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Wow smogon community is seriously considering banning baton pass LOL

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User Info: FightingPolygon

FightingPolygon
3 years ago#21
Judgmenl posted...
Starbound2013 posted...
Now if only they'd come out with a
VGC Singles sim...


What are "VGC Singles"? That isn't a thing although we would all love it.


Do you have any idea about what you're talking about?

User Info: hyjinx17

hyjinx17
3 years ago#22
FightingPolygon posted...
Judgmenl posted...
Starbound2013 posted...
Now if only they'd come out with a
VGC Singles sim...


What are "VGC Singles"? That isn't a thing although we would all love it.


Do you have any idea about what you're talking about?


Do you? The VGC's is a doubles format.
3DS friend code:3883-5502-4640 IGN:Zero

User Info: FightingPolygon

FightingPolygon
3 years ago#23
hyjinx17 posted...
FightingPolygon posted...
Judgmenl posted...
Starbound2013 posted...
Now if only they'd come out with a
VGC Singles sim...


What are "VGC Singles"? That isn't a thing although we would all love it.


Do you have any idea about what you're talking about?


Do you? The VGC's is a doubles format.


VGC Singles exist.

User Info: Judgmenl

Judgmenl
3 years ago#24
FightingPolygon posted...
hyjinx17 posted...
FightingPolygon posted...
Judgmenl posted...
Starbound2013 posted...
Now if only they'd come out with a
VGC Singles sim...


What are "VGC Singles"? That isn't a thing although we would all love it.


Do you have any idea about what you're talking about?


Do you? The VGC's is a doubles format.


VGC Singles exist.


VGC Singles do not exist. Battle Spot Singles do.
http://i.imgur.com/sUtdyzN.png - http://nostalgiasky.blogspot.com/
GarCHUMP and TalonfLAME

User Info: ThatGuyZ

ThatGuyZ
3 years ago#25
R-A-V posted...
Hiten Mitsurugi S posted...
Competitive pokemon is a skilless, obnoxious game that should never be taken seriously.


This. And I love seriously it's taken, when prize support is almost non-existent.


I tend to play SIMs for Pokemon and even I still consider Competitive for Pokemon a joke.
3DS: 5370-0900-3336(Ground: Trapinch, Nincada, Palpitoad)/Wii-U: NewZen41

User Info: kakashik99992

kakashik99992
3 years ago#26
People who don't actually read the comments and are in commenting here are in for a shock later just like in the swagger case but worse let me collect some for you slackersbut before yet another topic about baton pass

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rse-baton-pass.86066/

"Baton pass is uncompetitive in a different way from swagger, but it is uncompetitive. I remember someone in VR stating that they played a swagger team and after putting it down realized they knew nothing of the meta. The same can be said here: You DON'T need any meta knowledge to succeed with these teams. Honestly, this should be the judge for something to be uncompetitive.

Baton pass players are playing as much an algorithm as swagplay users were. Go scolipede. Taunt? Go Espeon. If no, outspeed? yes, use Substitute. No, use protect. They hazard set? Use iron defense. No, protect. It continues along a very predictable path, and even if the other player KNOWS this pattern, they can't interrupt it without a designated counter or a crit. First, we don't rely on hax to beat styles. That's garbage in and of itself. Second, your counters are a prankster taunt or a sturdy card user, or maybe focus sash heart swap manaphy (or some psycho shift). Ditto doesn't even work because they'll probably be behind subs. "

"This is my personal opinion but I believe the reason why we didn't nerf baton passing (BP from now on) in the BW metagame is because we had so many things we wanted to ban and bicker about and many players were shamed to use this tactic/playstyle on the ladder and in tournaments, but as we can clearly see in Gen 6 that shame flew right out of the window with Swagplay.

"Baton pass teams got two new toys this gen, Scolipede and Sylveon, the first can get 3 stat boosts/increases in one turn with better movepool and stats (a MEVO Ninjask if you will) and the second is immune to Dragon, resists/butchers Dark and can be used as a secondary Baton Pass receiver if the situation calls for it.

We often speak that no team is perfect and every team has it's flaw, but it is damned hard to fault Baton Pass teams, they contain pretty much everything they need within a 6 member team to handle situation to the point you will be relying on either including a Phazer in some very awkward situations (HO teams lulz) or critics (yay luck). If I called baton passing as perfect a pokemon team can get I wouldn't be lying."
"Ah, I've been waiting for this for a while. It's obvious that the majority of people don't like Baton Pass, and not just facing it, most tournament players despise the thought of using it, because you are considered to win uncleanly, unfairly, and are disrespected by your peers. The question is obviously whether there should be some method of reducing or eliminating the uncompetitive aspects of it, i.e. the parts that allow a less competent player to beat a more competent one, in the same vein as Swagger. First I am going to answer the questions outlined in the OP."

And from the other thread

"Seeing as how RSE is making a comeback with the newest rendition of the Smogon Tour, I figured I'd take a crack at the elephant in the room. RSE full Baton Pass teams are a team archetype that I consider to be nearly uncounterable and requires overly obscure counters. I would propose a clause to be added as follows: "Only 2 Pokemon on your team may know the move Baton Pass." I'd like some input on ADV players on this."

