If loot boxes are not gambling because

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User Info: ShippFFXI

ShippFFXI
4 weeks ago#161
bmouse6 posted...
ShippFFXI posted...
So quarter machines kids use are gambling?
Cracker Jacks are gambling?
McDonald's happy meals are gambling?

You purchase a box with 4 random items in it. That is the premise. Just like when you do get a kid a happy meal, there will be a toy. It may be a toy they already have, or not the toy they want.

You're mixing things up here, just like the guy in the other topic.

All of the things you mentioned can't be legally classified as gambling, but there are signs and similarities.

Besides, I already wrote in at least 1 of these topics that you are right regarding the part that legally you can't classify loot boxes as gambling, and if that is what you're trying to prove, then no further proof is necessary.

That's entirely my point.

I'm not arguing that it has no connection to gambling. It does share similarities. Many games, especially online games, share similarities to gambling. Win a match in Overwatch? There's some adrenaline and dopamine for you. Same for pushing higher Greater Rifts on leader boards in Diablo 3. Same for killing a raid boss.

I think we can all agree that gaming does not need to be further regulated for the masses just because some people cannot control themselves and end up dying after sitting behind a monitor for 36 hours straight.

I don't even purchase loot boxes. Never have and most likely never will. I get more than enough of them by simply playing the games that include them.

The only ones that need to be looked at are the ones that offer in-game advantages like CS:GO, or at least I think that's the game that does it. And the reason for that is because it's an unhealthy precedent for gaming in general.

Like I said before, let's be honest about the real issue in these threads. It's not about caring for those with gambling addictions. It's not about, "Please! Think of the children!" It's about people who either don't like that others can spend their own money to fast track getting cosmetics while they can't, or they're mad because they bought a bundle of boxes and didn't get what they wanted.

I'd rather have harmless cosmetic and 100% optional micro transactions in my games than P2W garbage. If it's not lootboxes, it will be something else.
I feel like they are making some great points, but the name-calling and volcano-based murder-ideation are chipping away at their position somewhat.

User Info: Fishels

Fishels
4 weeks ago#162
Maverick_Reznor posted...
That's not how it works kid
You buy balls to put into pachinko machines to get more balls so you can exchange them back for money.
You play games like Black Jack for money.
You give money to be dealt a hand that can bet you more money.
With loot boxes you buy a product.
It's like buying a video game except you are buying a random assortment of items in a video game.
Every time you make your argument that loot boxes are gambling you just make yourself look stupider than before.


“take risky action in the hope of a desired result.”

Even if you get something you ARE still gambling. This is a fact.

User Info: secondhand1

secondhand1
4 weeks ago#163
ShippFFXI posted...
bmouse6 posted...
ShippFFXI posted...
So quarter machines kids use are gambling?
Cracker Jacks are gambling?
McDonald's happy meals are gambling?

You purchase a box with 4 random items in it. That is the premise. Just like when you do get a kid a happy meal, there will be a toy. It may be a toy they already have, or not the toy they want.

You're mixing things up here, just like the guy in the other topic.

All of the things you mentioned can't be legally classified as gambling, but there are signs and similarities.

Besides, I already wrote in at least 1 of these topics that you are right regarding the part that legally you can't classify loot boxes as gambling, and if that is what you're trying to prove, then no further proof is necessary.

That's entirely my point.

I'm not arguing that it has no connection to gambling. It does share similarities. Many games, especially online games, share similarities to gambling. Win a match in Overwatch? There's some adrenaline and dopamine for you. Same for pushing higher Greater Rifts on leader boards in Diablo 3. Same for killing a raid boss.

I think we can all agree that gaming does not need to be further regulated for the masses just because some people cannot control themselves and end up dying after sitting behind a monitor for 36 hours straight.

I don't even purchase loot boxes. Never have and most likely never will. I get more than enough of them by simply playing the games that include them.

The only ones that need to be looked at are the ones that offer in-game advantages like CS:GO, or at least I think that's the game that does it. And the reason for that is because it's an unhealthy precedent for gaming in general.

Like I said before, let's be honest about the real issue in these threads. It's not about caring for those with gambling addictions. It's not about, "Please! Think of the children!" It's about people who either don't like that others can spend their own money to fast track getting cosmetics while they can't, or they're mad because they bought a bundle of boxes and didn't get what they wanted.

I'd rather have harmless cosmetic and 100% optional micro transactions in my games than P2W garbage. If it's not lootboxes, it will be something else.
It's a moo point. You know, like a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter. It's moo.

User Info: theshoveller

theshoveller
4 weeks ago#164
Fishels posted...
Maverick_Reznor posted...
That's not how it works kid
You buy balls to put into pachinko machines to get more balls so you can exchange them back for money.
You play games like Black Jack for money.
You give money to be dealt a hand that can bet you more money.
With loot boxes you buy a product.
It's like buying a video game except you are buying a random assortment of items in a video game.
Every time you make your argument that loot boxes are gambling you just make yourself look stupider than before.


“take risky action in the hope of a desired result.”

Even if you get something you ARE still gambling. This is a fact.

Not always a "risky action." Just any sort of a wager you make on an unknown outcome. That wager may be money, time, or trust, with the outcome being making more money, getting an item you want, or getting a ride home from work.
Stupid, stupid rat creatures!!!

User Info: juker79

juker79
4 weeks ago#165
Fishels posted...
Maverick_Reznor posted...
That's not how it works kid
You buy balls to put into pachinko machines to get more balls so you can exchange them back for money.
You play games like Black Jack for money.
You give money to be dealt a hand that can bet you more money.
With loot boxes you buy a product.
It's like buying a video game except you are buying a random assortment of items in a video game.
Every time you make your argument that loot boxes are gambling you just make yourself look stupider than before.


