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Wow smogon community is seriously considering banning baton pass LOL

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  3. Wow smogon community is seriously considering banning baton pass LOL

User Info: SilveryZangoose

SilveryZangoose
3 years ago#71
ElectricPorygon posted...
What else could you expect from a group of cowards that bans stuff they can't beat?

User Info: Xerxes132

Xerxes132
3 years ago#72
from what i read, they were trying to nerf it because a team with nothing but baton pass baton pass baton pass takes little skill, at least what i read anyways
Fc:2578-4389-3007 IGN: John
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User Info: SnowxNeverLeft

SnowxNeverLeft
3 years ago#73
gkathellar posted...
Smogon
Preliminary notes: this is by no means a suspect thread, nor it is guaranteed that the move Baton Pass will ever be brought up for a formal suspect test.


Look at the guy's signature. He's an admin, so he eventually gets what he wants.

User Info: SnowxNeverLeft

SnowxNeverLeft
3 years ago#74
What baffles me is the absolute refusal of the "pro-ban" players to adapt to this new strategy.
Hyper-offense does well against BP thanks to extremely dangerous offensive pokemon like Mega Pinsir and Talonflame who don't need to set up in order to wreck havoc.
BP chains are royally screwed up by Sableye, Haze Quagsire and Perish Song, all communly found in stall teams (Haze Quagsire is also used to counter Mega Gyarados so it's not totally useless).
It's balanced offense that seems to have the most trouble against these teams, and incidentally it's the most common playstyle. Is it too much to ask to dedicate a teamslot for the sake of countering a playstyle your team is weak to? How is it any different from shoehorning Kingdra or Gastrodon in a team to deal with rain teams back in Gen 5?

User Info: Hippopotas

Hippopotas
3 years ago#75
Bunselpower posted...
Lexifox posted...
Bunselpower posted...
eebhs posted...
Roar. Problem solved.


I in no way support a ban. But this is how much people on this thread know about the real problem that BP brings when they mouth off about Smogon and its bans.


People really underestimate how much work people put into these kinds of discussions at Smogon. They really do think that someone comes up with a genius strategy that can stop Talonflame, Greninja, and Garchomp, and people decide to ban it because they don't want to stop using the same seven or eight Pokemon and same moves.


I have been heavily involved in the discussions there. it's such a weird topic. If it required two pokemon to counter like Mega Lucario, it would be out. But it only requires one, and sometimes just one move. if it gave instant offense like Genesect, it'd be out. But it doesn't, it's a defensive Baton Pass team. The problem here is that the whole is vastly greater than the sum of the parts. I think the meta will deal with this if given the chance, but there are a lot of people that don't.

Honestly, people, if you play Smogon and can talk like an adult, get over there and discuss. I personally am against a ban, but what we need is testing and proof. if you have a good team that can also dismantle BP, then save some replays and show us. Because if enough of those videos can be submitted proving that BP doesn't hamper teambuilding, then it won't be banned. Or, if you think it should be banned ( I say banned, what I mean is nerfed) then argue that as well. But don't just argue, submit some Showdown replays.


Honest question, wouldn't a simple way of determining whether BP teams can or can't be reliably countered be by looking at the top ranked players/matches, and seeing if BP teams at that high level consistently win, lose, or a mix of both?
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User Info: M1Astray

M1Astray
3 years ago#76
Baton Pass is a completely cheap strategy that overcentralizes the game. It's that simple. And not only that, it can flawlessly stop any and every single thing you care to suggest to counter. Whirlwind/Roar/Taunt? Espeon. Dragon Tail? Mr Mime.

The only way you can stop one is bfore it sets up, because once it even gets a couple of boosts under it's almost impossible to actually stop. Even brute force can be stopped, because the person trying to apply the brute force is the one under extreme pressure and a single misplay by you or prediction by them results in them killing the one thing stopping them from setting it up.


The ways you can deal with a true Baton Pass team are extremely limited and niche, only really having the already mentioned brute force (with a bit of luck) or Circle Throw, the former relying partly on luck and the latter serving no real purpose outside of a BP team. Whatever way you look at it Baton Pass is overcentralizing, and as a community that seeks to remove overcentralizing facets of the metagame it is their duty to at least look in to this.


And while I'm ranting let me say this. If you don't play by Smogon rules and have nothing to contribute besides "Smogon sucks" kindly cease your pointless complaints. They serve no purpose besides annoyance for those that play by their rules, and Smogon themselves certainly won't be reading them nor giving them even the remotest thought.
This is a signature.

User Info: MLaw3k

MLaw3k
3 years ago#77
Haze.
-Deze neger buigt voor niemand
Y FC: 0834-1827-9393 Name: Ja3Dn SV: 3664

User Info: Xavuu

Xavuu
3 years ago#78
SnowxNeverLeft posted...
Words


Just going to say while I agree with you, a very good baton pass player will work around these obstacles. In that sense, it's just like any other player. There are good ones, and there are bad ones.

For perish song, we have Mr. Mime. The only Pokemon with priority on perish song is Murkrow. Murkrow is also the only Pokemon to get priority on haze. For sableye, the BP player needs to have a mental herb on scolipede, and Sylveon is a staple on bp teams to it out. Same for thundurus.

Haze quagsire is a free switch into smeargle to get up ingrain and spore/substitutes, but still one of the more solid counters.

A real good counter is curse, and is the one I use personally. The problem with curse is that they need to be weakened first. It doesn't help if they can just switch and start over.
STAB Quick Attack. Staraptor.
Also Pinsir now I guess. It's not gen V anymore.
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