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Gamesindustry.biz Sr. Editor quits Steam over Valve's inaction with hate speech

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User Info: DaedalusEx

DaedalusEx
4 weeks ago#161
Your argument is incoherent. What is hypocritical about my position?

User Info: jakisthe

jakisthe
4 weeks ago#162
Well, you claim to be opposed to censorship, but then don't understand what a chilling effect is - and as long as one side can definitively claim that they've been censored legally, then that's the only thing that matters, and lets ignore every other effect. CS is left to the winds to fend for itself, but PDP must be defended at all costs, even though what happened to them - on the broad level - is similar, and both "sides" took actions with the means they had. You seem to be opposed to some actions (as long as they contain that scaaaaary buzzword) but ok with others, even if the broad concept is similar but the exact minutea is incomparable. Is anyone breaking the rules of the system here? No? Is it specifically illegal for CS to do what they did - as in, would they face consequences, or would their case just not hold up? Is it specifically illegal for review bombs to happen? Or are you drawing a line in the sand based on your morals which just so happen to fall in line with the political actions of the side you just so happen to agree with?
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User Info: AlleRacing

AlleRacing
4 weeks ago#163
jakisthe posted...
Well, you claim to be opposed to censorship, but then don't understand what a chilling effect is -


I understand, but I think you're misapplying it here. People opposed to false copyright claims and voicing that criticism is in no way comparable to censorship. A better solution would have been for the company to distance itself with PewdiePie if they disagreed with his views. Attempting to obliterate association via censorship is very definitely the wrong way to go about it.

and as long as one side can definitively claim that they've been censored legally, then that's the only thing that matters, and lets ignore every other effect.


Just because we don't think the two are equivalent does not mean we're ignoring the effects of mass poor reviews. Reviews often drive sales, low reviews can hurt sales, the company may make less money because of this. Is it going to affect their decision to use copyright strikes against legitimate videos in the future? Possibly. But that is not censorship.

CS is left to the winds to fend for itself, but PDP must be defended at all costs,


I'm not remotely defending PewdiePie. I don't like his videos and he decided to stop making videos tomorrow, it would not bother me. Also, Campo Santo doesn't seem to be left to the winds, you're here, after all.

even though what happened to them - on the broad level - is similar, and both "sides" took actions with the means they had.


Not really all that similar, unless you take similar to mean "both took a potential financial and popularity loss". One is very clearly in the wrong, making a claim it knows not to be true in order to remove a legitimate video (that probably helped them financially, let's be honest) in order to distance itself from someone who said some words they don't want to be associate with. Now, it's completely fair that Campo Santo doesn't want to be associated with PewdiePie any longer, and they are free to release a statement, blog, video, etc. saying as much. Making a copyright claim against his account is a very wrong way to do that, and the response to it was a far more appropriate way to voice criticism of that wrong decision.
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User Info: DaedalusEx

DaedalusEx
4 weeks ago#164
jakisthe posted...
CS is left to the winds to fend for itself, but PDP must be defended at all costs, even though what happened to them - on the broad level - is similar


You can equate anything if you broaden the concept enough, but it's not meaningful. Were both sides of WWII equivalent because they were both fighting for their own interests?

The effects of consumers expressing themselves is not similar to legal abuse in any meaningful sense.

Or are you drawing a line in the sand based on your morals which just so happen to fall in line with the political actions of the side you just so happen to agree with?


This has nothing to do with being partisan. If CS had filed the DMCA because PewDiePie said the antithesis of the N-word, whatever that may be, and similar actions were taken from the other side I would be arguing the same position I am now.

User Info: Bleu_Skie

Bleu_Skie
4 weeks ago#165
tzuyd posted...
Bleu_Skie posted...
^I'm sure you think you made some great points. (I don't have the patience to reply to all of that. Just assume I disagree and/or smh at most of your logical leaps)

Thank you for at least admitting that
1) They were logical
2) You were unreasonably triggered (re: smh)
3) You have no argument to make

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you 'agree to disagree', without creating more Nazis.

My god, you sure do love to assume a lot dont you? Too bad I'm not the sort who feels the need to correct them. Sorry.

Edit: btw, you also might want to look up the defintion of logical leap.