“take risky action in the hope of a desired result.”

Even if you get something you ARE still gambling. This is a fact.


Sounds like this is resolved, facts and all.

A few people earlier said a person gets the same feeling buying a loot box as they do from pulling a slot machine; I wasn't convinced. I have little interest in loot boxes; but now that we can draw a valid gumball comparison, I'm going to test this out.

The next time I get an itch to play blackjack or a slot machine; I'm going to try out the gumball machine instead. The hope is that I get the same feeling for a few bucks instead of a few hundred.

But question...
Is it still gambling if I own the gumball machine? I'm inclined to think "no" since I could just keep recycling my own money until I got the blue or yellow ones. But I'm also inclined to think "yes", since I am wagering my time. Do you think it would work better if my wife bought the gumball machine and hid the key to the change from me?
Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a **** how crazy they are!

User Info: pezzicle

pezzicle
4 weeks ago#166
juker79 posted...
Fishels posted...
Maverick_Reznor posted...
That's not how it works kid
You buy balls to put into pachinko machines to get more balls so you can exchange them back for money.
You play games like Black Jack for money.
You give money to be dealt a hand that can bet you more money.
With loot boxes you buy a product.
It's like buying a video game except you are buying a random assortment of items in a video game.
Every time you make your argument that loot boxes are gambling you just make yourself look stupider than before.


“take risky action in the hope of a desired result.”

Even if you get something you ARE still gambling. This is a fact.


Sounds like this is resolved, facts and all.

A few people earlier said a person gets the same feeling buying a loot box as they do from pulling a slot machine; I wasn't convinced. I have little interest in loot boxes; but now that we can draw a valid gumball comparison, I'm going to test this out.

The next time I get an itch to play blackjack or a slot machine; I'm going to try out the gumball machine instead. The hope is that I get the same feeling for a few bucks instead of a few hundred.

But question...
Is it still gambling if I own the gumball machine? I'm inclined to think "no" since I could just keep recycling my own money until I got the blue or yellow ones. But I'm also inclined to think "yes", since I am wagering my time. Do you think it would work better if my wife bought the gumball machine and hid the key to the change from me?

that isn't how anything works in any way but nice try
Tribe Time!

User Info: juker79

juker79
4 weeks ago#167
pezzicle posted...
juker79 posted...
Fishels posted...
Maverick_Reznor posted...
That's not how it works kid
You buy balls to put into pachinko machines to get more balls so you can exchange them back for money.
You play games like Black Jack for money.
You give money to be dealt a hand that can bet you more money.
With loot boxes you buy a product.
It's like buying a video game except you are buying a random assortment of items in a video game.
Every time you make your argument that loot boxes are gambling you just make yourself look stupider than before.


“take risky action in the hope of a desired result.”

Even if you get something you ARE still gambling. This is a fact.


Sounds like this is resolved, facts and all.

A few people earlier said a person gets the same feeling buying a loot box as they do from pulling a slot machine; I wasn't convinced. I have little interest in loot boxes; but now that we can draw a valid gumball comparison, I'm going to test this out.

The next time I get an itch to play blackjack or a slot machine; I'm going to try out the gumball machine instead. The hope is that I get the same feeling for a few bucks instead of a few hundred.

But question...
Is it still gambling if I own the gumball machine? I'm inclined to think "no" since I could just keep recycling my own money until I got the blue or yellow ones. But I'm also inclined to think "yes", since I am wagering my time. Do you think it would work better if my wife bought the gumball machine and hid the key to the change from me?

that isn't how anything works in any way but nice try


How does it work then?

Gamblers like to gamble, and for the most part it doesn't really matter to us what we are gambling on. I can easily spend a few hundred at the casino, or as I'm told now, spend a few bucks on loot boxes to get my gambling fix in. I figure gumballs are an even cheaper alternative to the loot box, is that not the case?
Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a **** how crazy they are!

User Info: Wade_Parzival

Wade_Parzival
4 weeks ago#168
Maverick_Reznor posted...
ShELbY_GT500 posted...
Gambling is defined as risking something for a reward

Again kid, the broad definition isn't the same as the specific one.
Anything can be a gamble with the broad definition.
For example, you feel like you need to fart but it seems pretty hefty.
So you take a gamble and fart.
The Risk, you s*** your pants
The Reward, you relieve some pressure.
In your case you s*** your pants.


You know the saying, Gambled on a fart and didn't s*** my pants. Its going to be a good day.
Why are you even reading this?

User Info: AlphaOmega786

AlphaOmega786
4 weeks ago#169
AlphaOmega786 posted...
Loot boxes are not gambling.

1. You are not paying for the loot box itself. You are paying for the items inside the box and you always get them. You may not get the item(s) you want, you may get duplicates, but you always get items from the box.

2. This is literally the same as real life trading cards. You are not paying for the box of cards. You are paying for the cards inside the box and you always get them. You may not get the cards you want, you may get duplicates, but you always get cards.

Trading cards aren't gambling either.

Having said all of that, loot boxes are indeed a s***ty practice and need to be restrained now before they become the norm.

I would advise everyone concerned to vote with their wallets, instead of their mouths and simply not buy them.


As I said above.

User Info: ShELbY_GT500

ShELbY_GT500
4 weeks ago#170
@ShippFFXI

But some games do have extras in the loot boxes other than cosmetics like extra weapons. In this method it’s not really pay to win, more like gamble to win.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man- The Dude
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