Umineko Tea Party *progressive spoilers*

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User Info: metaIslug

metaIslug
2 months ago#21
Welp, finished Chapter 2.

It's just bizarre. I was actually way into Chapter 1 but this is almost a 180 from that.

It starts slow and I personally really can't stand George and Shannon, but I can see what it was building up to. I just am not a fan. It picked up after that tho

Someone here is saying that the mirror-breaking happens before Cycle 1, which i didn't think it had, but, If it happened like that, why did it only take until cycle 2 for them to get together. this bit is mind-f***y to the point I feel like i'm being played for a chump for trying to logic out something that makes no sense.

Then it goes into Rosa/Maria land, and this is the best part imo. I just like both characters alot. There's one line here that is just a big "what", where Beato shows up and says something like "Oh, look, a broken candy. How interesting that the light of a man stuck in purgatory, unable to go to heaven or hell, would be made into such an object."

Again it just sounds like trolling!

Then it goes into killing. I don't know why the twilights don't happen anymore. She just seemed to kill everyone at random times, out of order, etc. Besides that nothing to really say. Standard, closed rooms, red text meta-game what am I reading anymore is Beatrice the author?

And then closes in the most nonsense way. I dont even know what to type. Goat masks, goat ball, goat banquet. Femdom. Battler is definitely the reader being taken on a stroll. Eat it and like it. I dunno

User Info: tcaz2

tcaz2
2 months ago#22
metaIslug posted...
Someone here is saying that the mirror-breaking happens before Cycle 1, which i didn't think it had, but, If it happened like that, why did it only take until cycle 2 for them to get together. this bit is mind-f***y to the point I feel like i'm being played for a chump for trying to logic out something that makes no sense.

They... didn't just get together in Episode 2. They were together in Episode 1 as well. The only difference is that Shannon didn't immediately accept George's proposal in the first, probably due to the circumstances during the actual game being different.

It just wasn't focused on in Episode 1. You're suppose to apply things you learn from later Episodes to help you understand things from previous ones in a new light.

metaIslug posted...
Then it goes into Rosa/Maria land, and this is the best part imo. I just like both characters alot. There's one line here that is just a big "what", where Beato shows up and says something like "Oh, look, a broken candy. How interesting that the light of a man stuck in purgatory, unable to go to heaven or hell, would be made into such an object."

Again it just sounds like trolling!


...She's referring to the story of a Jack-o-Lantern, which Maria's candy was shaped like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o%27-the-wisp
In these tales, protagonists named either Will or Jack are doomed to haunt the marshes with a light for some misdeed.

No trolling here.

metaIslug posted...
Then it goes into killing. I don't know why the twilights don't happen anymore. She just seemed to kill everyone at random times, out of order, etc. Besides that nothing to really say. Standard, closed rooms, red text meta-game what am I reading anymore is Beatrice the author?


It sounds like you're approaching this from the wrong mentality. Probably stop trying to blindly accept everything that is being told to you, and think about WHY something happens, a character says something, or a concept is being presented in a certain way instead of just writing it off as 'its just trolling'.

In fact, if you have time, something that might help you jump-start your own understanding and make it more enjoyable for you is to listen to the first two Rokkenjima podcasts. It's a podcast done by some people on a fan site that was made to provide a community to people reading through the series for the first time, to kind of emulate how people discussed it when it was coming out, so they're spoiler free and have a bunch of new people to the series discussing it together and trying to figure it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJDoufA23XA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BBiwU2Dm0Y

They're super long, but I think it would be a really good idea to provide some more context and basis for you, which it sounds like you really need as you're not quite getting it yourself.



EDIT: Also, it's probably worth mentioning that Ryuukishi (the author) did get a lot of complaints that Episode 2 was 'too hard to understand', so he specifically put a few scenes in Episode 3 to help people struggling with the story.
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: metaIslug

metaIslug
2 months ago#23
tcaz2 posted...
They... didn't just get together in Episode 2. They were together in Episode 1 as well. The only difference is that Shannon didn't immediately accept George's proposal in the first, probably due to the circumstances during the actual game being different.

