation Snake Eater, they at least revealed enough of it to keep the masses satisfied. Besides, if we go by your logic, Kojima probably thinks the first Metal Gear is no longer canon simply because Solid Snake never recognized the name Outer Heaven when Raiden informed him of it, DESPITE not only having previously taken down that country, but even denying it when he already unmasked himself as Solid Snake by that point, or that MGS2 is no longer canon come MGS4 due to Snake not even knowing Ocelot was possessed by Liquid until Roy Campbell, despite having witnessed Ocelot's possessions twice, on two different missions, and was even implied to have believed it to have actually occurred, or hey, maybe Kojima thinks MGS4, or at least EVA's Patriots backstory, is no longer canon because Big Boss doesn't even recognize the Patriots, even after Paz flat out told him who they were.

As far as Kojima, I'm pretty sure he can take it back even after heavily promoting it. I certainly can do that if I were in Kojima's position.

And I've played or at least watched the Metal Gear games, and trust me, that's not his usual style of fourth wall breaking. I've memorized several data dumps, dialogues, and the like, so I'd know from Kojima writing those games whether something was a fourth wall break or not.

Sorry for the double post, but the previous one was just too long as it was.

EDIT: And for the record, those magazines don't count as references: They were only given those covers because the localizers didn't wish to pay the Japanese magazines their due, so they changed it, as they were originally Japanese gaming magazines. Same for Narc soda. And references to other games usually entail, you know, actually referencing events that occurred by that time, explicitly or implicitly. In other words, mentioning cloning as an example of nuclear deterrence doesn't count as a reference to Metal Gear, especially seeing how the only time LET was actually referenced canonically was in Kaz's call.
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