Hypothetical Mercs Topic, S2 Topic 2: Pure Imagination

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User Info: DeathChicken

DeathChicken
4 weeks ago#51
Also it was being argued against Id, who has a specific scene where he's frozen (with all of his nerve endings turned off to boot) and goes 'lol no'
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

User Info: trdl23

trdl23
4 weeks ago#52
I think I backed off of that one because yeah that was proven pretty well, but people were just ignoring that Kain was superf***ed by it.
E come vivo? Vivo!

User Info: KanzarisKelshen

KanzarisKelshen
4 weeks ago#53
Why wouldn't he no-sell, unless the argument was 'ice = water' which I would be inclined to dismiss because it requires stretching magic a fair bit

Kain has practice no-selling TK-hax which this is not different from
Shine on, you crazy diamond.

User Info: KanzarisKelshen

KanzarisKelshen
4 weeks ago#54
like let's be honest, my level of respect for wow weenies is none, 0, nonexistent

Arthas has a bunch of hype and so do the other named dudes because of cutscenes and books to me, its weenies do not

It's not FF14 or Dungeon Fighter Online where you can throw a weenie forward and they facetank a nuke or have a longer lasting version of Morrigan Aensland's Soul Eraser super as a basic move

These dudes are basic-ass b****es
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: trdl23

trdl23
4 weeks ago#55
Tirion Fordring ain't no basic-ass b****
E come vivo? Vivo!

User Info: Johnbobb

Johnbobb
4 weeks ago#56
yeah Logan the film is pretty bad for evidence of his abilities

but the thing is, I actually initially proposed Wolverine as a high 5. He was bumped up to a 6 because the general consensus is that he's too hard to kill to be a 5.

Like he just can't be a 4. His absolute worst showing is being very temporarily stunned, after being shot in the head, while standing still and actively trying to avoid combat. If you average that with "surviving a nuke," that doesn't get you a 4. And in his worst showings, he still doesn't die, or get anywhere close to dying. He's temporarily stunned at worst. Almost no one in the 4/week tier is able to kill or ultimately disable him (and no, being stunned for 1 minute is not an insta-KO; if so we really need to re-evaluate a lot of abilities)

so hypothetical situation:
You give Wolverine bare minimum respect and say a gunner knocks him out for a minute. Then what? They try to shoot him again, he wakes up and kills them. They do nothing, he wakes up and kills them?

Like Deadpool losing his head and being out of service for 24 hours or more while it regenerates? Sure, that's a KO. Being temporarily stunned like the equivalent of being hit by a strong flashbang? That's not a KO. That doesn't end a fight. If he's still able to get up and attack again, it's not a loss, and that's what keeps Wolverine so effective here.
Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar
PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs

User Info: Johnbobb

Johnbobb
4 weeks ago#57
oh what the hell the whole conversation changed while I was writing my post
Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar
PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs

User Info: KanzarisKelshen

KanzarisKelshen
4 weeks ago#58
trdl23 posted...
Tirion Fordring ain't no basic-ass b****


Yeah, he isn't. Dude is legit and I think he'd make a solid 4, maybe 5.
Johnbobb posted...
yeah Logan the film is pretty bad for evidence of his abilities

but the thing is, I actually initially proposed Wolverine as a high 5. He was bumped up to a 6 because the general consensus is that he's too hard to kill to be a 5.

Like he just can't be a 4. His absolute worst showing is being very temporarily stunned, after being shot in the head, while standing still and actively trying to avoid combat. If you average that with "surviving a nuke," that doesn't get you a 4. And in his worst showings, he still doesn't die, or get anywhere close to dying. He's temporarily stunned at worst. Almost no one in the 4/week tier is able to kill or ultimately disable him (and no, being stunned for 1 minute is not an insta-KO; if so we really need to re-evaluate a lot of abilities)

so hypothetical situation:
You give Wolverine bare minimum respect and say a gunner knocks him out for a minute. Then what? They try to shoot him again, he wakes up and kills them. They do nothing, he wakes up and kills them?

Like Deadpool losing his head and being out of service for 24 hours or more while it regenerates? Sure, that's a KO. Being temporarily stunned like the equivalent of being hit by a strong flashbang? That's not a KO. That doesn't end a fight. If he's still able to get up and attack again, it's not a loss, and that's what keeps Wolverine so effective here.


Thing is that any version of Wolverine can and should have 'but he doesn't need to be defeated to win the battle' because otherwise s*** gets stupid

When you consider that, it becomes questionable if he's more than a 4
Shine on, you crazy diamond.

User Info: DeathChicken

DeathChicken
4 weeks ago#59
I feel like if anyone in those movies just kept hitting his ass while he was taking a nap from a bullet or being an arrow pincushion or a shotgun to the face he probably would die, but there's no telling because everyone just lets him go "I laid here and healed for awhile, lol"
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

User Info: Johnbobb

Johnbobb
4 weeks ago#60
KanzarisKelshen posted...
Thing is that any version of Wolverine can and should have 'but he doesn't need to be defeated to win the battle' because otherwise s*** gets stupid

When you consider that, it becomes questionable if he's more than a 4

I disagree. I think there's a good handful of high tier mercs that can defeat him. He can die to magic, to drowning, to poison (do we have any poison-using mercs?) etc. He's very, very difficult to kill, but that's like his whole thing. Saying he doesn't need to be defeated is way too big of a nerf.

Again, I think Deadpool's the best example for comparison. Deadpool can't necessarily be killed, but he can still be defeated by being rendered unable to fight for the extent of the battle. That should also apply to people like Wolverine (but not under the idea that a brief stun is considered "defeat")
Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar
PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs
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