And the list goes on
My pokemon run http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/150
FC:2638 0648 9544 Nick Arthur/Kashim

User Info: LJx19

LJx19
3 years ago#27
kakashik99992 posted...
People who don't actually read the comments and are in commenting here are in for a shock later just like in the swagger case but worse let me collect some for you slackersbut before yet another topic about baton pass

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rse-baton-pass.86066/

"Baton pass is uncompetitive in a different way from swagger, but it is uncompetitive. I remember someone in VR stating that they played a swagger team and after putting it down realized they knew nothing of the meta. The same can be said here: You DON'T need any meta knowledge to succeed with these teams. Honestly, this should be the judge for something to be uncompetitive.

Baton pass players are playing as much an algorithm as swagplay users were. Go scolipede. Taunt? Go Espeon. If no, outspeed? yes, use Substitute. No, use protect. They hazard set? Use iron defense. No, protect. It continues along a very predictable path, and even if the other player KNOWS this pattern, they can't interrupt it without a designated counter or a crit. First, we don't rely on hax to beat styles. That's garbage in and of itself. Second, your counters are a prankster taunt or a sturdy card user, or maybe focus sash heart swap manaphy (or some psycho shift). Ditto doesn't even work because they'll probably be behind subs. "

"This is my personal opinion but I believe the reason why we didn't nerf baton passing (BP from now on) in the BW metagame is because we had so many things we wanted to ban and bicker about and many players were shamed to use this tactic/playstyle on the ladder and in tournaments, but as we can clearly see in Gen 6 that shame flew right out of the window with Swagplay.

"Baton pass teams got two new toys this gen, Scolipede and Sylveon, the first can get 3 stat boosts/increases in one turn with better movepool and stats (a MEVO Ninjask if you will) and the second is immune to Dragon, resists/butchers Dark and can be used as a secondary Baton Pass receiver if the situation calls for it.

We often speak that no team is perfect and every team has it's flaw, but it is damned hard to fault Baton Pass teams, they contain pretty much everything they need within a 6 member team to handle situation to the point you will be relying on either including a Phazer in some very awkward situations (HO teams lulz) or critics (yay luck). If I called baton passing as perfect a pokemon team can get I wouldn't be lying."
"Ah, I've been waiting for this for a while. It's obvious that the majority of people don't like Baton Pass, and not just facing it, most tournament players despise the thought of using it, because you are considered to win uncleanly, unfairly, and are disrespected by your peers. The question is obviously whether there should be some method of reducing or eliminating the uncompetitive aspects of it, i.e. the parts that allow a less competent player to beat a more competent one, in the same vein as Swagger. First I am going to answer the questions outlined in the OP."

And from the other thread

"Seeing as how RSE is making a comeback with the newest rendition of the Smogon Tour, I figured I'd take a crack at the elephant in the room. RSE full Baton Pass teams are a team archetype that I consider to be nearly uncounterable and requires overly obscure counters. I would propose a clause to be added as follows: "Only 2 Pokemon on your team may know the move Baton Pass." I'd like some input on ADV players on this."

And the list goes on


Hmmm, 2011?
In any case, its the same arguments they use to justify every single ban. It is uncounterable, takes no skill, relies on luck, once it starts impossible to stop.

Nothing new here.
Dragonite>all.
I once got modded because petite women fully clothed, are apparently NSFW.

User Info: Tygore001

Tygore001
3 years ago#28
kakashik99992 posted...
And from the other thread

"Seeing as how RSE is making a comeback with the newest rendition of the Smogon Tour, I figured I'd take a crack at the elephant in the room. RSE full Baton Pass teams are a team archetype that I consider to be nearly uncounterable and requires overly obscure counters. I would propose a clause to be added as follows: "Only 2 Pokemon on your team may know the move Baton Pass." I'd like some input on ADV players on this."


I actually think a 2 BP per team limit is reasonable. The issue with BP isn't that any one Pokémon makes it broken, but the sum of the parts. Yes, there are key players (and the removal of any one of them could significantly change things), but I really don't see any other way to limit Baton Pass teams without banning Pokémon that, on their own merit, are perfectly fine in the OU environment.
Pokemon White 2 FC: 3010 5906 4214
3DS FC: 4511-0471-8035

User Info: Teh_Tiltyu

Teh_Tiltyu
3 years ago#29
why do people become whiny babies whenever a ruleset you don't follow does something
King of Fighters is objectively the best franchise.
"Mounted Emblem: Sigurdology of the Holsety War" - heavylobsterguy

User Info: kakashik99992

kakashik99992
3 years ago#30
Teh_Tiltyu posted...
why do people become whiny babies whenever a ruleset you don't follow does something


Well I follow and I'm not upset but think is somehow ridiculous actually the true first ridiculous sounding ban on smogon since I started to playing pokemon sims in 2009(I think lol forgot the date) if we exclude some things like keldeo/landorous ban
My pokemon run http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/150
FC:2638 0648 9544 Nick Arthur/Kashim
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