DarkZV2Beta posted...
They aren't wrong, though. If you give up your freedom, how are you going to maintain your security? Ask the people you gave everything to to kindly keep you safe when you have nothing left to offer them?
Telling people not to say mean words isn't going to prevent violence. Proper education is.

They arent right tho either. Quotes aren't a basis for argument. That guy once said something so I'm right sounds silly doesn't it? Do you actually want me to drop a bunch of famous quotes or something?

You arent free to do as you please. There are laws, order, and safety to govern that freedom. One without the other is useless.

And lol at proper education.
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It's important to know what the rules are first, so that, when you decide to break them, you can better judge the effect.

User Info: Tyranius2

Tyranius2
4 weeks ago#166
jakisthe posted...
Right. And people abused a system of rating a game for their own ends; to silence those they disagreed with. So it goes. Either you're ok with both sides taking actions they feel are correct for the situation, or you're ok with neither of them.


They use reviews because it's the ONLY venue gamers have to get themselves heard by a developer. It's not any attempt to silence the developer, it's just gamers saying "you see that s***ty thing you did? We don't like it."
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User Info: kblaze13

kblaze13
4 weeks ago#167
Tyranius2 posted...


They use reviews because it's the ONLY venue gamers have to get themselves heard by a developer. It's not any attempt to silence the developer, it's just gamers saying "you see that s***ty thing you did? We don't like it."
Iightningz posted...
I hate Lightning.

User Info: DarkZV2Beta

DarkZV2Beta
4 weeks ago#168
Death_Born posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
Randomly blurting out a "naughty word" isn't hate speech.


One does not simply randomly blurt out that word. It's just not something people do if they have any sense of rational reality and self control. Randomly blurting something out implies you've said it so many times it's become second nature. So either he has said the word many times before as an insult - in which case, he's a racist - or he consciously chose to say that word, in which case it's also a racist.

Or, he said a "naughty word" because anyone with any sense can realize that, in fact, words have no meaning beyond what they're assigned by the listener, and therefore the idea of a "naughty word" that offends people by virtue of it's use is absolutely ridiculous in and of it's self.
Or, hey, maybe he said it because he thought it would be funny. IDFK, I don't watch those videos. It could be racist, too, but that's not the only possibility, and the idea that saying random "naughty words" should be equated to actually suggesting racial subjugation only serves to undermine the rights and values of those races.

Bleu_Skie posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
They aren't wrong, though. If you give up your freedom, how are you going to maintain your security? Ask the people you gave everything to to kindly keep you safe when you have nothing left to offer them?
Telling people not to say mean words isn't going to prevent violence. Proper education is.

They arent right tho either. Quotes aren't a basis for argument. That guy once said something so I'm right sounds silly doesn't it? Do you actually want me to drop a bunch of famous quotes or something?

You arent free to do as you please. There are laws, order, and safety to govern that freedom. One without the other is useless.

And lol at proper education.

And having no actual response to the presented issue isn't a basis for a counterargument.
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Anything that has 3p fps or better is fine with me -mucloud

User Info: Bleu_Skie

Bleu_Skie
4 weeks ago#169
^I responded to two out of three things you mentioned. If you count my lol, then I responded to all of them. Was I not clear? Let me try again.

"They aren't wrong, though."
Opinon based on nothing. No need to dispute it.

"If you give up your freedom, how are you going to maintain your security?"

That is a stupid phrase which I answered mulitple times. Just flip it. If you give up security, how are you going to maintain your freedom? You need both, which I've said mulitple times.

"Telling people not to say mean words isn't going to prevent violence. Proper education is."

I lol'd because this actually makes no sense. Where are you getting this proper education? Are the people giving this proper education perhaps telling people not to say mean words in your mind? Do you think most protesters (either side) are uneducated? Like I said, made no sense. Feel free to elaborate.

I hope I was clear this time.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/BleuSkie
It's important to know what the rules are first, so that, when you decide to break them, you can better judge the effect.

User Info: DarkZV2Beta

DarkZV2Beta
4 weeks ago#170
A proper education will allow people to understand the concept that those mean words are just words. Violence is something people resort to when they can't understand something, but don't like it, and can't understand why.
a quad core i7 was just a rebranded celeron -Pengu1n
Anything that has 3p fps or better is fine with me -mucloud
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