It just wasn't focused on in Episode 1. You're suppose to apply things you learn from later Episodes to help you understand things from previous ones in a new light.

Oh huh. I mean from the order it happens I never woulda gotten there. I wasn't paying attention to the dates. Thanks

This is really the kind of game where, in the absence of other people to help out, I really would have to write stuff down, and brainstorm it frequently.

tcaz2 posted...
..She's referring to the story of a Jack-o-Lantern, which Maria's candy was shaped like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o%27-the-wisp


Wouldn't have gotten there either. Admittedly that's pretty cool

tcaz2 posted...
In fact, if you have time, something that might help you jump-start your own understanding and make it more enjoyable for you is to listen to the first two Rokkenjima podcasts.


I could do that for sure. It sounds worth listening. Thanks for sharing it. I was pretty intent on looking at the murders seriously until a few days ago. After magic starts happening everywhere, it's hard to even give them a second glance anymore. Clearly there is magic, or if there's not any magic, the author is putting magic in your face in a "Sixth Sense" kind of way. As in, Battler was insane all along. The problem is that magic is being shown to the reader even without Battler being around. So that can't make sense.

So naturally, if it turns out there is no magic, the author played you like a damn fiddle by putting fake stuff in your face. If magic exists, it's almost impossible to think about the murders, because they could've been pulled off in a million different magic-related ways.

I get that there are probably not a million-different magic ways, because there are still rules that she has to follow. Figuring out those rules is probably what the game wants you to do. So I have a "witch weaknesses" list. it's a pretty small list tho

Anyway thanks for the links
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: tcaz2

tcaz2
2 months ago#24
Episode 3 will address how you should think about magic in the story a bit more.

It's part of the 'scenes Ryuukishi put in to help people out' thing.

While I do enjoy Episode 2, I do think it's not particularly well written in terms of coherency for people not familiar with certain narrative concepts. Umineko is definitely not a flawless series, but once you get a handle on it it can be immensely entertaining.

User Info: LeonhartFour

LeonhartFour
2 months ago#25
I like Episode 2, but it is a bit disappointing as a follow-up to Episode 1 because they're so tonally different it feels like mood whiplash.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png
http://imgur.com/ndK0zff

User Info: tcaz2

tcaz2
2 months ago#26
I feel like the mood whiplash feeling is entirely intentional, honestly. It's suppose to be jarring and surprising, and make you think "How can I possibly reconcile this with a mystery!?"

That's the whole point.

I'm more referring to him writing Episode 2 as if his readers already 'get' how they're suppose to think about the story without properly introducing that thought process. It's like he skipped a step, and then had to go back and insert it with how he did it.

And because of this, it's incredibly easy to just 'shut down' like the TC kind of did in terms of understanding (especially if you haven't read/seen Higurashi beforehand), and it's definitely not TC's fault- in this case, it is definitely Umineko's. It happens to a lot of people.

I kind of understand why Ryuukishi wrote it that way in hindsight, but it was still a mistake.


Or, to put it a bit more simply and kind of tie it together, he introduced the mood whiplash without giving you a moodbrace to wrap around your sore mood afterward, and that was more the mistake then having it in the first place.
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: pjbasis

pjbasis
2 months ago#27
Yeah the events you see are more like the magical version of the events.

Your/Battler's job is to figure out how the murders unfolded without the use of magic.
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/B8%20Girls%202012/pjbas.png
My bracket got DP'd
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: tcaz2

tcaz2
2 months ago#28
pj that's a spoiler

Not a huge one mind, but you should probably just let him read it telling him that in Episode 3.
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: Raka_Putra

Raka_Putra
2 months ago#29
Episode 2 was a quite jarring one, yeah.
Fuhlt nicht durch dich Sarastro Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr-- eeeeeeeeeeeeeeehr.

User Info: tcaz2

tcaz2
2 months ago#30
bamp
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