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Anywhere to still get Warcraft 2 legitimately?

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User Info: ArgentumVir

3 years ago#61
KillerTruffle posted...
... And regardless of legality of used game sales, that is still simply a red herring to distract from the fact that piracy *is* illegal.

What is there to distract from? The black and white of it is that copyright infringement is illegal, and has been for quite some time. No one is arguing against its legality, but the "damages" that it supposedly causes are questionable whereas the "damages" that used games cause is a study-able phenomenon. Both used games, and piracy are also beneficial to the industry in many unique ways.
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User Info: Worknofun370

3 years ago#62
KillerTruffle posted...
ArgentumVir posted...
Technically it still is (which is the key word here). Just because a legally binding document doesn't always hold up in court, doesn't make it legal. One day, that may change (God help us if it does).

You're going to have a hard time proving that it's even a legally binding document. Courts have ruled more than once that a customer cannot be bound to any contract which they cannot thoroughly review first. Not being able to review the EULA until after performing the action that indicates you accept the EULA pretty much invalidates its legality. Inclusion of terms that violate consumer protection laws also invalidates it.

Unfortunately, the ruling in the BnetD case set a precedent that the EULA CAN be upheld in court. It's admittedly been years since I read into the exact wording if it's a legally binding document or not, but if memory serves I believe it states almost exactly that.

User Info: Skul_

3 years ago#63
KillerTruffle posted...
DaedalusEx posted...
KillerTruffle posted...
No, that's an excuse pirates came up with to try and feel better about themselves. Just a load of crap.

What is the difference between not giving money to the developer and not giving money to the developer?

Straw man. What's the difference between directly transferring one copy physically to a new person and using one copy to make one million copies to spread to any number of people who want it simultaneously? Pretty damn big.

No its pretty damn small when said item isnt being sold by the developer anymore.
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User Info: Slayn

3 years ago#64
Man this topic got real stupid, real quick.

Personally, I am against piracy. I spend a lot of money on movies and games, because it is "honest" and I like to support the industry because I love video games. If i like a game, I want them to make more.

Having said that, one of the leading causes of piracy is unavailability. Sometimes software isn't being made anymore. You have to resort to ebay to find said item. WC2 is a perfect example. Pirating the game generally causes Blizzard no harm, because they aren't making the game anymore. Same discussion happens on the 3ds boards. People want Gameboy Advance games released digitally, but Nintendo is slacking.

In both cases though piracy does effect it, because if there is not enough of a demand ( many people pirated X software ) then they will not be motivated to re-release it. Also the companies can potentially make even better versions, such as allowing higher resolutions. Either way, although I do not advocate piracy, I really wouldn't feel too bad if someone pirated a game that the developer chooses to no longer produce.
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User Info: 32x2z

3 years ago#65
I don't advocate pirating either. My opinion though is the developer is absolutely not receiving any money from a used copy being sold. Even then if it's from a nearly 20 year old game, that is not in development, and is not receiving support from the creators and said company, then pirating doesn't truly make a difference. I don't advocate it though, it is illegal and theft. Fact is fact though pirating it and buying it used means nothing in the end for this specific scenario. It may as well be freeware like a good portion of older DoS games.

User Info: Jaghave

3 years ago#66
KillerTruffle posted...
ArgentumVir posted...
-CJF- posted...
I'm sure used game sales have a similar effect to piracy on the developer. The difference is that one is legal and the other isn't. Corporations would just as soon take away your right to resale games if they could, and that may soon happen now that digital sales are becoming so prevalent.

I won't post my own complex views on the issue, at least as to it being right or wrong since everyone has their own opinions on the matter, but I will say that piracy is not theft, it's copyright infringement. Even the courts and most copyright holders acknowledge this as fact.

Technically used games aren't actually legal. according to the license, it's non-transferable.

The EULA rarely holds up as a true legal document, in part because you cannot agree to it until you read it, and you cannot read it until you open the game, but opening the game constitutes agreement with the EULA. That sort of catch-22 doesn't stand up well in court.

You're right - we can't really prove *exactly* how much of a negative effect piracy has on the industry, or how widespread it truly is given all the different channels it can happen. Which makes me wonder how you can have even the slightest bit of foundation to your claim that "second hand sales are much bigger numbers than piracy." What we do know is that piracy happens on the order of hundreds of thousands or even millions at minimum, and having had personal exposure to both the used sale industry as well as piracy, I seriously have no idea where you come up with your claim.

EULA is a load of BS and I already called blizzard on it and won.
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User Info: codyorr

3 years ago#67
Luckily I still have my Warcraft 2: Tides of Darkness CD.

User Info: sonofliber

3 years ago#68
DaedalusEx posted...
KillerTruffle posted...
If piracy were simply not an option - didn't exist - some of those pirates would just not play the games, but I guarantee it would increase the number of people actually buying the games legitimately by a good bit.

If piracy wasn't an option it would undoubtedly increase sales.

And in the same way, so would there be an increase in sales if used games weren't an option. Likely a bigger increase per capita, since those who would've purchased a used game have demonstrated they are willing to pay for that game.

But the final result for both is the same; you end up with a product without compensating the company that spent money creating that product. That is why piracy is demonized, is it not? Seems entirely foolish to demonize one and not the other.

At some point you're going to have to assert that piracy is morally wrong, because underneath it all that is the foundation of your thinking.

He is just saying thing without any sort of back up, if you do research there are studies saying that pirate later buy the stuff they pirate (hell there was this post in paradox studios where basically half of them pirated the game first and now they are legal owners) which doesnt happen with second hand gaming you already gave your money away so why would you buy another one from the developers?

You forgot the best part than later used games owner act all angry when developers go out of business or act like they support the developers by giving money to someone that didnt had anything to do with the game.

Also i would recomend people to check which seccion in gamestop is making the mosr money
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